Blu-ray SNAFU

[tn001d]

So whats the deal with Blu-ray and even HD-DVD....

Let me explain

During the 1990's we were exposed to Dobly AC3 5.1 digital audio, which went for a few yrs before new expanded formats. We heard first about THX surround EX --> Dobly Digital EX-->DTS ES Matrix/Discrete.

Many DVD's started popping up with the 6th channel encoded, resulting in manufactures marketing 6.1 and then 7.1 AVR's. I myself got one of the first 7.1 receivers.

Things were calm and set for a while...

Here comes along Blu-ray and HD-DVD. With them came even newer and better formats: Dolby Digital Plus, Dobly TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution/Master Audio. As a result new AVR popped up with those decoding abilities.

But here is my problem

Seems like every Blu-ray/HD-DVD i look at are all in 5.1...whats the deal Shouldnt they all have at least 6.1 capabilities. I have DVD versions of certain blu-ray's that are in 6.1, but the Blu-ray is only in 5.1

I am not sure, but i would assume AVR's can add a matrixed rear surround channel from the 5.1 mix, buts still not the same as having a discrete channel encoded.

I hope we dont start seeing re-releases of Blu-rays (Special Deluxe Platinum Editions) with added 6.1 or 7.1 mixes.

Anyone else wonder why all these new HD version are mostly in 5.1 ??

 

[Dezoris]

Most of these are 5.1 PCM uncompressed, which is a large step up for 5.1 dolby digital and DTS.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Yeah, I've been wondering why most seem to be in 5.1. I think a lot of the older, over 5 years, soundtracks are just copied over from some old dvd source. But even newer movies seem to have few with anything more than 5.1.

Jack

 

[BMXTRIX]

The biggest question has to be whether or not this is because the studios are chincy, or if the original films are only being mastered in 5.1.

There is no doubt that the formats are capable of it, but let's put focus where it belongs - on the studios.

Not only is BD capable of 7.1 audio, it is rarin' to go with it! There are players which are fully capable of uncompressed 7.1 delivery, and studios just aren't backing up the capability with the product.

I've felt, from day one, that Blu-ray (and HD DVD) is a step beyond what Hollywood was truly ready for. As the grain, and flaws of older films become readily visible, and we not only see, but hear the flaws which were covered up by noisy theaters, and DVD quality for all these years.

My opinion is that I'd rather have something that is a step ahead of the pros and be amazed when they deliver, rather than wonder what it is that I'm missing everytime I hear and watch a film.

 

[allargon]

Grain is not a flaw. It's part of film. Grain was always present in theaters. Unless you are under 20, you probably just ignored it.

IMHO, 7.1 is overrated. There are quite a few Lionsgate and New Line films that have 7.1.

 

[aberkowitz]

The biggest question has to be whether or not this is because the studios are chincy, or if the original films are only being mastered in 5.1.

Probably a little bit of both. I don't think there's much incentive for films to be mastered in anything but 5.1 because 99% of the DVD buying/watching population has 5.1 or less (and I'd guess that 90% of that group is watching the movie from their TV speakers). The group of 6.1/7.1 watchers is so tiny that the studios just don't see the need to release anything but 5.1.

 

[itschris]

I have to be honest, in my buddies dedicated theater ($200K +) I really don't notice any benefit of 7.1 over 5.1. In fact, I would say there's even a bit more localization which in some cases almost detracts from the movie. I've sat there just watching a movie for enjoyment and other times to actually test theories and technology. I think a well setup 5.1 system creates a more realistic soundfield.

Thinking back, because the movie is 2d and your eyes can't pick up any peripheral images, it almost creates a conflct when you hear very distinct sounds to the sides and behind you because you don't have the visual space of your normal eye view. Ambient sounds and crossovers work just fine because your brain it seems can correlate the sound it's hearing to what you just saw or that the sound makes sense in the scene.

I can't remember what movie it was, but there were two people tallking and someone started talking from behind and moved into the frame. I remember thinking that that just didn't work right. It was almost like your own perspective audio and just didn't seem right. Also too, it has to do with how the siound was mastered, but I don't think you'll be missing much at all if you don't have 7.1.

 

[Biggiesized]

I'll bet ya LOTR gets 7.1 treatment. It had DTS-ES and Dolby Digital EX on the Platinum Extended Editions.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Grain is not a flaw. It's part of film. Grain was always present in theaters. Unless you are under 20, you probably just ignored it.

IMHO, 7.1 is overrated. There are quite a few Lionsgate and New Line films that have 7.1.

If film is a reflection of reality, then grain most definitely is a flaw as my eyes, in reality, don't go outside and see 'grain'.

While a characteristic of film, it is still a failure of film to accurately duplicate the reality that passes through the lens.

Flaw <> bad

But, I think we will begin to see digital cameras that more accurately reflect the reality of the world around them and eliminate grain to bring us a more accurate environment within the film world. As we see more theaters move from analog presentation to digital, this will become more obvious to the average viewer who will benefit from 2K and 4K digital cinema.

While those who hold onto the 'grain is art' philosophy, this will be a loss... for many others, it will be a very large step forward.

 

[ParkerAudio]

I will tell you this, when I walk into Target and see Bluray movies selling for $29.99 I feel like there ought to be a 7.1 track included. Crazy price. And yet, I was desperate for entertainment that evening, and didn't want to go across town to Ballbuster just to find out that they didn't have my Bluray in stock, so I picked up a sure to be loser, Alien Vs Predator Requiem.

I thought that such a new title would be 7.1, which I have found is better on my system. However, I was treated to one of the worst 5.1 tracks that I ever heard. So much for having the latest technology.

 

[GlocksRock]

I though the AVP-R dts-hd ma track sounded pretty good.

 

[ParkerAudio]

I just didn't think it was as clean and clear as some of the other Bluray soundtracks I have heard. Resident Evil Extinction was great on my system. Probably just a preference.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I just didn't think it was as clean and clear as some of the other Bluray soundtracks I have heard. Resident Evil Extinction was great on my system. Probably just a preference.

Remember, if you put a 6 year old in a Ferrari he will still get out driven by an Andretti in a Yugo.

Just because you have the latest and greatest format, doesn't mean that studios have quite figured out how to deliver the best possible content on that format at this time. They will improve, as they did with DVD before. Not all of the titles will warrant the improvements, and despite higher pricing, you have to remember that BD volume is sitting at 1/10th of DVD on the best of days, and typically may fall into the 1/20th or less area for units sold.

There will be some growing pains for sure, but it's good to have a TV that's ready for the best that come along (Pixar) and the studios that are willing to delve beyond DVD standards (Disney).

It'll be a bit frustrating while everyone gets on board for sure... Where's our announcement by Paramount for Iron Man on BD?

 

[ParkerAudio]

good point.

 

[Biggiesized]

How can you expect an announcement about Iron Man on BD when it hasn't even released yet?! They don't want to cannabalize their own box office sales!

 

[mtrycrafts]

If film is a reflection of reality, then grain most definitely is a flaw as my eyes, in reality, don't go outside and see 'grain'.
.

Well, that would certainly depend on the film maker what is his intent. Certainly not all film is a reflection of reality and the ones that are, may also have grain in certain parts to reflect other artistic intent of the maker.

But, yes, it can be a flaw, or not.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
Thinking back, because the movie is 2d and your eyes can't pick up any peripheral images, it almost creates a conflct when you hear very distinct sounds to the sides and behind you because you don't have the visual space of your normal eye view. Ambient sounds and crossovers work just fine because your brain it seems can correlate the sound it's hearing to what you just saw or that the sound makes sense in the scene.
.

Well, film is in one plane for sure but can reflect 3d to the front
Even in real life, while your periphery is wider than the screen, you don't see behind you, yet, you can hear a car coming towards you from the back while walking. You can ignore it or turn around. Or, a plane flying overhead and you are looking ahead soundfield in life is all encompassing. Films try to reflect this.

 

[BMXTRIX]

How can you expect an announcement about Iron Man on BD when it hasn't even released yet?! They don't want to cannabalize their own box office sales!

Heh - I hope your kidding.

I don't want a date - just tell me that it WILL be released on BD. It's like saying that if they announced that Iron Man would be released on DVD that it would impact movie ticket sales.

At the end of the day - come Thursday at 8:00PM - I will likely find a theater showing it and be enjoying the film... Then still dump 25 bucks on it on Blu-ray via Amazon.

Not gonna spend one cent on the DVD though.

 

[tn001d]

This thread is about why there arent more 7.1 releases of movies on Blu-ray.

Personally i think 6.1 makes more sense to me, but that is beyond the scope of this thread.

Many DVD releases were in 6.1... and now few Blu-ray are 7.1.

If a DVD version was in 6.1, then the Blu-ray must also be in my opionion.