Netflix $99 Set Top Player from Roku

GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
But if the device had a hard drive, you could start the movie after the download was about halfway done so there would be a buffer. I don't think residential internet can really handle streaming HD yet.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
What kind of picture quality are we talking about with their downloads? How do they compare with DVDs?

From looking at:

http://www.roku.com/netflixplayer/frequently-asked-questions/

They seem to claim that I could have DVD quality, but they are a bit vague about what exactly will get you that. They say:
I have been using the Watch Now feature since beta. I have the MyNetFlix plug in for Vista MCE.

Far as quality goes: It varies. I have seen DVD quality and then I have seen some close to crummy output. It depends on the connection stream (either what your down stream is or if NetFlix is controlling the streaming rate).

For $8.99 I really don't want to hear all the whiners about HD/DD etc. It's $9/month for petes sake. If you can find better then go for it.
 
G

gus6464

Audioholic Samurai
I have been using the Watch Now feature since beta. I have the MyNetFlix plug in for Vista MCE.

Far as quality goes: It varies. I have seen DVD quality and then I have seen some close to crummy output. It depends on the connection stream (either what your down stream is or if NetFlix is controlling the streaming rate).

For $8.99 I really don't want to hear all the whiners about HD/DD etc. It's $9/month for petes sake. If you can find better then go for it.
Exactly. I have the 3 movie at a time plan from netflix and we always get the new stuff on BD but sometimes we feel like watching older movies which are only out on DVD and this is where the Watch Now feature really shines. If this box ends up being nearly as good as it sounds I will definitely be buying another one for the bedroom.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
I have been using the Watch Now feature since beta. I have the MyNetFlix plug in for Vista MCE.

Far as quality goes: It varies. I have seen DVD quality and then I have seen some close to crummy output. It depends on the connection stream (either what your down stream is or if NetFlix is controlling the streaming rate).

Thanks for the information.


For $8.99 I really don't want to hear all the whiners about HD/DD etc. It's $9/month for petes sake. If you can find better then go for it.

I think there is a place for commenting on quality, regardless of price. What you are saying is that this brand new service is inferior to DVD, which has not been the best home format for a couple of years now. One typically hopes that some new technology will provide better, not worse, performance. Of course, we all know that MP3s show that that is not always the case.

Since I already have a qualifying account, this is probably worth trying for me, particularly for watching old TV shows and such that are not going to provide the best picture and sound no matter what format it is put on. But from your comments on quality, I don't know if I would bother with it if I were not already renting from Netflix anyway.

(My computer is as far away as possible from my home theater in my home [two floors away, at the opposite end of the house], which is why I have not tried the Watch Now feature in the past. I don't want to change where my computer or my home theater is, and I don't want to watch movies or TV on my computer, so having a separate box that can deal with this is fairly important in my case.)
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
What I want to know is what Blockbuster will be doing to compete with this.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Absolutely agreed - and I want to hear feedback from everyone who uses it or similar technology.
I understand, but when I pay $1.00 for a burger my expectations aren't that high. It's called being realistic. It's easy to discuss quality at any price range including free.

I am talking more about expectations, that's all.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I understand, but when I pay $1.00 for a burger my expectations aren't that high. It's called being realistic. It's easy to discuss quality at any price range including free.

I am talking more about expectations, that's all.
No doubt - my expectations aren't for HD at that price, but at what price do they offer HD and what's their solution for my HDTV? If I do want maximum quality, is there a way that I can not stream the movie, but let it buffer to memory at maximum quality so I can enjoy at least DVD level quality every time I view?

Really, we are 10+ years beyond VHS, and I don't even have a composite video feed to my plasma displays. I think the service is nifty and is definitely headed the right direction, but if it allowed for HD downloads and had a compatible box for a couple hundred bucks or something, I likely would switch to their service instead of Blockbuster Online immediately.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
No doubt - my expectations aren't for HD at that price, but at what price do they offer HD and what's their solution for my HDTV? If I do want maximum quality, is there a way that I can not stream the movie, but let it buffer to memory at maximum quality so I can enjoy at least DVD level quality every time I view?

Really, we are 10+ years beyond VHS, and I don't even have a composite video feed to my plasma displays. I think the service is nifty and is definitely headed the right direction, but if it allowed for HD downloads and had a compatible box for a couple hundred bucks or something, I likely would switch to their service instead of Blockbuster Online immediately.
That's a whole different ball game there. And I totally agree. The biggest limiting factor is simple: Bandwidth. Always has been, always will be.

I for one don't need every watching experience to be a total immersion in all the latest and greatest. I would rather watch a killer movie like 1965's 'The Bedford Incident' (Black and White with 2.0 sound) then 2004's 'Down Periscope' in full H.264 and Dolby True HD any day. For me currently it's about CONTENT and the ease of delivery.

For $8.99 I think that is quality enough. I just pray they keep expanding the library at a pretty good clip. There has got to be a ton of old catalog, but awesome, movies/tv/documentaries/indie releases out there for cheap licensing.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
But if the device had a hard drive, you could start the movie after the download was about halfway done so there would be a buffer. I don't think residential internet can really handle streaming HD yet.
Does this particular player have any sort of a hard drive? I can't find any real specs beyond the general marketing website. That would certainly be valuable.

For me, the most valuable device would be one that could "save" up to X number of movies at any one time (2 or 3) so I could download several overnight and not have to worry about my internet connection for streaming purposes. The movies could even auto-delete after 24 or 48 hours.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Does this particular player have any sort of a hard drive? I can't find any real specs beyond the general marketing website. That would certainly be valuable.

For me, the most valuable device would be one that could "save" up to X number of movies at any one time (2 or 3) so I could download several overnight and not have to worry about my internet connection for streaming purposes. The movies could even auto-delete after 24 or 48 hours.
If it's Netflix, why not have it as part of your rental agreement? Why not make all the downloads full DVD quality, make them download to the drive overnight? Have the FULL DVD library available to view? Only one or two, or whatever are available at a time and then when you 'return' it, at your choosing (not automatically!) a new movie from your queue loads the next night?

I think the $99.00 box is a great, but it sure isn't what I would call a serious leap in technology. It seems kind of gutless to me. I would love to see the one that they are developing behind closed doors that actually shows some innovation and brings forward a new idea instead of deliving to us YouTube v2.0 ;)

God, I sound jaded.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
If it's Netflix, why not have it as part of your rental agreement? Why not make all the downloads full DVD quality, make them download to the drive overnight? Have the FULL DVD library available to view? Only one or two, or whatever are available at a time and then when you 'return' it, at your choosing (not automatically!) a new movie from your queue loads the next night?
That's a great question. Why does Netflix limit the downloads to only 10% of their total catalog. I understand from a server point of view why they don't want all users accessing the entire catalog, but 10% seems quite low.

The biggest complaint I hear from most Netflix users is that they cannot get the movies that are on their queue. Why not create another rental tier- unlimited access to as many downloadable movies as you want in a month from the full catalog, or at least 60% of the catalog, and charge $20 or $25 a month. You could also have a base charge of $10 a month for 10 or 15 movies, and then charge extra for additional downloads.

Right now Netflix gets most of its profit margin from people who prepay and underuse their services, very similar to the cell phone industry, but I think they can also take advantage of the people who are willing to "over-pay" to be power users.
 
AverageJoe

AverageJoe

Full Audioholic
According to Netflix, the reason their full catalog is not available for instant viewing is due to "long standing contractual obligations" and licensing issues from the studios.

I've done a bit more instant viewing than disc rental since it's so convenient, and so far I've been very satisfied with the available titles. It's a great companion service to the rentals, but it's not going to replace discs for our "Movie Night" viewing until the quality improves.

That said, I still ordered the player for the living room set. I suspect it'll get used more often than the PC in the theater room (sometimes the streaming video can look pretty bad on the 128" screen, but acceptable on the smaller plasma).

It should be here Friday. Guess I'll find out.:)
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
That's a great question. Why does Netflix limit the downloads to only 10% of their total catalog. I understand from a server point of view why they don't want all users accessing the entire catalog, but 10% seems quite low.
Netflix has stated that licensing costs is the biggest determinate in getting content for the watch now feature.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
I understand, but when I pay $1.00 for a burger my expectations aren't that high. It's called being realistic. It's easy to discuss quality at any price range including free.

I am talking more about expectations, that's all.

I agree that it seems like a great deal. But from your description, it is just barely good enough to have, even for free, as far as I am concerned (to use your analogy, even though I do not expect much for a dollar, there are plenty of $1 foods that I would not take for free; if I were poor and starving, of course, my standards would probably be much lower). But I would be happier if it had an internal hard drive that could download 2 or 3 movies at DVD quality for viewing later instead of being stuck with streaming video. I would be happy to pay more for the box that allowed that to be done. I would even be willing to pay $250 for such a box with such service, and feel like I was getting a great deal. And I understand that licensing can be a problem, so I am content at the amount of content conjoined with their rate of adding new content to this, particularly since this is in conjunction with getting DVDs mailed out that cannot be viewed from a download.

Anyway, I will report back my opinion of this after I get it; the box is already ordered.
 
I wrote an editorial about the box (which I ordered) over at AV Rant. To be honest, I cannot believe some of the push-back on this product. This is a HUGE development in the industry.

Netflix has around 8.25 million subscribers. That number is either going to double in two years, or Blockbuster will offer something similar and both subscriber numbers will grow. I'm happy either way so long as they continue to improve and innovate.

The Editorial: http://www.avrant.com/?p=295
 
N

niget2002

Junior Audioholic
I don't see why they can't fix the licensing issues... what's keeping them from just limiting the number of "copies" of a movie from being downloaded/streamed simultaneously? would that be any different from them buying, say, 1000 copies of something and renting those out?

I think this box is a big step in the right direction, but still 2 steps back from where it needs to be. It needs an onboard hard drive for storing at least 1 full movie (preferably 2), and it needs at least a minimum of DVD quality instead of VHS.

If a user doesn't mind VHS quality, then I think a "Play Now" button streaming VHS or low DVD quality would be fine, but for those of us who don't mind waiting until tomorrow to watch the video, allow it to buffer to disk.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
I wrote an editorial about the box (which I ordered) over at AV Rant. To be honest, I cannot believe some of the push-back on this product. This is a HUGE development in the industry.

Netflix has around 8.25 million subscribers. That number is either going to double in two years, or Blockbuster will offer something similar and both subscriber numbers will grow. I'm happy either way so long as they continue to improve and innovate.

The Editorial: http://www.avrant.com/?p=295
I do agree with your point about Blockbuster. They're going to have to offer something similar to be competitive.

I think the doubling of subscribers is being incredibly aggressive and probably totally out of reach. Even the company themselves doesn't see more than a 20% net gain for FY2008, as they recently stated in their first quarter earnings release. The company has a subscriber churn rate that works out to over 1 million customers leaving every quarter. A doubling of their subscriber base would require a net subscriber growth rate of 33% per year, which means the yearly gross growth rate would be over 70% (~20% new people signing up every month).

From a business perspective what I think is most interesting is how the hardware costs will affect Netflix. Right now Netflix's financial advantage is that their biggest worry from a cost side subscriber acquisition cost (basically the total marketing costs for adding each new subscriber in a period)- which has been going down pretty significantly over the past few quarters. This is a positive sign b/c even though they're adding fewer customers, percentage-wise, each quarter they're able to keep their marginal costs down. Now they're adding costs related to hardware production, distribution, and maintenance. The company already operates on razor thin operating and profit margins, any additional costs without the appropriate benefits is going to have a very large impact on their financials.

From a financial standpoint I think this was a genius move on the part of Netflix because they had to do SOMETHING. They were not going to survive and grow over the long run simply through what simply amounted to a DVD mail-order business. While they were profitable and were starting to generate cash, they were never going to be very profitable or generate enough cash to ward off a potential buyer (e.g. Best Buy) who would eat the company whole. This move also put a ton of pressure on their main competitor, who's margin and ROE/ROA numbers look considerably worse than Netflix, and will force Blockbuster to make a bold move back.
 
J

jamie2112

Banned
I think this a great thing. I have been using redbox for $1 but I can live with $9 a month for movies....
 
Phil Taylor

Phil Taylor

Senior Audioholic
The Roku box has both HDMI and component connections on the rear panel and the FAQ says it is HD ready whenever Netflix starts streaming HD content. I doubt the unit has a hard drive - probably just enough RAM to buffer a margin for stream stability. <--- just an educated guess :)
 
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