Klipsch RF-82 vs Axiom M80

[bdpf]

Hi everyone,

I am trying to build my first home theater and I need some opinions from you people that are more experienced than me.

I have been listening to some speakers (not many but some …) from Infinity, Energy, Polk and Klipsch. I find myself liking more dynamic speakers like Polk and Klipsch over Infinity and Energy. I auditioned the Klipsch RF-82 and the Polk RTiA7 side by side. Both are nice speakers, but I thought the RF-82 were slightly lacking of mid-range compared to the RTiA7 and even the bass was not really there which really surprised me considering the 2 x 8’’ woofers so I think that it might have been something wrong with the setup and will go back to listen again. On the other hand, I just loved the 82’s high frequencies and the dynamics and soundstage that it creates. They envelop you and make the music come to life. They are really good speakers.

Going back to my HT, I am trying to build a system under $3000 that would be good for 2ch stereo listening as well as HT. I listen to pretty much any type of music (Rap, RnB, Techno, Rock, Orchestra…) and would probably use the speakers for 60% movies / 40% music. Right now I live in an apartment but am moving to my new home in March. My room will then be 20’’x 11’’ with hardwood floor, no furniture except the couches and a coffee table.
The front towers that I like the most will determine which system I will get. Here are the 2 systems that I am considering:
1) Klipsch: 2 x RF-82, 1x RC-62, 2 x RS-52
2) Axiom: 2 x M80, 1 x VP150, 2 x QS8

For the subs, I was considering the RW-12D for Klipsch and EP350 for Axiom, however I noticed that both Klipsch and Axiom owners like to pair their system with other brand subs like HSU, SVS and AVR123 as they say you get more for the money. Any recommendation on a sub of $700 or less better that the 2 mentioned?

I also haven’t decided on the receiver. Any suggestions (the cheaper the better)?

The M80s are 4 ohms vs 8 ohms for the 82s. Does that change anything sound wise? Does it mean that I need less power to drive them or more?

Is it fair to compare the M80s to the RF-82s or should they be more compared to the RF-63s (in terms of quality of sound, not looks)

I like much more the look of the Klipsch over the Axiom but sound has nothing to do with looks. I have read nothing but good reviews on the Axioms, that they have very good highs and lows and excellent mids. For the Klipsch, the only negatives that I read are how they sound harsh and bright, and how they lack a little bit of mids. Personally I like the way the horns sound very much so I disagree with the first comment, but I kind of agree about the mids (at least for the 82s).

Will the M80 provide the same dynamic feel and wide sound stage as the 82 do but with better mids and lows?

The ultimate test will be for me to listen to the Axiom and eventually I will. However it will be very hard, at least for me, to compare them if they are not side by side. The 82s already sound good to me, what if the Axiom also sound good to me, how can I remember which one sounds better !?!?

Also, I only listened to the 82s in stereo, how will the center and surrounds compare?

I know that some people just don't like Klipsch because of the horns but I like this sound (at least fro the 30 min or so that I listened to it) and don't find it to be a negative point. I am looking for honest and truthful opinions of people that possibly owned or heard both and picked one over the other and why.

Thank you very much for your help.

Bruno

 

[MinusTheBear]

I have never listened to the M80's or the RF-82, but I havel listened to other models of speakers of each of these brands and always liked the sound of the Axioms better. If I had a choice between the two I would pick the Axiom M80's. However we all have different tastes, audition both if you can and pick the the speakers you like better. Maybe if you go out and audition more speakers maybe neither of these will be your final choice.

 

[zhimbo]

I also haven’t decided on the receiver. Any suggestions (the cheaper the better)?

The M80s are 4 ohms vs 8 ohms for the 82s. Does that change anything sound wise? Does it mean that I need less power to drive them or more?

If you don't want to spend much on the reciever, you may want to skip the M80s - either for the Klipsch or for the 8ohm Axiom M60s. Axiom will give recommendations and advice on brands/models of recievers that will be stable with the M80s.

 

[fredk]

I havn't listened to the Klipsch, but I sure love my M80s. I listened to some Bach cello suites today and they did a great job on reproducing the detail and richness of the instrument. Thats all mids.

If I were you, I would audition the M80s for starters to see how you like them. If you do, order the M80s and arrange for an in home demo of the Klipsch so you can do a direct comparison. Since you live in Toronto, shipping back to Axiom, if you decide you like Klipsch better, will be minimal.

It will be worth the effort to satisfy yourself that you got the best speakers for you.

 

[bdpf]

Are the receiver capable to drive 4 ohms that much more expensive? and what does exactly 4 ohms impedance means sound or power wise?

Thanks

B

 

[bdpf]

Minus,
In a few threads I read that Klipsch would be better for HT when Axiom would be better for music. Since you have heard both, I would really like to have your opinion on that.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Like I mentioned before I have not heard either of these speakers that you are buying but I have listened to different models of each of these brands. I have listened to klipsch speakers but only with music. The axioms I have heard both (since I own the M3's and QS4's). The Axiom QS8's are amazing surround speakers, I would be hard pressed if Klipsch could match those for home theatre. Audioholics did an indepth review of the Axiom System you are thinking about buying, this will provide you with an indepth review and lots of information on the home theatre capabilities of this system.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/axiom-audio-epic-80

 

[rnatalli]

I've heard pretty much every current model Axiom out there, but not all Klipsch, but each brand has a pretty clear personality. The Axioms are certainly more balanced from top to bottom. A bit forward in the high-end, but not so much like the Klipschs. The mid-range is certainly more detailed and fuller with Axioms. I'd say Klipsch speakers in general are a bit more dynamic than Axioms. Both brands are known for their ability to play very loud without strain. Those are my general impressions.

 

[larry7995]

I bought the M80s and I like them a lot, I have a yamaha rxv1500 receiver and decided to get a pair of 4 ohm friendly monoblock amps from outlaw for the M80s. You might also look av123, they have some nice speaker offerings that aren't too expensive. I haven't gotten a decent sub yet but I am saving $100 every payday for it. Tending towards a Seaton Submersive that is $2000.

 

[fredk]

Are the receiver capable to drive 4 ohms that much more expensive? and what does exactly 4 ohms impedance means sound or power wise?

It seems that it is the more expensive brands that consistantly drive 4ohm speakers without issue. Brands like Denon Harmon Karden, Sherwood Newcastle, Maranz.

You might look into Sherwood Newcastle. They are pricey in Canada, but I have heard they are much lower in price in the US.

I suspect it has to do with the quality of the components in the power supply section, but I don't know much about electrical theory. Hopefully someone else will jump in.

You will be good with 100wpc unless you like to listen to music very loud all the time.

 

[bdpf]

Rnatalli, thanks for your input. I am glad to hear that the Axiom are a bit forward as well. I definately don't like speakers that are too warm. I need them to have a bit of punch and life

 

[bdpf]

It seems that it is the more expensive brands that consistantly drive 4ohm speakers without issue. Brands like Denon Harmon Karden, Sherwood Newcastle, Maranz.

You might look into Sherwood Newcastle. They are pricey in Canada, but I have heard they are much lower in price in the US.

I suspect it has to do with the quality of the components in the power supply section, but I don't know much about electrical theory. Hopefully someone else will jump in.

You will be good with 100wpc unless you like to listen to music very loud all the time.

Thanks for the info.

 

[rnatalli]

Check out RBH and Mordaunt-Short as well as you may like how they sound.

 

[armaraas]

I have about a 4 year old Harman Kardon AVR235, nothing too fancy, 55 watts x 7 (probably 65 wpc in stereo), cost about $350 new. I had the Axiom M80's in house to compare for a couple of weeks to another brand. I ended up not keeping them so I can't offer a real in depth analysis, but I did like them quite a bit. I had no problems driving them with my receiver for stereo music. I listened to them mostly at normal levels ~75db, but cranked them a few times to over 100db for a couple of minutes and receiver was fine. Of course if I kept it that loud for 20 or 30 minutes maybe it would have been different, but I would think you would be okay with a solid, reputable brand receiver that isn't overly expensive. You could always plan on not spending a ton on a receiver now and save some money to add mono blocks as others have suggested. Just make sure you have a receiver that has pre-outs...

Axiom does have a pretty easy return policy, so you could always order them and demo them for a couple of weeks on your equipment to see how they do.

 

[fredk]

Thats interesting to hear armaraas. I did a quick check on an online calculator and at a distance of 9' at 75db you are drawing about 9watts. That takes into account room gain and 10db of headroom for dynamics.

At 95db you would be using 90w. At 71w power usage at 100db you get a miserly 4db of headroom (plenty for todays ultra compressed music .

I would say that you were probably getting a little clipping at 100db and that your amp would have, as you wrote, gotten warm with extended use. I also bet it was delivering more than 65w given that you would have been below 8ohms.

 

[armaraas]

Yah, I'm sure the receiver was putting out more than 65 watts because of the 4 ohm load, but I have no way of measuring. I checked the manual and they only provide ratings for 8 ohm. I checked a bunch of other newer manuals for HK's and they do not show anything other than 8 ohm either. Apparently that is all they publish. For the truly unscientific approach the only 4 ohm measurements I could find were for the previous years model and higher end AVR630, they measured about 84 watts under .1% distortion into 8 ohm and 146 watts into 4 ohm for stereo. Not that that guarantees anything with my receiver.

I'm sure Axiom can make some recommendations too for what receivers will handle the M80's.

As a side note, I was comparing the power consumption for my 235 and the brand new 254. My 235- 118 watts idle, 890 maximum. The 254- 65 watt idle and 540 maximum. The ratings per channel are the same, 65 wpc for stereo, 50 x 7. I may need to start a new thread for this, but did they just get that much more efficient???

 

[cheapskete OCer]

The mid-range is certainly more detailed and fuller with Axioms. I'd say Klipsch speakers in general are a bit more dynamic than Axioms. Those are my general impressions.

what exactly do you mean by that? the axioms more detailed and fuller yet the klipsch are more dynamic?

 

[bdpf]

You could always plan on not spending a ton on a receiver now and save some money to add mono blocks as others have suggested. Just make sure you have a receiver that has pre-outs...

What are mono blocks and why do I need a receiver with pre-outs?

 

[Haoleb]

What are mono blocks and why do I need a receiver with pre-outs?

Mono blocks are mono power amplifiers. You would need preamp outputs because if you were going to use an outboard amplifier such as mono blocks you need to be able to feed it the proper signal which is output from said preamp outputs. Going this route allows you to get a cheaper reciever that wont have as good of an amplifier section but will still allow you to have the features that come with a reciever. Because you would be powering the speakers (the M80's at least) with a better, beefier amplifier that can handle their 4ohm load.

 

[rnatalli]

what exactly do you mean by that? the axioms more detailed and fuller yet the klipsch are more dynamic?

I wouldn't say Axioms are more detailed on top, but I find the mid-range comes through better on Axioms. Klipsch are tough to beat when it comes to dynamics.