subwoofer opinions by mike c

[mike c]

these are my subjective observations and opinions, these are based on my listening habits and taste.

no objective/scientific tests have been done.

i prefer to concentrate on the "cons" or negatives of the subwoofers i write about because I feel we already have too many people singing praises for their purchased subwoofers to give an unbiased review (natural instinct). lucky for you guys, for me, the grass is always greener ...

i'll add more if I happen to find the time to listen to other subwoofers.

basically, if you find a negative i listed that you agree with, cross that sub from your list.

 

[mike c]

Elemental Designs A7-450 single or dual
RRP: 1,300USD each
room size: 4k
distance to listening position: 6 feet (both) also tried co-located 3 feet

pros:
-2" thick front baffle, very solid
-cheaper than the competition
-massive output when working

cons:
-insensitive input on the amp
-both drivers reached "over excursion" in my 4k sealed room = either i'm deaf or it's just crappier than the SVS PB13 Ultra which I conducted the exact same tests on.
-took quite some time to ship from the time i placed my order
-after sales service could do some serious improvement

I was very excited with this subwoofer, in fact I had commissioned ED to build me an "SVS Ultra killer". it had a massively bigger driver 18" vs. 13.5", massive enclosure volume probably twice that of the Ultra, ports all of which are larger than the Ultra's, and an amp with more power.

I have heard mechanical clanking from the subwoofers right from the get-go with my LFE demo discs, i asked permission from ED to remove the driver from the enclosure to eliminate port rattling as the cause. once I removed the drivers from the box, I video'ed the drivers using the same demo scene careful in not exceeding a certain SPL (89db nearfield IIRC) from the SPL meter so I could show ED. Their first guess was shipping damage. After weeks of back and forth, ED had me send "them" the drivers for rebuilding.

Apparently, the cause of damage was "over excursion". Two ways this could happen IMO:
1) arrived to me like that
2) I killed it - but this would mean i'm either deaf or the subwoofer just wasn't great in the first place

"new" drivers have been installed, i managed to get a mechanical clank one time with the Incredibles airplace scene, so I immediately backed off the volume. I'll try to watch a full movie sometime soon.

gain knob is around the 2 o clock position (0db on the receiver) just to match the other channels. since I always calibrate 6db hot, I only managed to get 6db hot when both were running.

to be continued

 

[mike c]

SVS PB13 Ultra single or dual or quad or hex
RRP: 1,599USD each
room size: 4k
distance to listening position: 6 feet (both)

pros:
-very well built, overall build quality is top notch
-the textured black finish is actually smooth and looks very durable
-more than enough output
-variable tuning
-sent me both the cloth and metal grill

cons:
-price is a bit high, but you get what you pay for
-when nearfield (ear to the sub), IMO i seem to detect a bit of port chuffing even with all ports open
-seems to draw quite a bit more power from the wall and capable of fluctuating my voltage regulators
-the enclosure is too deep at 27" (i think SVS was trying to limit the height and width)

Right before my pair of ED's shipped, I had the chance to order these Ultras, I said to myself, what better way to test my Ultra killers than comparing head to head with the real Ultras. Well after having spent some time with this, I ordered 4 other entry level SVS subs to see if all their subs had this build quality. I intend to buy at least two more Ultras for my own HT and replace the ED's as main LFE subwoofers if the ED's still don't perform properly.

 

[mike c]

Velodyne DLS-5000R / CHT-15R single or dual
RRP: i don't know how much this is over there, but I got them for at least 900USD each at exchange rate 45php:1USD
room size: 4k or 3k
distance to listening position: 3 feet in 3k room, super nearfield in 4k room (behind the listening position) or as stereo subs in 4k room playing parallel with the mains 80-120hz

pros:
-remote
-easily available
-cost
-crazy output for music

cons:
-tuned high (30hz)
-virtually no excursion on the drivers

it gave a pretty good performance for the cost that I bought a second one to test a theory that what I actually needed to get the chest thump I was craving could be achieved with "more" of the pressurization via more SPL. it didn't actually, and I also discovered that "midbass" does not shake couches at all. with an external crossover, this should work well enough as my L and R subwoofers taking maybe 60-120hz leaving 120hz and above to the mains.

 

[mike c]

Velodyne Digital Drive DD18
RRP: 4,000USD
room size: 4k or 3k
distance to listening position: 4 feet in 3k room, nearfield and 6 feet in 4k room

pros:
-built-in EQ is great
-smart limiting technology through DSP
-decent output (crazy for music, ok for HT)
-remote
-practically distortion free - spectacular for music

cons:
-tapers the low end during high output
-expensive
-pretty big footprint
-i was able to get this to tap dance a little in my 4k room (it's pretty light)

i once thought this would be my end all and be all subwoofer. it was at one time my best subwoofer, but for HT, I knew I could do better. the only reason this is still sitting in my bedroom is because I highly doubt anybody can afford it in my local used market.

 

[mike c]

Axiom EP500
RRP: 1,230USD
room size: 3k
distance to listening position: 4 feet in 3k room

pros:
-small
-beefy driver

cons:
-tuned high (25hz)
-air comes out of the XLR inputs and outputs during loud passages (probably no sealant)
-does 18-19hz only during crazy low output
-i was able to send it to protection with tv content
-expensive for what you get
-LFE input only

I believe the driver can benefit from a better/bigger enclosure with lower tuning and more amp power.

 

[mike c]

SVS SB12 Plus
RRP: 699USD for textured black ; 799USD for piano gloss
room size: <3k
distance to listening position: 4 feet
room compensation: bypass mode
EQ: none

pros:
-small
-affordable as compared to the other small sealed subs
-inputs and outputs like there's no tomorrow
-lots of fancy finishes available


cons:
-max output (before amp clipping/limiter kicks in) reached exactly 6db (on the master volume) less than my normal listening volume
-listening an hour or two at my desired volume = pretty hot amp.

granted my normal bedroom sub is the Velodyne DD18, i can't complain that a 12"er can't keep up with an 18"er with more than twice the amp power. I actually think it would be pretty cool to stack 3 or 4 of these in different colors taking up even less of a footprint than my DD18.

this made me fall in love with what the 12.3 driver can do, i'm now saving money for the ported plus subwoofers

 

[mike c]

DIY eD 13av.2 and TC Sounds 18" VMP PR Passive Radiator subwoofer with Behringer EP2500
RRP: active driver 350USD + passive driver 250USD + amp 470USD + labor/materials = priceless
room size: 4k room
distance to listening position: 4 feet

pros:
-very nice to see massive excursion

cons:
-total cost a bit expensive for what I got
-600w insufficient i think ... now trying bridged mono 1600w

my build thread:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43054

 

[mike c]

SVS PCi 25-31
RRP: 549USD
room size: 3k and 4k
distance to listening position: 4 feet

pros:
-small footprint
-lightweight (you can hug and lift to move it yourself)
-gives up nothing to the PB12NSD for music
-probably gives more anti-children protection than front firing subs - and maybe even protects your kid from hurting themselves on sub corners.

cons:
-tuned high (25hz)
-goes loud, but you sure do miss the low end rumble of lower tuned subs like the PB10NSD or PB12NSD
-ugly finish (cheap looking cloth)

like a giant SB12 actually. same extension, except louder. I'm thinking I'm especially harsh on this one because when you are staring at a heater sized subwoofer in front of you, you're expecting to be shaken out of your seat. I would only recommend these cylinders to dark HT's or modern setups ... because it really sticks out.

 

[mike c]

SVS PB12 NSD
RRP: 599USD
room size: 4k
distance to listening position: 4 feet in 4k room

pros:
-best of the NSD models
-midpoint of the budget : performance scale in the SVS line
-goes low
-hands down better than the PB10 in output

cons:
-the PCi 25-31 feels like it can go louder in the more important 25hz up bass frequencies

Like a louder and lower tuned PB10. much better than the PCi 25-31 with movies, not that you would notice though unless you listened in A/B sequence like I did.
though i like lower tuned subs, here I find out that the 25hz up frequencies are the most important to get right FIRST before concentrating on the low end.

 

[mike c]

SVS PB10 NSD
RRP: 429USD
room size: <3k and 4k
distance to listening position: 3 feet in <3k and 4k room

pros:
-much much better than the SB12 in terms of output
-much much cheaper than the SB12
-goes low
-perfect for small rooms (I mean less than 2k)

cons:
-one LFE input
-no crossover (useable only with AV receivers or thingamajigs with built in low pass crossovers)
-if driven too hard/loud, I think it gets sloppy, like it can't keep up.

I've always wondered which one was better, SB12 or PB10. Now I know, the PB10 is the better subwoofer. You only get the SB12 if you have a size limitation. I would highly recommend this subwoofer in this pricepoint. this is what I call a bang for the buck subwoofer.

the practically empty amp panel

 

[mike c]

pending listening:

 

[adk highlander]

All hail Mike C the sub King!

In all seriousness that is great info. I have not known/heard of anyone outside of a professional reviewer who has had that many subs in their ownership or direct disposal to test. Thanks and keep us posted as you get the final set-ups done.

 

[mike c]

actually, there are lots of guys who have a wider experience with subs than I.

hopefully, i'll get a chance to try out HSU and JL in the future ...

i do hope to add to the above write-ups because i did them in quite a haste and they are a bit terse.

 

[speakerman39]

Mike, great write-up. Lots of useful information. I am having a problem with my ed eQ.2 PEQ. I just recently found the time to hook it up. I could not get it to do anything. So, I will be getting in touch with Alex or Chris asap. It will surely be going back to eD. Thanks for taking the time to give us some insights as to how these subs perform.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[croseiv]

Awesome! Thanks very much for sharing the information. The Ultra is a great sub. I want another one.

 

[brulaha]

Velodyne Digital Drive DD18

cons:
-i was able to get this to tap dance a little in my 4k room (it's pretty light)

How much does the DD18 weigh? I have the HGS 18. I think it weighs about 110 pounds. I've never had any issues with it moving.

Just curious.

 

[ThA tRiXtA]

Wow... you've owned more subs than I have had girlfriends.

This says one of two things, either I'm a pathetic loser or you've got way too much cash on your hands

LOL

 

[mike c]

How much does the DD18 weigh? I have the HGS 18. I think it weighs about 110 pounds. I've never had any issues with it moving.

Just curious.

says 120lbs. on the brochure, but i'm not sure Velodyne quotes unit only or the whole package with box.

it would seem you need to turn up the volume if it ain't movin' you ain't groovin'.

 

[Nomo]

And the winner is?.................?