Why does a great product get a bad name?

[jamie2112]

I am wondering why with 1 post, someone on A>D can change peoples opinions of a well respected product like Acurus amps for instance. I asked on an earlier thread about Acurus amps and it seemed to me the general response was that Audioholics don't talk about Acurus amps because of a specific problem that I could find only one post on and no info on any other audio site except praise for the A500 Acurus amp. I cannot believe that 1 post on a problem 1 person had with a certain product starts an avalanche of negative opinions on most any audio product. Jump on the bandwagon of the uninformed I guess should be the motto. I thought I could rely on good advice on Audioholics but now I will do my own research. I still love this site I just wish more people would inform themselves properly.

 

[chadnliz]

You hit the nail on the head, someone says something and it far too often gets adopted as universal truth some sites are more offensive than others.
This site and others like can provide some great info on procedure and offer new ideas but when it comes to some subjects it is like the WWE....just accept its not real and entertain yourself with the insanity.

 

[MDS]

I don't know about the particular thread mentioned but I will say it is the nature of the beast.

Like...Onkyo receivers run hot, Yamaha receivers are bright, Klipsch speakers are bright, etc ad nauseum.

If you bought a particular brand and had problems with it you (well some people) will enter any thread on that product and tell the world how terrible it is. As with any kind of 'research' you need to gather the hard facts as well as weigh them against opinion and personal experiences to determine in your own mind where the truth lies (usually somewhere in the middle).

As an example, I'm a longtime fan and owner of Onkyo receivers and have never had one single problem with any of them. There was a scuttlebutt about the new receivers having 'popping' issues. Naturally the threads (on another forum) turned into thousands of posts with people who have never owned an Onkyo repeating this 'fact'. As it turned out, in that case anyway, this so-called popping was the tell-tale click when the receiver changes input sources or switches decoders - something every single model has done since the dawn of time. Now it very well could be that some of them have problems but the reality is that negative statements, well founded or not, carry far more weight than positive statements and everyone will jump on the bandwagon.

Here's another one: Toshiba TVs have 'volatile' settings. If you make a change to one of the built-in modes it automatically changes to 'preference' mode with your new settings. Lots of talk about how wrong that is and it must be a defect. Well guess what, Toshiba TVs have done that since the beginning of time and there is a good rationale for it - so you can't arbitrarily change the built in settings. After all, if you made a change, it IS now your 'preference'.

Just take it all in...and make your own decisions.

 

[davidtwotrees]

Actually, I am one of the ones that dumped TWO Acurus amps during the great Acurus scare of 07. Smiles. An extremely knowledgeble poster here was asked about a problem with an Acurus amplifier. He happened to look at the schematics for the amp and was AGHAST that they did not have any speaker protection circuitry. He went on to share why that was bad, using past examples in the industry, and how Acurus amps, esecially as they aged, would put your speakers at risk. I was vertically biamping my Canton tower speakers. These speakers are a BIG investment for me and the apple of my HT eye. I used his advise as a good excuse to sell the two Acurus A250's for almost $800 and use the proceeds to buy a nice panny plasma.
Are Acurus amps bad products? Gosh, I don't know. I certainly don't go around bad mouthing them. I just didn't really need the ones I had, and when I was told they could put my prized speaks at risk, sold them for a more worthwhile component. I would love to hear from the Acurus amp designer what they have to say about the lack of speaker protection.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I thought I could rely on good advice on Audioholics but now I will do my own research.

That was your mistake. If "do your own research" is all you learned from this site, it was a valuable lesson. I read reviews (whether on forums or in magazines) only as a way to learn about new products and view opinions. Final buying decisions are always based on what my own ears tell me.

 

[OttoMatic]

Jump on the bandwagon of the uninformed I guess should be the motto.... I thought I could rely on good advice on Audioholics but now I will do my own research. I still love this site I just wish more people would inform themselves properly.

Yep, jamie2112, you're absolutely right. While I enjoy this forum, I have repeatedly seen technically incorrect information posted. As you note, the bandwagon mentality is also prevalent, frequently with an attitude of "everything sounds the same." There is frequently little nuance in the discussion. So, yeah, you pretty much have to do your own research.

I'm sure that if Acurus amps were rampant with failures, or if they were frequently causing speakers to die, you would hear about it all over the web in forums like this. Like you said, you searched the web for problems with Acurus amps, and you didn't find much at all; certainly not the panic that was presented in your other thread. If (and that's still "if") some Acurus amps don't have speaker protection or whatever, does that mean they are bad amps? Hardly, and I would suspect that at least some other amps of high quality are designed in a similar fashion.

You've learned the correct lesson: be careful what you take from this site, and from random people on the Internet that generally have zero accountability for anything they "say."

Good luck!

 

[bandphan]

Your assements are correct, take everything with agrain of salt, follow up with due diligence, there is alot of good advice out here, along with the bad.
Dont get discouraged.

 

[mudrummer99]

Like...Onkyo receivers run hot, Yamaha receivers are bright, Klipsch speakers are bright, etc ad nauseum.

If this is true, then I should have a nice tan from my audio equipment

Mike

 

[jamie2112]

Sweet a tan from my system now why didn't I think of that......What kind of snake oil do you use to get that healthy glow?

 

[jonnythan]

This is a forum. People can say whatever they want.

Some people know what they're talking about, some people don't. That's the nature of a public forum.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I cannot believe that 1 post on a problem 1 person had with a certain product starts an avalanche of negative opinions on most any audio product. Jump on the bandwagon of the uninformed I guess should be the motto. I thought I could rely on good advice on Audioholics but now I will do my own research. I still love this site I just wish more people would inform themselves properly.

This is basically what happened.

A member brought his Acurus 200X3 amp to a repair center. The technician opened up the amp and found out that there was not a speaker-protection circuit. Yes, the 200X3 amp had fuses, but no advanced speaker-protection circuits found in a lot of newer amps these days like Emotiva, McIntosh, Sunfire, Outlaw Audio, etc.

Another member pointed out that there had been numerous reports of amps damaging speakers when the amps died because the D/C voltage got through the amp fuses and reached the speaker drivers.

There are no guarantees. The Acurus amps could last 100 years for all we know. And they may never cause any damage to any speakers.

I love Acurus. I still use 3 Acurus RL-11 preamps, instead of a receiver or pre-pro.

If I had a $1,000 speaker system, I would be willing to take a chance. But my speaker system is retailed for $13,400, and I'm just not willing to take that chance.

This forum provides opinions and informations that we know and believe in as individuals.

I never speaker for SETH or TLS Guy or Greg or Andrew or GlocksRock or Joe or anybody else. We all speak our own minds.

 

[majorloser]

There's a lot of people that swear by B&K equipment, but I've had nothing but problems.

 

[Jack Hammer]

I am wondering why with 1 post, someone on A>D can change peoples opinions...

Welcome to the internet!

Gene or Clint had a great post a while back in some thread about what it takes to become a well respected internet guru. Went something like this:
read everything you can on all sites available about things you have no personal experience with.
ask a few questions and reply to as many posts as possible to get your post count up.
Start regurgitating what others are saying and replying to as many threads as you can to get your name out.
Suddenly be respected for your detailed "knowlege" and "authoratative' grasp of all things related to the forum, even though you likely have never seen or actually dealt with any of the items you "know" so much about.


Jack

 

[jamie2112]

You are 100 percent right on that, Thanks.....

 

[mtrycrafts]

...- something every single model has done since the dawn of time. ...

Then we should be digging one up in an archaeological dig pretty soon. LOL

 

[mtrycrafts]

... As you note, the bandwagon mentality is also prevalent, frequently with an attitude of "everything sounds the same."
Good luck!

That is just your jaded outlook on AH. there is no such thing as 'everything sounds the same' nor is it preached as such. some things sound different.
So, in the end, you are helping pile that bandwagon higher.

 

[chadnliz]

That is just your jaded outlook on AH. there is no such thing as 'everything sounds the same' nor is it preached as such. some things sound different.
So, in the end, you are helping pile that bandwagon higher.

Keep the blinders on..they wiil help you sleep better at night!

 

[majorloser]

Keep the blinders on..they wiil help you sleep better at night!

And you realize the same can be said for your point of view.

 

[majorloser]

You've learned the correct lesson: be careful what you take from this site, and from random people on the Internet that generally have zero accountability for anything they "say."

That applies to EVERY forum.

 

[TLS Guy]

This is basically what happened.

A member brought his Acurus 200X3 amp to a repair center. The technician opened up the amp and found out that there was not a speaker-protection circuit. Yes, the 200X3 amp had fuses, but no advanced speaker-protection circuits found in a lot of newer amps these days like Emotiva, McIntosh, Sunfire, Outlaw Audio, etc.

Another member pointed out that there had been numerous reports of amps damaging speakers when the amps died because the D/C voltage got through the amp fuses and reached the speaker drivers.

There are no guarantees. The Acurus amps could last 100 years for all we know. And they may never cause any damage to any speakers.

I love Acurus. I still use 3 Acurus RL-11 preamps, instead of a receiver or pre-pro.

If I had a $1,000 speaker system, I would be willing to take a chance. But my speaker system is retailed for $13,400, and I'm just not willing to take that chance.

This forum provides opinions and informations that we know and believe in as individuals.

I never speaker for SETH or TLS Guy or Greg or Andrew or GlocksRock or Joe or anybody else. We all speak our own minds.

That is correct. There was no complaint about the sound of the Acurus. The problem is speaker protection. Remember I lived through the era of direct coupled solid state power amps before speaker protection. All solid state devices have a time temperature failure curve. Now the usual failure mode if output devices is short circuit. When that happens the entire power rail voltage is connected to your woofer. That will pop your woofer voice coil right out of th gap and do severe damage to the woofer.

The best protection is now MOSFET opto couplers like used on the outlaws.

I strongly recommend that if you want to use your Acurus amp you add this unit to each channel.

http://www.next.gr/shop/shop.php?c=53&x=Speaker_Protection_Circuit