Bass Crossover Issue with RX-V659

[PENG]

Zumbo,
What I wanted to do was to have a different crossover for the mains than the surrounds, which I can't do. Mike

I could be wrong but I thought most sub $1.5K receivers do not have this capability except for some Sony ES models. My ex Sony 1ES & 4ES had it, but my RX-V659, AVR-1705 & AVR-3805 do not have this feature. People around here don't like Sony very much but this is one rare (in the low/mid end) feature that they do have.

 

[Tomorrow]

I'll say thanks. You're spot on.

FL Mike,
By definition that is how bass management works. 'Large' means send that speaker/channel a full range signal whereas 'Small' means redirect the bass below the xover for that channel to the subwoofer. That is why you have to set the mains to Large to enable the 'both' setting - Both means send the mains a full range signal AND also send bass below the xover to the sub (hence the mains and the sub are both playing the bass; Onkyo calls this feature 'double bass' which is more descriptive of what is happening).

This has been discussed a few times over the years and is always a point of confusion. One must differentiate between bass and LFE. On most Yamaha receivers (and I'd guess most others), the choice between the "subwoofer" out and the "both" out applies only to the LFE channel in DD or DTS. It does not apply to "bass" per se, even though it is called that on the receiver. I don't think there is even a defined, consensus definition for what exactly is included in the term "bass" (i.e. what frequencies?). If the mains are set to "Large", then a full range signal will be sent to the mains. The LFE is separate from that signal. If the mains are set to "large", then the crossover that he sets will not apply to them...only to the center and surrounds. That's all that setting does.

In other words, I can set my mains to large and receive the full-range signal minus the LFE information, and I can set the bass (LFE) out to the subwoofer-only in that configuration...the sub then, and only the sub will be receiving the LFE channel information. (I'd still be surprised if the RX-V659 does not have this feature.)

In the reference I gave for Gene's review, I believe he was discussing the feature that allows the subwoofer, in 2-channel, to play all the information below the set crossover point...namely the "bass" (as opposed to the LFE) as MDS has indicated.

But then, as I stated early on, I'm a goofy and easily dazed old man.

 

[zumbo]

I could be wrong but I thought most sub $1.5K receivers do not have this capability except for some Sony ES models. My ex Sony 1ES & 4ES had it, but my RX-V659, AVR-1705 & AVR-3805 do not have this feature. People around here don't like Sony very much but this is one rare (in the low/mid end) feature that they do have.

Pretty sure most HK A/V receivers offer separate crossovers for each speaker. Not enough to get me to want one.

 

[Nomo]

This has been discussed a few times over the years and is always a point of confusion. One must differentiate between bass and LFE. On most Yamaha receivers (and I'd guess most others), the choice between the "subwoofer" out and the "both" out applies only to the LFE channel in DD or DTS. It does not apply to "bass" per se, even though it is called that on the receiver. I don't think there is even a defined, consensus definition for what exactly is included in the term "bass" (i.e. what frequencies?). If the mains are set to "Large", then a full range signal will be sent to the mains. The LFE is separate from that signal. If the mains are set to "large", then the crossover that he sets will not apply to them...only to the center and surrounds. That's all that setting does.

In other words, I can set my mains to large and receive the full-range signal minus the LFE information, and I can set the bass (LFE) out to the subwoofer-only in that configuration...the sub then, and only the sub will be receiving the LFE channel information. (I'd still be surprised if the RX-V659 does not have this feature.)

In the reference I gave for Gene's review, I believe he was discussing the feature that allows the subwoofer, in 2-channel, to play all the information below the set crossover point...namely the "bass" (as opposed to the LFE) as MDS has indicated.

But then, as I stated early on, I'm a goofy and easily dazed old man.

It took me a long time to understand this concept, but this is my understaning of the principle as well.

 

[MDS]

In other words, I can set my mains to large and receive the full-range signal minus the LFE information, and I can set the bass (LFE) out to the subwoofer-only in that configuration...the sub then, and only the sub will be receiving the LFE channel information. (I'd still be surprised if the RX-V659 does not have this feature.)

Absolutely correct. The LFE *always* goes to the sub unless you indicate subwoofer = no in the setup menu, in which case most receivers will automatically set the mains to Large and the LFE will be redirected to the mains. Regular 'bass' goes to the sub (or the mains if sub=no) for channels set to Small.

Geez, it's getting harder to answer these questions because you can't do it one or two sentences.

 

[PENG]

Pretty sure most HK A/V receivers offer separate crossovers for each speaker. Not enough to get me to want one.

I am sure you are right about the HK models.
Actually I just checked, even the 3806 can do it, so may be it was only the much older Denon and Yamaha models such as the AVR-3805, RX-V2500 that could not do it. I was too lazy to read online mauals. instead I based on what I remember when I traded in the Sony for the Denon and got a little disappointed to learn that I had to give us the ability to set different crossover frequencies for each channel.

 

[MDS]

As I've said before the CE industry very much follows a 'me too' attitude. I don't remember who was first, maybe HK, but a lot of recent receivers now have independent xover settings for each channel. As soon as one of them swaps out the blue LED lights (I blame HK for that trend, which I hate) for Red, all the others will follow in short order.

 

[Tomorrow]

Geez, it's getting harder to answer these questions because you can't do it one or two sentences.

Amen to that, MDS!

 

[AVRat]

I think Yamaha was the last of the major manufacturers to add the independent x-over feature to their receivers. Also, no two manufacturers implement bass management the same way so users should really download product manuals to make sure it does what they need before purchasing.

 

[darien87]

I went through the same thing when I bought my 661, but I went through it from the opposite side. I started off watching movies, then couldn't understand why my subs weren't working with music.

The problem is that the Yamaha manual is worded very poorly. So bad that it's hard to tell what the different settings do. I believe it says to set it one way for "natural" bass sound, and to set it another way for "rich" bass sound!!! What the hell?!?!? Of course I want natural bass, but I'd like it to sound rich too. What the hell am I supposed to choose?!?!?

Luckily, I stumbled across the solution on my own.