Quirky finds amongst our audio brethren

[timetohunt]

I have to relay this experience cuz its just interesting. At least to me, might be to you.

I usually hunt the local newspapers and weekly trader papers to see what I can find for my audio setup. I usually don't find much and browse it more as entertainment than anything else. Always hoping I might find a nice catch that will fit into my audio setup. Yes, I'm looking for that deal where audio equipment is passed along as a result of a break-up or worse. Hey - someone's gonna wind up with something good from time to time and it might as well be me.

I became interested in an ad for a mid hifi DVD player and when I talked to the person he had some other higher end equipment that interested me as well. So I go over to his place to check it all out. Super nice folks he and his wife, my own wife and I wind up spending almost 2 hours there. Mainly because I was taking so much time looking through his CD collection. Also, he did have some very nice stuff to sell. He was selling primarily because he found that his new Denon AVR did the work of a lot of other separate components. Understandable, others may have followed the same path.

He was also selling CDs for about 2 or 3 bucks each since he recorded everything to disc using what he proudly believes is his best piece of equipment. An Alesis Masterlink ML9600 recorder. He basically copied thousands of CDs onto high end CD-Rs believing that the Alesis upscaled his audio from typical redbook sampling to something that might be considered HDCD quality. He claims that all of those CDs can now be listened to in 24bit 196hz format... and that he hears a world of difference in the quality.

Is this possible in any way shape or form ? It made absolutely zero sense to me. I always thought that the only way something would sound better would be if it was recorded in the higher density. But this guy swears by this 'audio upscaling' thing. He was no young buck and I did not want to challenge 30 or 40 years of collecting music and stereo equipment. Note: he also uses an Ultra Clarifier before he plays CDs. You put a CD on it, and it spins real fast for about 30 seconds above a magnet or something. He said 'it really brings out the music'. Again, I just said 'thats nice' and went hunting through his CD collection for titles I wanted.

Anyway. After I brought some of the CDs home, I realized this guy was ruining his collection. I found more than a few out-of-print CDs that bring anywhere from 20 to 60 bucks each. For example, the Nazereth CD 'Catch'. Not a good release in terms of the music.. but... its out-of-print and will cost you $54 for a used one on Amazon. He had already sold about half of his collection before I got to it. But out of the 40 or so CDs that I bought, over 10 were out of print, with the least bringing $14 on the used market.

Sure wish I could have got to that guy sooner. Don't want to come off as an oppurtunist but he already believes he has a better collection now, and I could not have saved him from that. It also makes me cringe to think how much time was spent putting together all those dupes. Could have likely gone to med school with all that effort.

Thoughts ? And what is up with that Alesis Masterlink thingy (ML 9600). Is that something good to have ? Not sure what its main uses would be other than just plain copying.

 

[MDS]

He basically copied thousands of CDs onto high end CD-Rs believing that the Alesis upscaled his audio from typical red book sampling to something that might be considered HDCD quality. He claims that all of those CDs can now be listened to in 24bit 196hz format... and that he hears a world of difference in the quality.

Is this possible in any way shape or form ?

Short answer...NO. It is possible to resample audio from 16/44.1 to 24/192. Changing the bit depth from 16 to 24 does absolutely nothing - it would just zero extend the 16 bit number to 24 bits (thus not changing the value; in decimal the number 100 and the number 000100 both have a value of 100). Changing the sample rate involves interpolation - creating new samples where none previously existed. A higher sample rate does push quantization noise into higher frequencies and may be noticeable slightly for the treble frequencies.

Now if the Alesis device actually records the data being read off the CD (thus a real-time process) to an internal hard drive, it could slightly improve it...but here is the big catch - you CANNOT burn an audio CD with 24/192. If the disc is recorded as a data disc and not an audio disc then you'd retain the 24/192 data but you couldn't play it in a CD player, you'd have to copy the files to a hard drive and play them from the drive.

Note: he also uses an Ultra Clarifier before he plays CDs. You put a CD on it, and it spins real fast for about 30 seconds above a magnet or something. He said 'it really brings out the music'. Again, I just said 'thats nice' and went hunting through his CD collection for titles I wanted.

To me this is more audiophile nonsense, just like coloring the edges of the CD with a green marker or using the special rubber mat placed on top of the disc. There is no magnetic field on a CD so just what is being 'demagnetized'? Is a 680 nm (nanometer!) laser really affected by green ink or a magnetic field?

 

[timetohunt]

Oh, and yes... he said he uses the mat all the time (showed it to me, I never saw one before) and puts green ink on the edges of CDs he really likes.
My gut said it was a premier waste of time, but I don't have the technical insight to back that up.

The Alesis is equipped with a hard disc.

 

[Pyrrho]

Oh, and yes... he said he uses the mat all the time (showed it to me, I never saw one before) and puts green ink on the edges of CDs he really likes.
My gut said it was a premier waste of time, but I don't have the technical insight to back that up.

The Alesis is equipped with a hard disc.

Your gut seems more reliable than some people's guts. The guy has bought into some nonsense. Many people do buy into nonsense, in audio and in other aspects of their lives. Most people can't tell good reasoning from a hole in the ground.

If you think about how a CD works, you will realize that spinning it first, and exposing it to magnetism, are irrelevant to what the laser will read off of the disc, and consequently, it cannot improve the sound. I think people should study these things, in a broad and general way, so that they are less likely to be suckered. Here is a link to how CDs work:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/cd.htm

That article probably has as much depth as most people need. But knowing that little can help one avoid being a sucker to some of the more extravagant BS (assuming one has the ability to reason logically; if one does not, then no specific knowledge is going to guarantee that one will not be a sucker). For example, since the laser (i.e., a focused beam of light) is not shined on the edge of the CD, logically, it makes no difference whatsoever what color the edge is, and the green ink idea can therefore be known to be pure BS.

And, "opportunist" or not, you are correct, if he is selling his collection anyway, at a price he set, when he is not desperate for money, it may as well be you who buys from him as anyone else. I don't think there is anything wrong with what you have done, assuming you have accurately related the story. I don't think there would be anything wrong with you buying discs that you did not want to keep, and only purchased them to resell at a profit. He decided to sell, at that price. I believe, however, that what he is doing is probably illegal, as backup copies of copyrighted material are only legal when one retains the original*.

__________________
*I am not a lawyer, and laws vary from one jurisdiction to another. Consequently, nothing I state here or anywhere else should be construed as legal advice. For legal advice, one should consult a relevant expert within one's jurisdiction.

 

[jamie2112]

The masterlink from is a piece of crap. My studio partner and I got one when they first came out but they sound a little harsh and we got rid of it. You don't need one. I would say it is the same as burning discs to your hard drive. As long as you are doing this is a lossless fashion.. Mat? sound like a little snake oil there guys....

 

[mudrummer99]

This may not mean much but I have heard that CD's that have been ripped and re-burned onto CD-R's (as long as they were ripped as lossless) or just straight copied have a different sound quality to them. Most people that I have heard comment on this say that this actually makes them sound better. I don't really have the inkling (or quality enough equipment for that matter) to test this for myself. This may be just another snake oil but there also may be something to it, who knows, try it for yourself and let me know what you think.

Mike

 

[niget2002]

A CD contains digital data in the form of bits... bits are 0's and 1's... as long ast the 0's and 1's from one disk are the same as the 0's and 1's on another disk then there will be no difference in sound as the CD player is still reading the same bits.