polk rti12 system vs klipsch rf 35system

[cheapskete OCer]

I had a thread about a week ago asking if it would be worth it to upgrade to a klipsch rf 35 5.1 system, well the rf 35 or 82 towers and matching speakers, over my current polk R50s,CS2, and 2 pair R15s. my sub is a Epik Knight, im looking for more mid bass all around and would like to at times watch tv,movies,play xbox without the sub on because it carries through the whole house from the basement like crazy(i spare my G/F on occasion ). anyway i went to american and listened to the rf 82s and i wasnt floored, i dont know how i feel about the horn tweeters. Then i found some similarly priced polk rti12s and i like the sound of my current polks i just want more sound and mid bass, my receiver is a Onkyo 705 90w rms x7 and im willing to purchase a behringer a500 amp 2x230w at 8ohm and wire that to the 3 woofers on each rti and wire the onkyo to the mids and tweets so i dont have to worry about pushing the rtis. I dont have anywhere to demo the rtis so does any one have experiance with these to systems...

Thanks

 

[dorokusai]

The RTi/RTiA series is dramatically better than the R series from my demos. The Klipsch Reference is a nice series that gets pretty seductive when on tubes, but that's another animal. If you're looking for improved mid-bass then I would go with the Polk's. Both manufacturers are love/hate for most people but at least you have the opportunity to demo them in person and decide firsthand.

Mark
Polk Audio CS

 

[RacineBoxer]

The rti12's with the amp for sure. If you ever read a negative review of the rti12's it's because someone is pushing them with a POC AVR. There's a reason there is a huge power recommendation difference from the other Polk Monitor/Rti series (including the rti8's &10's) which is typically in the 20-200 watt range to the ratings on the Rti12's which is 50-500 - they are power hungry. If you supply the power, you'll have the mid-bass you are looking for. Without the power, you might struggle to get that mid-bass. There's just too much speaker there to push. If you don't get the amp you'd be better off getting the Rti10's. IMO.

 

[bandphan]

The rti12's with the amp for sure. If you ever read a negative review of the rti12's it's because someone is pushing them with a POC AVR. There's a reason there is a huge power recommendation from the other Polk Monitor and Rti series speakers which is typically in the 20-200 watt range to the ratings on the Rti12's which is 50-500 - they are power hungry. If you supply the power, you'll have the mid-bass you are looking for. Without the power, you might struggle to get that mid-bass. There's just too much speaker there to push. If you don't get the amp you'd be better off getting the Rti10's.

This speaker does not need huge power, and polk likes to "publish" "big" numbers and not to start this up again, how is power gonna help the mid bass?


Overall Frequency Response 18Hz-27kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 30Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 26kHz
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Recommended Amplifier Power 50-500 w/channel
Efficiency 90 dB
Crossover
(mid-high array) 1.8kHz, 12dB/octave low and high pass. 120Hz 12dB/octave high pass
Crossover
(subwoofer) 120Hz, 12dB/octave low pass

 

[dorokusai]

I agree. You don't need huge power to run a 90db loudspeaker. A modest standalone amplifier would work fine if you're looking for something more than an AVR.

Bandphan - They are rated as such due to the power handling capabilities of the overall loudspeaker. If someone has 500wpc to throw at a speaker, they probably don't own Polk speakers.....to be realistic. I know I wouldn't, and don't

Mark
Polk Audio CS

 

[Ron Temple]

If someone has 500wpc to throw at a speaker, they probably don't own Polk speakers.....to be realistic. I know I wouldn't, and don't

Mark
Polk Audio CS

Headphones don't count

 

[Sheep]

What frequency is that efficiency rating taken at? The 3 7inch woofers in those towers need the power. Buckeyefan1 went through this with his RTi10s. 90 isn't that much for a 5 driver speaker.

SheepStar

 

[RacineBoxer]

I guess I'm going off the almost countless number of people who have posted reviews that they were not happy with the speakers until they increased their power input. I will however say that this perspective seems almost unique to the 12's and not so much the lower models in the Rti line.

And the point of posting the power recommendation was not to point out the 500 watt upper limit but the 50 lower limit. So many of Polk's speaker have minimum requirements down around 20 then this one more than doubles the minimum to 50. Then people power these with some crappy 75 wpc AVR, which barely meets minimum requirements, and they complain. I was trying to avoid that. IMO the power supply should at least reach somewhere into the middle of the power handling recommendation.

I guess I shouldn't have used the word "huge" as I wasn't recommending someone buy a 500watt x2 amp. I do think something along the lines of 200wpc would be a happy medium for the 12's. Otherwise get the 10's or the A7's.

That's my $0.02, YMMV.

 

[dorokusai]

What frequency is that efficiency rating taken at? The 3 7inch woofers in those towers need the power. Buckeyefan1 went through this with his RTi10s. 90 isn't that much for a 5 driver speaker.

SheepStar

I don't know. I'll post those plots when I get them and that has been requested. TLSGuy(Mark) also raised this question and I'll do my best to answer them as they come. I know there's some ball busting to go thru here but I assure you I'll do whatever I can and will post everything I receive.

Personally, I've never found a multiple driver array that hard to drive at 90+db. Do they benefit from power, naturally but at some point we're talking semantics. What speaker wouldn't bloom from better power.

Racine - You make a solid point and I've heard that on the homepage as well. I'm not debating it as a problem just as an overall. Polk as the brandname, is irrelevant, and indicitive of any mainstream loudspeaker. I love tube warmth and amp power but in other circles I'm a heretic....I sorta like Klipsch and I'm a heretic. To fight the power gets you nowhere, just get your listen on. If you don't like it, cool, if you do with a Flea amp....cool.

Mark
Polk Audio CS

 

[RacineBoxer]

All's good Mark. For the record, I'm a big Polk fan and recommend them highly to friends in rl and on another forum I frequent much more than this one. I'm currently in the monitor line for my HT with an Onkyo 605 (no external amps) and I'm very, very happy (see I'm not a power nut ). With the prices you can find for the Monitor line I fell they are soooo hard to beat. I've auditioned the Rti line a couple times (in store) and love them very much too). I have my eye on the Rti A7's as that is plenty of speaker for me

 

[dorokusai]

What frequency is that efficiency rating taken at? The 3 7inch woofers in those towers need the power. Buckeyefan1 went through this with his RTi10s. 90 isn't that much for a 5 driver speaker.

SheepStar

This is an email from Stu Lumsden but I don't have the plots yet. I think my AVG blocked them for some reason so I requested that they be sent again....sorry about that. This was moreso a reply to TLS(Mark) concerning another set of questions but thought you might like it as well.

"The components, crossover alignment and physical arrangement of the RTi line in general and the RTi 12 in particular were meant only to produce a good sounding loudspeaker with smooth and extended amplitude response and life-like imaging. We felt that the measurements and, most importantly our listening, bore this true of the RTi 12 design. The first measurement below is a true engineering measurement of the RTi 12 system, unaltered by any marketing hand. The second is a ground-plane measurement of the woofer-section crossover and the third is each individual driver. These illustrate the crossovers and the individual component response. As evidenced by the first (system) curve the response is smooth and free of peaks. This RTi line was designed to meet a particular range of price-points and our goal was to put as much performance into the practical limitations therein represented. These would preclude, among other things, the use of powered designs. We(Polk Engineering) have no hard perceptions at Polk about or allegiance to any particular crossover alignments excepting that we believe that simplicity is the best approach. The writer below brings up several valid points which had to be navigated to design the RTi 12 and we feel that we did so successfully. One other note. The writer mentions the industry “obsession with ridged speaker cones” and I agree. Our philosophy on cone design has been that diaphragm rigidity is of no use w/o damping and our designs attempt to balance these to achieve a progressive decoupling of the cone that prevents harsh resonance effects.

Thanks for listening,

Stu Lumsden
V.P. of Engineering
PolkAudio"

Mark
Polk Audio CS

 

[cheapskete OCer]

i agree with whatever the hell he was talking about

 

[Sheep]

This is an email from Stu Lumsden but I don't have the plots yet. I think my AVG blocked them for some reason so I requested that they be sent again....sorry about that. This was moreso a reply to TLS(Mark) concerning another set of questions but thought you might like it as well.

"The components, crossover alignment and physical arrangement of the RTi line in general and the RTi 12 in particular were meant only to produce a good sounding loudspeaker with smooth and extended amplitude response and life-like imaging. We felt that the measurements and, most importantly our listening, bore this true of the RTi 12 design. The first measurement below is a true engineering measurement of the RTi 12 system, unaltered by any marketing hand. The second is a ground-plane measurement of the woofer-section crossover and the third is each individual driver. These illustrate the crossovers and the individual component response. As evidenced by the first (system) curve the response is smooth and free of peaks. This RTi line was designed to meet a particular range of price-points and our goal was to put as much performance into the practical limitations therein represented. These would preclude, among other things, the use of powered designs. We(Polk Engineering) have no hard perceptions at Polk about or allegiance to any particular crossover alignments excepting that we believe that simplicity is the best approach. The writer below brings up several valid points which had to be navigated to design the RTi 12 and we feel that we did so successfully. One other note. The writer mentions the industry “obsession with ridged speaker cones” and I agree. Our philosophy on cone design has been that diaphragm rigidity is of no use w/o damping and our designs attempt to balance these to achieve a progressive decoupling of the cone that prevents harsh resonance effects.

Thanks for listening,

Stu Lumsden
V.P. of Engineering
PolkAudio"

Mark
Polk Audio CS

Translation: We don't know anything. If you want the woofers to handle bass in these towers, they need amplification.

SheepStar

 

[MDS]

Translation: We don't know anything. If you want the woofers to handle bass in these towers, they need amplification.

SheepStar

Baloney. Do you ever have anything substantive to add to a conversation?

I can assure you that the guy making the reply is far more educated and experienced on this topic than you. It seems to me that all you ever do is add your pithy comments that imply you are an authority on every topic under the sun, even though it is demonstrably false in almost every case.

 

[majorloser]

Baloney. Do you ever have anything substantive to add to a conversation?

You know the answer to that question..............

(Hey, didn't I just do the same thing?)

 

[cheapskete OCer]

so then everyone votes polk over klipsch in the particular lines im referring to?
Is it because of the horn tweeters ?

 

[mazersteven]

so then everyone votes polk over klipsch in the particular lines im referring to?
Is it because of the horn tweeters ?

I'm thinking tweeter and bass response.

I know I preferred the Polk sound over Klipsch. And not every Polk. Just the Rti, and LSi series. But that's just me. I recommend everyone sit in front of a Klipsch reference system for a good amount of time demoing your material. You'll know if Klipsch is right for you.

 

[codexp3]

a500 amp 2x230w at 8ohm and wire that to the 3 woofers on each rti and wire the onkyo to the mids and tweets so i dont have to worry about pushing the rtis. I dont have anywhere to demo the rtis so does any one have experiance with these to systems...

Thanks

I wouldn't passive biamp with the receiver and an external amp. Just have the amp power the speaker.

 

[adwilk]

For the record, I love the Klipsch sound. I suppose once you get used to the horn, any of the traditional dome style tweeters just dont sound the same. You might fall in love with the horns like i did, or you might hate them. I think they are worth a shot. Especially if you like movies....

 

[PENG]

What frequency is that efficiency rating taken at? The 3 7inch woofers in those towers need the power. Buckeyefan1 went through this with his RTi10s. 90 isn't that much for a 5 driver speaker.

SheepStar

You are quite right, and I remember BEF1's post too. I listened to the RTi10s many times. They do need some power but not that much in a not too big room. I know the HKAVR630 had no problem pumping out mid bass out of those speakers. BEF1's 3805 has higher power/current capability than the 630 based on more than one lab measurement reports so I have no idea why he, and subsequently others reportedly had similar experience. BEF1 also reported that the RTi10's impedance was more like 4 ohms when he measured it (can't remember exactly the value he reported) but if I remember correctly he used an ohmmeter so he would have been reading the d.c. resistance. If he actually measured the impedance (much more difficult to do at home) he would have got a frequency varying impedance value and would nominally be 8 ohms unless Polk lies about their specs.

Power hungry is a relative term, but to most people I wouldn’t think the RTi10 is all that hungry, unless one is inclined to believe in audio myths. Believing in audio myths can be contagious, so be careful.