RBH T-1 or 661-SE/R

[merwine]

Has anyone heard both of these side by side? I have auditioned both of them although in different places. I plan on putting together a 7.1 set up with my existing JL f112. It will be mostly for HT and a little music. Any opinions?

 

[nova]

T-1 is a great speaker, much more,...dynamic than the 661. If you have the room (T-1 needs a lot of space) and the money, and they performed up to your expectation during your audition,... I'd say the T-1 is a no brainer.

Something else to think about with the T-1,... if you are not getting the T-2, it may be difficult to find a large enough and stable enough stand for the T-1 ???

 

[merwine]

Ok so those of you who are actually have the T-1's, what center channel are you using? I would love to use another T-1 but i don't really have the space for it. Would something like the 661 be ok? Would it have and problem keeping up with the much larger T-1?

 

[nova]

Sorry, I have not heard them side by side,... I did listen to the T-2 set-up and 661-SE one day (and just about everything else) when was at the the RBH facility. FWIW I ended up with a pr. of 1266-SE, a 661-SE and a pr of 66-SE.

 

[merwine]

What made you go with the 661-SE over the T-1? Also how do you like the 661 as a center channel as that is what I would go with?

 

[nova]

I went with 1266-SE not 661-SE over the T-1 and that was due to cost and the size of my room and the 1266-SE was the best I'd heard other than the T-2. The 661-SE is a very good center channel speaker, and I hear the SE/R is even better, blends very well with the 1266-SE.

 

[merwine]

Thanks for the input. It sounds like I will go with the T-1's for my mains and listen to them for a while until I figure out what to do for a center channel.

 

[thrang]

I'm in the same boat right now...I'm looking at moving from a DefTech setup (Mythos ST's L/R, CLR 2500 Center, BPVX/P sides and BPVX rear surrounds; JL Audio Fathom 113 stays..)

My room size is 24 long by 17 wife by 10 high, and I'm debating three three options:

1- 661-SE/R LCR
2- T1 LCR
3- T1/R LCR

surrounds will be determined later, most likely 66SE/R Sides and SI-760SE/R rears

Listening is almost exclusively movies/sports - almost no music

I'm actually listening to a borrowed paid of 661-LSE - L/R only, so it's hard to gauge an overall complete HT experience, and I am thus, ironically, listening to some two channel material to perform some evaluation. The speaker is effortless, and less bright than the Mythos ST's in a good way to me, but the ST's suprisingly hold their ground.

So if I do decide to upgrade, am I better with the reference drivers-crossover but lesser dynamics on the smaller 661, or the better dynamics but lesser quality drivers-crossover on the T-1? Yeah, I know I put option three, but that's just wishful thinking....or I could have my arm twisted and rethink the budget. I just frankly don't want to spend money that's not necessary

From a volumetric perspective, I'm thinking the T-1's, though the 661'a/JL 113 combo are doing a pretty good job in the room right now. My concern is that I've heard from some that the standard T-1 can be a tad bright, which my set-up doesn't need...

I'm using an Onkyo 905 AVR, pre-out to an Earthquake Cinenova Grand 7 300 wpc amp. I will cross the speakers at 70 or 80, based on my past experiences with SMS-1 tweaks/room conditions.

I've heard the T-1's at a dealer and was impressed, but frankly it was not at all an optimal setup, and not even a full surround experience, and finally, with it not being in my room nor having any other RBH speakers to compare to, I couldn't evaluate "brightness" question. I've called RBH, and there's no one in my area that can actually demo both for me, so I'm seeking some opinions based on my conditions and desires

Thanks

 

[gene]

Having extensive experience with all of the RBH speakers mentioned here, I'd almost recommend 3 x 661-SE/Rs up front unless you go with T2s or manage to integrate the T1s into a nice bookshelf/cabinet. IMO they look odd sitting on a speaker stand. The 661-SE and 661-SE/Rs are quite competent speakers but the T1/2s will definately throw off a larger, slightly less focused soundstage and you do need to be at least 8 ft from them for proper acoustical summation.

Personally, I'd go with T2s running full range and using the JL sub as a dedicated sub in your system. I did similar for years with great success.

I have done installs with T2's mains and 661-SE for center and it worked out just fine. You can also consider their 6100 as a center if you have the width to accomodate it.

I hope this helps.

 

[majorloser]

What? Not recommending the T-3's? (you're slacking Gene)

But seriously, what about the T-30LSE? One cabinet vs. two.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/rbh-t-30lse

 

[thrang]

Having extensive experience with all of the RBH speakers mentioned here, I'd almost recommend 3 x 661-SE/Rs up front unless you go with T2s or manage to integrate the T1s into a nice bookshelf/cabinet. IMO they look odd sitting on a speaker stand. The 661-SE and 661-SE/Rs are quite competent speakers but the T1/2s will definately throw off a larger, slightly less focused soundstage and you do need to be at least 8 ft from them for proper acoustical summation.

Personally, I'd go with T2s running full range and using the JL sub as a dedicated sub in your system. I did similar for years with great success.

I have done installs with T2's mains and 661-SE for center and it worked out just fine. You can also consider their 6100 as a center if you have the width to accomodate it.

I hope this helps.

Gene

Thanks for the feedback

In terms of the T-1's, I am contemplating building custom bases out of MDF, and painting or covering with fabric. Alternatively, when I buy a second Fathom, I could, with proper rubber/foam pad to sit between them, use the 113's as the bases. Here's how things look in the front now...

The space where the center is now is actually wide enough for a third T-1 - I just need to lower the shelf. RBH said it should not be an issue placing the T-1 there, as long as the face of the speaker protrudes past the cabinet, which it would by a few inches.

I sit back about 12 feet from the front speakers.

The 6100 just wont fit unfortunately, and since they aren't offering it standard black right now, it's fairly costly.

When you talk of running fill range T2-N, you mean as a non-amplified full range? What you you typically cross that over at? If I'm crossing at 70 or 80, am I not "missing" most of the benefit of the 1010's?

Getting back to the heart of your original 661-SE/R recommendation: is it more from your like of the improved driver/crossovers of the R line, or that you think the T-1 non-reference components are more than fine, but the approach I suggested might not fit the room well?

You also kind of read my mind as I thought of a fourth option - T-1/R Left and right, and a 661-SE/R center. RBH felt the 661 wouldn't be able to keep up with the T cabinets/drivers, but you are the second or third person I've heard indicate that that combination sounded quite good - no timbre issues with the different number of drivers on the T's vs.s the 661?

 

[InTheIndustry]

My company recently did a system for another forum member where we used the T-30LSE & 6100-SE/R for the front 3. It's an excellent system that provides a great great deal of force. It's a very clear, forceful, and impressive system all around.

Gene, however, hit the nail on the head in suggesting the 661-SE/R for your front 3. In your room: There's not a real great "need" to do the T-1. I can't think of a many instances where I would really prescribe it. For what it does, it's just really really similar to the smaller 661-SE.

Thrang: I think you'll get great results with the 661-SE/R. If you do decide on the T-1, then the either the 661-SE or 6100-SE would be the ideal centers & should have no issues sonically matching. Looking at your room, the 661-SE/R would be an excellent piece to go with.

I hope this helps. Enjoy your systems!

 

[thrang]

My company recently did a system for another forum member where we used the T-30LSE & 6100-SE/R for the front 3. It's an excellent system that provides a great great deal of force. It's a very clear, forceful, and impressive system all around.

Gene, however, hit the nail on the head in suggesting the 661-SE/R for your front 3. In your room: There's not a real great "need" to do the T-1. I can't think of a many instances where I would really prescribe it. For what it does, it's just really really similar to the smaller 661-SE.

Thrang: I think you'll get great results with the 661-SE/R. If you do decide on the T-1, then the either the 661-SE or 6100-SE would be the ideal centers & should have no issues sonically matching. Looking at your room, the 661-SE/R would be an excellent piece to go with.

I hope this helps. Enjoy your systems!

Thanks very much for this - so in essence, it sounds as though you don't believe I'd be sacrificing too much in terms of dynamics with the 661 vs the T1 given my setup...

It's also good to know that the 661 would work well as a center for T-1's

Regarding the surrounds - I've heard conflicting options about doing the R version the surrounds, even if doing R's up front, providing listening is primarily movies and not multichannel audio. Am I asking for timbre match issues going with non-reference surrounds with reference up front, or is the assessment that for movie/sports usage, the mix is fine...?

Thanks

 

[InTheIndustry]

Thanks very much for this - so in essence, it sounds as though you don't believe I'd be sacrificing too much in terms of dynamics with the 661 vs the T1 given my setup...

It's also good to know that the 661 would work well as a center for T-1's

Regarding the surrounds - I've heard conflicting options about doing the R version the surrounds, even if doing R's up front, providing listening is primarily movies and not multichannel audio. Am I asking for timbre match issues going with non-reference surrounds with reference up front, or is the assessment that for movie/sports usage, the mix is fine...?

Thanks

Correct: Given your setup, I don't think you'll be missing out by going with the 661 instead of the T1.

You absolutely WILL find varying opinions on the matter of matching surrounds or not.

I prefer to look at it in terms of best-case-scenario and then, if budget won't allow that, work down & make changes from there. Best case = Matching all of your speakers unless there is a technological or installation NEED to use something different. Arbitrarily choosing to go with something other than voice matched rears is typically a budgetary decision.

That being said, in the case of the RBH SE vs. the SE/R, I would tell you that there's not a night & day difference between them. At high SPL's, sure. But at typical listening volumes for a family room (please understand that I still mean LOUD volumes), not really. Keep in mind the application of a rear surround speaker and what the demands on it are(not). You really aren't going to get a lot of demanding low frequencies back there, so the fact that the tweeter, cabinet, etc. matches means that the sound from the two will be very very close during real world use.

I stand by the idea that voice matching a speaker system whenever possible is "BEST". In the case of the RBH SE vs. SE/R, however, the differences will be very slight & potentially audible only during certain instances in playback of some material. They're awfully close.

 

[thrang]

Correct: Given your setup, I don't think you'll be missing out by going with the 661 instead of the T1.

You absolutely WILL find varying opinions on the matter of matching surrounds or not.

I prefer to look at it in terms of best-case-scenario and then, if budget won't allow that, work down & make changes from there. Best case = Matching all of your speakers unless there is a technological or installation NEED to use something different. Arbitrarily choosing to go with something other than voice matched rears is typically a budgetary decision.

That being said, in the case of the RBH SE vs. the SE/R, I would tell you that there's not a night & day difference between them. At high SPL's, sure. But at typical listening volumes for a family room (please understand that I still mean LOUD volumes), not really. Keep in mind the application of a rear surround speaker and what the demands on it are(not). You really aren't going to get a lot of demanding low frequencies back there, so the fact that the tweeter, cabinet, etc. matches means that the sound from the two will be very very close during real world use.

I stand by the idea that voice matching a speaker system whenever possible is "BEST". In the case of the RBH SE vs. SE/R, however, the differences will be very slight & potentially audible only during certain instances in playback of some material. They're awfully close.

Is your opinion of the similarity between the SE and SE/R lines (at typical volume levels) directed at their use as surrounds, or mains as well? Meaning at typical volume levels (I would say that during most movies, I'm peaking between 85 and 95 db on my RS meter), do you feel there would not be a night an day difference with SE vs SE/R for the LCR? My assumption is not, given they are carrying the hevier load, but I wanted to be sure i understood your perspective.

Thanks

 

[InTheIndustry]

Is your opinion of the similarity between the SE and SE/R lines (at typical volume levels) directed at their use as surrounds, or mains as well? Meaning at typical volume levels (I would say that during most movies, I'm peaking between 85 and 95 db on my RS meter), do you feel there would not be a night an day difference with SE vs SE/R for the LCR? My assumption is not, given they are carrying the hevier load, but I wanted to be sure i understood your perspective.

Thanks

No problem. I’ll be glad to clarify….

I was referring to the surrounds and how (depending on listening habits) those channels would be marginally effected in a theatre application, if at all.

For the front stage I would recommend the SE/R drivers. For the rears I'm STILL recommending the SE/R drivers as that would = BEST performance. A compromise, even though it's only a slight one, would be to do the SE drivers out of the rears.

I do not know your listening habits, room, source material, etc. So that's why I'm also saying you're more than likely going to be fine with either. I have serious serious doubts you'll ever be sitting in your room and wonder, "Hey, why do my back surrounds not sound like my fronts?". They're THAT CLOSE for that application. But, if you want to sit down and listen to SACD or something that might tax the rear speakers more than a movie sound track, then you will not be getting the BEST most cohesive sound.

Look at it this way: If you do not spend the $ on the T1 set up, take a portion of the $ saved & get the 661-SE/R system with all SE/R drivers. You'll still come out way ahead $ wise while keeping the most consistent performance.

 

[thrang]

Dali

Just to be fair, I went and listened to some Dali speakers - the Helicon 400 Mk2, and the Mentor 6. While I could not do side by side comparisons with the RBH, I felt the Dali's had excellent dynamics and breadth, but I also through the upper frequencies were very bright, and even the upper midrange seemed a tad unnatural. Perhaps I'm not a fan of ribbons...?

Im going to listen to some Totem's next week, but I'm thinking it will be 661SE/R LCR, 66-SE/R side surrounds, and SI-760R rears (surface mounted though)

I'f I sell a few more things on eBay and Audiogon, I still may do the T-1/R as left and right...

Thanks to all for the help here...

 

[gus6464]

Just to be fair, I went and listened to some Dali speakers - the Helicon 400 Mk2, and the Mentor 6. While I could not do side by side comparisons with the RBH, I felt the Dali's had excellent dynamics and breadth, but I also through the upper frequencies were very bright, and even the upper midrange seemed a tad unnatural. Perhaps I'm not a fan of ribbons...?

Im going to listen to some Totem's next week, but I'm thinking it will be 661SE/R LCR, 66-SE/R side surrounds, and SI-760R rears (surface mounted though)

I'f I sell a few more things on eBay and Audiogon, I still may do the T-1/R as left and right...

Thanks to all for the help here...

Dali highs are very unforgiving and detailed and it's why some people consider them bright. I have a pair of Ikon 2 myself for my 2ch system and I personally love ribbons. If you are going to listen to Totems like the Hawk they will definitely sound a lot different. Totems have a more forward midrange so you might not find the highs fatiguing. Also if you found the Helicon and Mentor bright it might have also been placement. They cannot be toed-in one bit or they will sound very bright.

 

[thrang]

Dali highs are very unforgiving and detailed and it's why some people consider them bright. I have a pair of Ikon 2 myself for my 2ch system and I personally love ribbons. If you are going to listen to Totems like the Hawk they will definitely sound a lot different. Totems have a more forward midrange so you might not find the highs fatiguing. Also if you found the Helicon and Mentor bright it might have also been placement. They cannot be toed-in one bit or they will sound very bright.

Well, they were not toed in but they were very close to the back wall, which would have contributed to the slightly unnatural sounds in the mids perhaps, but I wouldn't think the highs.. We were also sitting close, maybe seven feet away, though the triangle was about right. I agree acoustics could have been a contributing factor...Actually, the Mentor's sounded better to me than the Helicon's in this regard - not as silibant. And the dealer did move the Mentor's into the same spot as the Helicon's, so the same amp, preamp, source, and listening positions were utilized (nice of him!)

While on the subject of "brightness", (and since I cannot find a dealer that has both the Reference and non-reference versions of the same RBH speaker to listen to), would the reference versions of the T-1 or 661's be assessed to be brighter, similar, or tamer in the high frequencies as compared to the non-reference versions? I thought I read somewhere that the non-reference versions were actually brighter, but I cannot rediscover that source...

Thanks

 

[thrang]

Well, they were not toed in but they were very close to the back wall, which would have contributed to the slightly unnatural sounds in the mids perhaps, but I wouldn't think the highs.. We were also sitting close, maybe seven feet away, though the triangle was about right. I agree acoustics could have been a contributing factor...Actually, the Mentor's sounded better to me than the Helicon's in this regard - not as silibant. And the dealer did move the Mentor's into the same spot as the Helicon's, so the same amp, preamp, source, and listening positions were utilized (nice of him!)

While on the subject of "brightness", (and since I cannot find a dealer that has both the Reference and non-reference versions of the same RBH speaker to listen to), would the reference versions of the T-1 or 661's be assessed to be brighter, similar, or tamer in the high frequencies as compared to the non-reference versions? I thought I read somewhere that the non-reference versions were actually brighter, but I cannot rediscover that source...

Thanks

Well, the decision was made and the order is placed:

Three T-1/R LCR
One pair 66-SE Side surrounds
One pair 61-SE Rear surrounds

Existing JL Audio Fathom 113 and Deftech SuperCube 1 sub (the DT will be upgraded to an older M&K I have or a second 113)

Hopefully will have them by next Friday...