Please help me spend $1500 for sound

[kip1981]

Hello. I would like to set up a home theater system to play Blu-Ray movies in 1080p. So I will be buying a big plasma 1080p TV.

However, I also want to have excellent surround sound. I know that I shouldn't buy a HTIB. And I know I need a receiver, a woofer, and a bunch of speakers. However, I don't know which ones to buy.

I would like to spend about 1500, but I am flexible and can spend $500 less or more, if necessary/preferred. There is a guide on this website for spending $1000, but I think that's probably too little money to be applicable to my situation.

Any advice is appreciated. I want to buy the system as soon as possible, so I can be ready for a party I want throw. Thanks.

 

[WmAx]

Hello. I would like to set up a home theater system to play Blu-Ray movies in 1080p. So I will be buying a big plasma 1080p TV.

However, I also want to have excellent surround sound. I know that I shouldn't buy a HTIB. And I know I need a receiver, a woofer, and a bunch of speakers. However, I don't know which ones to buy.

I would like to spend about 1500, but I am flexible and can spend $500 less or more, if necessary/preferred. There is a guide on this website for spending $1000, but I think that's probably too little money to be applicable to my situation.

Any advice is appreciated. I want to buy the system as soon as possible, so I can be ready for a party I want throw. Thanks.

Okay, I am going to suggest a list of things that hits your upper budget limit. These items will sum up to something that is unheard of in sound quality for the dollars spent. Please look my posting history up so that you can see my perspective and knowledge base in reference to audio engineering/design before reading the actual suggestions I am about to make.

Get these items
Behringer 2030P Pair x 3: $390
Emotiva LPA-1: $499
Behringer DCX2496: $275
Onkyo SR705: $575
Dayton SUB-120 x 2: $310

Total=$2049 USD

The 2030P speakers(which I have very recently measured) have superior measured performance to most that cost 4-5x as much, and this only pertains to on-axis performance. What really makes them stand out is the off axis performance, which is superior to most speakers, regardless of cost. Superb off axis response is very important: it means that the off axis stray energy that reverberates in the room is similar to on axis direct sound. The human perception system is shown in credible research, to detect a difference between on and off axis response as a primary negative sound quality effect. So the closer on and off axis match, the better. In addition, a similar on axis and off axis response enable timbre to be better heard/perceived, as shown by more credible research in this field.

The 2030P is overall, a rather flat response speaker, without any significant emphasis or de-emphasis across it's bandwidth. This is desirable also - it means you can use a precision DSP device to adjust the curve to one that YOU DO PREFER. Most speakers have substantial colorations built in - and you can not easily get rid of these - and thus you are stuck with the coloration(s).

The 2030P needs to be slightly modified(things such as making sure air tight seal is in place and a rattling part is secured) to yield better performance even in overall stock condition. Many mass produced speakers have small flaws that can be easily fixed, and the 2030P is no exception. With about 15 minutes of work per speaker, you can apply these fixes as I will specify, if you intend to get the speaker system.

The DCX2496 DSP unit I recommend is not optional - it must be used to allow the precision control of your speaker response to your preference. It also is going to handle the main crossover duties for your subs and main channels - because it has a far more advanced xover system than you will find in a receiver. The DCX will allow you to seamlessly combine the dual subs with the mains as a seemingly single source of sound from each channel.

The LPA-1 amplifier is required, as you have no practical way to feed the pre-outs of the reciever to the DCX for process, then back into the reciever. This just is not possible. In addition, the LPA-1 amplifier has considerable power output and can power low impedances - so you will not likely ever run into an issue where you can not drive your speaker with sufficient power. You can also use other amplifiers - this was names merely because it is one of the best value multi-channel amps currently on the market.

The subs I recommended are known to be the best possible value. If you want to spend a bit more on the subs(about 300 per sub as opposed to 155 per sub), I can recommend an alternative is substantially higher in quality - but will be non-conventional - as are many of my suggestions.

The SR705 receiver I recommended is optional: you can choose any model receiver you so desire that has the require pre-amp outs. I merely name this receiver as an example of one with modern HDMI switching/conversion/upscaling abilities for your video needs.

Note: the cost I quoted does not include cables, adapters, etc; which are always an extra cost.

 

[Pyrrho]

Hello. I would like to set up a home theater system to play Blu-Ray movies in 1080p. So I will be buying a big plasma 1080p TV.

However, I also want to have excellent surround sound. I know that I shouldn't buy a HTIB. And I know I need a receiver, a woofer, and a bunch of speakers. However, I don't know which ones to buy.

I would like to spend about 1500, but I am flexible and can spend $500 less or more, if necessary/preferred. There is a guide on this website for spending $1000, but I think that's probably too little money to be applicable to my situation.

Any advice is appreciated. I want to buy the system as soon as possible, so I can be ready for a party I want throw. Thanks.

I would probably go with the Yamaha RX-V663 receiver:

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=567571&CTID=5000300

I have heard that one can find it for less than $400, but I have not searched for it.

And the SVS PB10-ISD subwoofer (or a better one from SVS, if I managed to keep the main speaker cost down):

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

For the other speakers, I recommend that you go to all of the audio shops near you, and listen to as many different models as you can stand to listen to, of every type you can find (e.g., horn, dome, ribbon, etc.). I would avoid wasting money on tower fronts, as you will be sending the deep bass to the subwoofer anyway, so there is no sense in spending money for a capability that you will not use. You do, however, want the main speakers to solidly go down to at least 80 Hz, which means that a somewhat lower frequency for the -3 dB point would be desirable; a -3 dB of 60 Hz should be fine. I would go with the best bookshelf speakers I could find. (I have not looked in your price range for too long to recommend specific models, but it really would not matter much anyway, as you will be listening to them, not me.)

 

[DrShikima]

I was just about to post a similar question today after stumbling across this forum and this specific posting.

But I'm curious, why that specific Onkyo? I heard that it has a 40ms lag when you watch TV or other broadcast programming and that a progressive scanner is needed to keep up with the hardware inside of that receiver.

So, initially, I did consider the Bose Lifestyle 48 Series IV and it is pretty good. But really gets my attention is the intelligence system inside of it which can adapt the speakers to the room configuration and how it is designed and decorated. But that's it. I am disappointed by the crispness of the high range and the lows which come from the standard sub-woofer. I welcome your experienced viewpoints on this product. The more detail, the better!

Now, with that said, I like the gear that was picked out initially. And I've had mediocre systems in the past with the best being the heavy wood cerwin vega tower speakers and a JBL power sub-woofer. These items are long gone due to a nasty divorce, but good riddance to bad rubbish (and I don't mean the stereo parts either! w00t!)!!

The choice in satellite speakers, I will have to trust you decision, and money isn't an object. I just need a good range in choices (near top end like the Onkyo 705 that was previously suggested) and the 2k range can be easily adjusted too. I just need help and ideas and welcome anyone to post or privately contact me about this. I have lots of questions so don't be afraid.

Thanks again and thanks for a forum like this!

 

[WmAx]

But I'm curious, why that specific Onkyo? I heard that it has a 40ms lag when you watch TV or other broadcast programming and that a progressive scanner is needed to keep up with the hardware inside of that receiver.

As I stated, the Onkyo suggestion is made only as an example of a reciever with the required audio pre-outs and modern HDMI switching/conversion/upscaling function. It will not matter which reciever you use as long as it has the required connections for your purposes.

So, initially, I did consider the Bose Lifestyle 48 Series IV and it is pretty good. But really gets my attention is the intelligence system inside of it which can adapt the speakers to the room configuration and how it is designed and decorated. But that's it. I am disappointed by the crispness of the high range and the lows which come from the standard sub-woofer. I welcome your experienced viewpoints on this product. The more detail, the better!

The specific audio and speaker equipment that I suggested will easily outperform measurably and functionally any other comparable price selection. The Bose is probably the simplest option - they make their stuff very simple to use and set up. It will be compact in size. It will not come close to the audio quality possible with the super-value list I presented above.

The choice in satellite speakers, I will have to trust you decision, and money isn't an object. I just need a good range in choices (near top end like the Onkyo 705 that was previously suggested) and the 2k range can be easily adjusted too. I just need help and ideas and welcome anyone to post or privately contact me about this. I have lots of questions so don't be afraid.

If you want a really good satellite speaker to use for center, left, right and rear surrounds, and you don't need to watch the budget as closely: get Paradigm S1 2 way speakers. This needs no modification, and has a somewhat low resonance cabinet, and has fantastic dispersion comparable to the Behringer 2 ways I suggested earlier. Use the same DCX2496 processor and use dual subs(but obviously you will go with higher quality subs with a higher budget) and you still will need external amplifier(s). I don't endorse 'going to listen' to find the best speakers. Frankly, if you choose one that is measurably neutral and has other specific desired measured characteristics to allow it: you can adjust the response shape to your IDEAL preference using a powerful DSP unit such as the DCX2496 unit I recommended. This will results in a far better result than if you simply pick a speaker based on the standard method listening evaluations used by consumers. There are variables that skew your results - and the variables that really play into preference are all considered by my suggestions and as a result are adjustable to whatever you do prefer.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

For the other speakers, I recommend that you go to all of the audio shops near you, and listen to as many different models as you can stand to listen to, of every type you can find (e.g., horn, dome, ribbon, etc.).

And if he does this vs. getting the specific neutral and very wide dispersion speaker I recommended: the result will be inferior. No speaker is going to come close to matching the measured (and physical build) qualities of the Behringer 2030P for it's price of which I know of. Using the DSP device that I list as crucial, it can be adjusted to one's preference, since it has very little coloration of it's own, compared to other standard speaker choices.

-Chris

 

[jcPanny]

Speaker options

Kip,
Pick up the $4-500 receiver and check out the speaker packages from AV123, SVS, Ascend and other companies in your budget. At a local dealer, look for Paradigm, Klipsch, Energy, and others to audition. Like you sugest any of these will kill a HTIB package.

There is also a good deal on an EMP system in the AH Store that includes floorstander for the mains.
http://store.audioholics.com/product/1831/0/emp-ef30t-5-1-speaker-system

 

[DrShikima]

WmAx,

I appreciate your time in posting. I'm just curious as to why the Emotiva LPA-1 and Behringer DCX2496 are really needed and how are they hooked up?!

This is a relatively new concept for me.

Also, I'd like to hear some other ideas for the sub-woofer of the same class or better in your opinion when looking at the Dayton SUB-120. You said that they are non-conventional and I'd like to hear your ideas.

Ideas are good!! I'd like plenty of them.
Thanks again!

 

[WmAx]

WmAx,

I appreciate your time in posting. I'm just curious as to why the Emotiva LPA-1 and Behringer DCX2496 are really needed and how are they hooked up?!

The DCX is required because it has far more powerful manipulation of response and far more powerful/precision xovers as compared to what a receiver offers. As a result, the DCX is suited to precisely shaping your response and perfectly integrating the subwoofer(s), where as the receiver would not be able to do so with a suitable degree of precision to achieve the wide variety of sonic adjustments alone. The amplifier suggested is needed to amplify the speakers after sending the pre-out signal to the DCX. This is because almost no surround receivers have a way/connection to accept the pre-out signal back into the receiver's internal amplifier circuitry

Also, I'd like to hear some other ideas for the sub-woofer of the same class or better in your opinion when looking at the Dayton SUB-120.

I am not aware of any other subwoofer that is in the same quality league as the Dayton SUB-120 for around the same price. You usually get *junk* for that price; this is a decent subwoofer.

You said that they are non-conventional and I'd like to hear your ideas.

Ideas are good!! I'd like plenty of them.

Well, the alternative, which is not conventionally chosen, is to buy a pre-finished set of sub cabinets(they are glued together and pre-painted). You use a basic jig saw or router and cut a hole in it to mount in a raw driver. You can go ahead and and also cut a hole for port(s) if you want to use a ported alignment. Cut a hole for the speaker terminal. Connect the two wires. Connect to a low cost, high power pro-audio amp(which is in turn connected to the DCX). Done. It requires no special skill. The result, if you choose the right driver and cabinet alignment(which I can specify for you so their is no guessing on your part), is a top notch quality subwoofer for a fraction of what you would pay for a retail unit of equivalent quality. By this, I mean for $350-$380 for parts(amplifier not included) per subwoofer, you can have a subwoofer that easily compares measurably with high-end subwoofers that cost 5x or more.

-Chris

 

[rmhawker]

WmAx

I am lucky to have stumbled across this. I am in a similar situation but my budget is around $2000-3000. I will obviously spend less if the quality is still there and I like your ideas, especially the Paradigm S1 2 way speakers, given they do not need modification.

That leads me to my questions. I am NOT techinically savy at all. I just want really great sound that is very easy to set up. That initially led me to Bose V20 and V30 systems. I will be using this system for movies, tv and music primarily. Movies via a regular upconverting DVD player and a Blu-ray.

So My questions are: 1. how simple is the system you are recommending to put together?

2. I have a prewired-surround sound system in the house I bought. Are these speakers easy to attach to the wall?

3. In your opinion is the V20 or V30 Bose so truly inferior that I should not consider it?

 

[ChunkyDark]

So, initially, I did consider the Bose Lifestyle 48 Series IV and it is pretty good. But really gets my attention is the intelligence system inside of it which can adapt the speakers to the room configuration and how it is designed and decorated.

Most of the >400$ receivers now have a setup mic and auto config program that will do this for you.
It certainly won't achieve what the setup WmAx is suggesting, but it does help.

 

[funked up]

WmAx

I am lucky to have stumbled across this. I am in a similar situation but my budget is around $2000-3000. I will obviously spend less if the quality is still there and I like your ideas, especially the Paradigm S1 2 way speakers, given they do not need modification.

That leads me to my questions. I am NOT techinically savy at all. I just want really great sound that is very easy to set up. That initially led me to Bose V20 and V30 systems. I will be using this system for movies, tv and music primarily. Movies via a regular upconverting DVD player and a Blu-ray.

So My questions are: 1. how simple is the system you are recommending to put together?

2. I have a prewired-surround sound system in the house I bought. Are these speakers easy to attach to the wall?

3. In your opinion is the V20 or V30 Bose so truly inferior that I should not consider it?

Most people on this forum will tell you to stay away from bose at all costs. Its an inferior product at a very steep price. Surrounds systems can be moderatly difficult to put together if you don't have any experience. Especially if you looking to run wire through the walls. At your price range there are literally hundreds of different combinations that people could suggest. My suggestion would be to do research and lots of it before you decide to buy anything, and your here which is a great start, lots of good information on this site and people will steer you into the right direction.

If you watch allot of movies a good subwoofer is a great starting point. Look at SVS, HSU, and AV123. All of which are online direct. For a reciever you going to need something with HDMI, two of the most reccomended are yamaha and onkyo. The new yamaha Rx-V663 is a steal at its price point, can be had for $350 brand new. Speaker types depend heavily on taste, audition what you can at local shops. If you interested in internet direct(which usually yields great performance at lower cost) take a look at the speakers from SVS and AV123. If you ask around here you will get many more reccomendations for speakers. You will find some that you like.

 

[rnatalli]

Receiver: Yamaha 663, Onkyo 606, or Pioneer 1018
Subwoofer: SVS PB10-ISD or HSU STF-2
Speakers: Like others have suggested, head out and listen as only your ears will know what they like. My favorites are PSB, Monitor Audio, and RBH for B&M and Axiom, Av123, Ascend, and Aperion for ID.

 

[WmAx]

I will obviously spend less if the quality is still there and I like your ideas, especially the Paradigm S1 2 way speakers, given they do not need modification.

The problem here is that your stated max. budget of $3000 will not buy the S1 speakers for the system. They S1 seems to sell for well over $1000/pair. You would need to spend roughly $2500(assuming a really great deal) on just the 5 speakers for the surround - leaving very little for anything else.

So My questions are: 1. how simple is the system you are recommending to put together?

Compared to the standard set - up: it's not simple. But it's all relative. Anyone can do it if they are pushed in the right direction. I can answer any questions you have as what is needed exactly and I can answer questions during your set-up.

2. I have a prewired-surround sound system in the house I bought. Are these speakers easy to attach to the wall?

Assuming there is a bracket mount on the speakers - very easy. Just attach mounts to nearest studs.

3. In your opinion is the V20 or V30 Bose so truly inferior that I should not consider it?

I am sorry, but Bose has never demonstrated the ability to design/build a hi-fidelity speaker system in the modern era. They design consumer friendly packages using the cheapest possible designs/construction and back them with heavy marketing to make consumers believe they are great. Since most consumers have never been exposed to serious hi-fi speakers/systems - it seems that they are easily won over by the Bose marketing and demos.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

"... head out and listen as only your ears will know what they like....."

An outdated suggestion that will usually lead to inferior results as compared to my specific recommendations. When proper conditions are met, one can shape the sound to one's preference. I did recommend using specific gear that can allow for one to largely 'dial in' their desired sound. Why settle for some built-in coloration that you can't change? Seriously. Why?

-Chris