Universal Remote questions

[unreal.freak]

Is there a universal remote that sends proprietary RF signals? If so whats the name and model?

Thanks,
Tommy

 

[Warpdrv]

Maybe you could describe more accurately what it is your trying to do...
As well as a price range....
Most universal remotes are pretty flexible to do what you need to do...

 

[unreal.freak]

Maybe you could describe more accurately what it is your trying to do...
As well as a price range....
Most universal remotes are pretty flexible to do what you need to do...

Well, heres the whole story. I went on Logitechs website and entered in the brand and model number of the items i want to control with said remote Into their compatability tool. It claims that they support Hampton Bay Fans and Lutron Dimmers (Maestro). I already knew that the IR dimmers would be no trouble but i wasnt sure if the fans were IR also. I posted on Logitechs forum about wich remotes would work because the compatability tool didnt list wich remote. So what i want is to use 1 remote for the Fans, Dimmers, And all my A/V gear. My budget is $300 or less. Thanks for your speedy reply.

Peace,
Tommy

edit: 2 members of the Logitech Forums said that there are no Universal remotes made that will work the fans, the reason they give is that the fans are proprietary RF. Im under the impression that if the manufactor of the fans have a remote to control it, there should be a way to get a universal remte to do it.

 

[MDS]

Is there a universal remote that sends proprietary RF signals? If so whats the name and model?

It depends on what you mean. If you mean a universal remote that can learn RF commands from an original RF remote, the anwer is no. If you mean a universal remote that uses its own proprietary RF format for communicating with a compatible RF basestation, the answer is yes - all of them. Note that they all tend to use the standard frequency of 418 MHz which is why many of them will work with repeaters but you usually cannot use the basestation for one remote with another remote because the basestation will not understand the format of the data and thus cannot retransmit it as IR.

 

[unreal.freak]

Here is the actual thread
http://forums.logitech.com/logitech/board/message?board.id=general_remotes&message.id=13152&jump=true#M13152

 

[MDS]

Didn't we have this discussion recently? The first two posts in that Logitech thread explain the situation albeit in a non-technical way. The post that talked about 'Z-wave' as a language is a way to describe it without getting into all the gory details.

The Lutron dimmers can be controlled by any universal remote because they use standard IR frequencies and communication protocols and the remote can learn them (because it recognizes the protocol and associated data format). Hampton Bay fans use their own RF remote with its own proprietary protocol for transmitting the commands to the fan. A universal remote will not understand what the data means because it doesn't understand the protocol, not to mention that they simply aren't programmed to try to interpret data sent by RF.

Rather than try to make up a general example of data format vs communication protocol, let's use the most common IR remote control protocol - NEC1/NEC2. It's probably more than you really care to know but...

The format looks like this (from memory, but should be close):
|magic number|device code|sub-device code|command|

'Magic number' is just a unique bit pattern that basically means 'get ready, I'm trying to talk to you using the NEC1 protocol'. If the device uses the NEC1 protocol it will recognize that number and start listening for the rest of the numbers to follow. Device code is a unique number for a particular manufacturer and sub-device code is a unique number for a type of device from that manufacturer. Lastly, 'command' is the command you want performed - volume up, volume down, etc. The device will only respond if the device code and sub-device code matches; otherwise it ignores it in the same way that your network card drops any packet it receives that doesn't match its IP address.

Now...how you send that string of numbers is where the difference lies. A different protocol will use a different data format or a different frequency (data can be modulated using any number of techniques at any frequency). The only thing the device needs to know is which function you want to perform. If you send it 182 and 182 means volume up, it will do volume up but it will only recognize that the remote is talking to it if it recognizes the protocol. An RF remote takes the original IR format command it learned (or came from a database), converts it to its own format and transmits it over an RF frequency to the RF basestation. The basestation will turn around retransmit the original IR.

The RF controlled fan doesn't recognize what it is being sent if it was sent by an RF basestation that 'speaks' a different language. It may be saying 'perform function 182' but the fan won't recognize that is what it is saying, just like I won't understand what you are saying if you speak German.

That's my short tutorial...forgive me...I've been awake 36 hours for no real reason whatsoever.

 

[bandphan]

nite the short and skinny is there is no rf control to rf only products. The hampton bay ir products would work. This use to come up all the time when hughs made their sat set tops rf only(most come with ir option now) and there was no way to intergrate.

 

[MDS]

the short and skinny is there is no rf control to rf only products.

That's like saying 'yeah, it doesn't work'. Everyone knows that but it doesn't work for a reason.

 

[bandphan]

That's like saying 'yeah, it doesn't work'. Everyone knows that but it doesn't work for a reason.

i thought you went to bed that was the short and skinny part, you covered the rest

 

[MDS]

Apparently my body no longer requires sleep. Of course when I finally do fall asleep I'll sleep for 12 hours and the day will be trashed.

With this remote control protocol stuff, I realize some people just want a yes or no answer and others would like to understand the underlying concepts. When I'm in the mood, I try to explain it in the simplest form possible (which sometimes isn't simple enough because it is not simple after all) for those that do want to at least begin to understand how all this stuff works. That's why I answer the technical questions mostly and do not answer 'which receiver should I buy?' (my answer to that is pick one as they are all pretty much the same.).

I've answered this question and many other types over and over. I do it because I like it. It's just like the typical question 'Does anyone know the code to control this receiver'? If you understand how this works you'd know that is a question with no answer. But I don't ridicule people that don't know...I try to explain it. If it falls on deaf ears, so be it, but some people will see the light and appreciate this stuff even more. Most of this stuff is second nature to me because I'm a software engineer and this is absolutely the same as the general principles behind networking and data communications...an area in which I am definitely not a novice.

So my aplogies for sometimes being verbose, but for some people it is what they want to understand. For those that simply want a yes or no answer, NO there is no universal remote that can learn commands from another remote that uses RF only - regardless of which protocol it 'speaks'. The reason is in my prior post.

 

[unreal.freak]

Thanks to you guys for the responses, i have come to the realization that i will have atleast 2 remotes on my sofa. I have 2 ceiling fans in my Living area, both are Hampton Bay and i have them both set on the same Frequency. So i guess i can use one remote for the 2 of them and a Hamony for the rest of my needs. This is a big improvement over the 10 remotes i would have to have should i pass on a Harmony.

Thanks Again Guys,
Tommy