about 7.1

[enoch]

yup i checked and actually had my friend look too and they are correct. I thought about putting banana plugs on the end so that they are easier to connect to the receiver.

 

[Pyrrho]

There is no right or wrong when it comes to personal preference. I too perfer to have a more full surround sound and want to make use of all 7 speakers and 7 amp channels that I payed for.

I explained how he might do what he said he wanted to do. However, it is altering the sound from the original intention. If he (or you) wish to do that, that is fine. But it is good to know what one is doing, regardless of one's preferences.

By the way, your comment about paying for 7.1 speakers and amplification reminds me of what so many people have said about not liking wide screen movies on their standard TVs. They paid for the whole screen, so they want picture on all of it. The same, in reverse, is true of some people with wide screen TVs when watching 4:3 content. Many people distort and/or crop the picture to fit their screens. Of course, they are free to do as they wish. But it isn't giving them the picture that was originally intended.

Likewise, one may decide to turn up the subwoofer way beyond the "proper" level. One may set such things as one wishes. Still, it is good to know what one is doing when one is altering the signal from the original intentions of those who made it.

Indeed, the channel balance for the setup may be altered to any setting one prefers. But would you say that there is no right way to do this, that it is purely a matter of personal preference?

I think it is misleading to simply say that there is no right or wrong to these things. There is recreating the original as accurately as possible, and there is altering the original to suit one's tastes. Certainly, it is fine to alter things to one's personal taste. But it is good to know that that is what one is doing.

 

[tomd51]

I think what others had mentioned enoch is that several of the Yamaha receivers misinterpret the polarity (speaker check) option in the 'Auto Setup' feature. Having owned both the Yamaha RX-V2500 and RX-V659, I can confirm this.

I would suggest ignoring the error during the 'Auto Setup' setp or skip this test altogether when you run it. As for your dialogue issue, you can test the levels of your speakers as previously mentioned with an SPL meter ($40 from Radio Shack), increase the volume of your center channel to compensate for the weakness or use the 5/7 channel Stereo mode. Chances are either the dialogue from the source is soft or if it's on almost everything you watch, it's likely the center channel can't keep up with the other speakers without boosting the center channel level a few additional dBs... -TD

 

[Pyrrho]

yup i checked and actually had my friend look too and they are correct. I thought about putting banana plugs on the end so that they are easier to connect to the receiver.

In that case, I would leave them as is. I might run the YPAO program again to see if it still says that the polarity is wrong, and if so, I might contact Yamaha and ask them about it. Or I might just sit back and enjoy the music, and not worry about it.

You can try all of the DSP modes in your receiver to see what you like best. With Yamaha receivers, typically there are many adjustments possible with many different DSP modes. I personally like trying to simply recreate the sound as originally intended, but many people like to process the sound in various ways, and Yamaha is very accommodating for such things. Trying out all of the various modes with different types of sounds can probably keep you busy for many hours.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...are you saying that i should change the polarity for those 2 speakers. like +to-?

NO!

(+) should connect to (+), and (-) should connect to (-).

 

[enoch]

ok just making sure, that would not make any sense to me at all. If someone did hook up the polarity wrong....you wouldnt get any sound out of the speaker correct?

 

[GlocksRock]

I explained how he might do what he said he wanted to do. However, it is altering the sound from the original intention. If he (or you) wish to do that, that is fine. But it is good to know what one is doing, regardless of one's preferences.

By the way, your comment about paying for 7.1 speakers and amplification reminds me of what so many people have said about not liking wide screen movies on their standard TVs. They paid for the whole screen, so they want picture on all of it. The same, in reverse, is true of some people with wide screen TVs when watching 4:3 content. Many people distort and/or crop the picture to fit their screens. Of course, they are free to do as they wish. But it isn't giving them the picture that was originally intended.

Likewise, one may decide to turn up the subwoofer way beyond the "proper" level. One may set such things as one wishes. Still, it is good to know what one is doing when one is altering the signal from the original intentions of those who made it.

Indeed, the channel balance for the setup may be altered to any setting one prefers. But would you say that there is no right way to do this, that it is purely a matter of personal preference?

I think it is misleading to simply say that there is no right or wrong to these things. There is recreating the original as accurately as possible, and there is altering the original to suit one's tastes. Certainly, it is fine to alter things to one's personal taste. But it is good to know that that is what one is doing.

I say this in regards to using PLIIx for a Dolby Digital or dts 5.1 signal, neither choice is right or wrong, as it's a personal preference wether or not to overlay a PLIIx or ES/EX decoder on top of the original track. What the PLIIx does is direct the sounds to where they should be in relation to what is being displayed. For instance if an airplane is flying over from front to back, the sound should be coming from front to rear, not front to sides, what the PLIIx decoder does is redirect (or misdirect as you say) the sound from the side to the rears where they should be, even if it was intended by the director/producer to be coming from the sides.

 

[tomd51]

ok just making sure, that would not make any sense to me at all. If someone did hook up the polarity wrong....you wouldnt get any sound out of the speaker correct?

Yes, you would get sound, but it would be out of phase. It would be unfocused and would sound out of sorts... -TD

 

[enoch]

hum, i thought it wouldnt put out any sound at all, but anyways i know they are connected correctly.

So your saying the PLIIx adds the sound to the sides and then the back speakers. I dont see anything wrong with that, wouldnt that make it more surround sounding?

 

[Midcow2]

need to be carefull connecting two speakers to the same posts

what if i twist the wires of the front and back right togheter and placed them in the front right connector on the reciever and same for left?

You would also change the effective speaker ohms. Connecting two 8 ohm speakers in parallel, in effect makes the load 4 ohms.

A good center speaker is where the voice dialog sound should come out; maybe upgrading your center speaker is the answer.

 

[GlocksRock]

So your saying the PLIIx adds the sound to the sides and then the back speakers. I dont see anything wrong with that, wouldnt that make it more surround sounding?

Exactly... The PLIIx decoder takes the surround information and creates a stereo surround back field to make the sound come from where the should be in relation to what is being displayed on the tv, vs the Dolby EX decoder that only creates a mono surround back field. I wouldn't say that the sounds are misdirected, I would say they are properly directed. Dolby knows what they are doing, it's not like their decoders are going to screw up the track so that dialog is going to be directed to the surrounds.

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic_IIx.html

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For instance if an airplane is flying over from front to back, the sound should be coming from front to rear, not front to sides, what the PLIIx decoder does is redirect (or misdirect as you say) the sound from the side to the rears where they should be, even if it was intended by the director/producer to be coming from the sides.

Actually if you have Bipolar speakers and you place them on the sides, but face the drivers to the front and back, the imaging sound will go behind you as if the speakers were placed behind you.

I have my BP7001SCs to the sides, but the drivers are facing the front and back. So they actually image the sound very far behind me as if the speakers were placed behind me!

Same thing with the Front Left & Right speakers! The sound imaging actually goes BEHIND the speakers as if the [Plane/Train] sounds were going THROUGH the WALL!

 

[GlocksRock]

Actually if you have Bipolar speakers and you place them on the sides, but face the drivers to the front and back, the imaging sound will go behind you as if the speakers were placed behind you.

I have my BP7001SCs to the sides, but the drivers are facing the front and back. So they actually image the sound very far behind me as if the speakers were placed behind me!

Same thing with the Front Left & Right speakers! The sound imaging actually goes BEHIND the speakers as if the [Plane/Train] sounds were going THROUGH the WALL!

Not everyone is as fortunate as us to have such kiss @ss speakers!!

I never really gave that a thought, but the way the BP2X are designed, they kinda do that already, but I wonder how well that would work if I turned my BP10s to face to the sides instead of front to back.

 

[tomd51]

True, bipolars are going to behave differently, but the majority of speakers (besides dedicated surrounds) are direct radiating.

The OP stated earlier that he's using Infinity TSS 1200 for speakers... -TD

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Exactly... The PLIIx decoder takes the surround information and creates a stereo surround back field to make the sound come from where the should be in relation to what is being displayed on the tv, vs the Dolby EX decoder that only creates a mono surround back field. I wouldn't say that the sounds are misdirected, I would say they are properly directed. Dolby knows what they are doing, it's not like their decoders are going to screw up the track so that dialog is going to be directed to the surrounds.

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic_IIx.html

I agree that there is no "Right" or "Wrong" here.

How does anyone know for SURE exactly what is INTENDED?

The KEY is that it needs to SOUND GOOD to US, not THEM.

If CD music sounds better than LIVE music to me, then I would pick CD music. Whatever sounds better!

We can't let other people dictate how we should listen and what we should listen to. Whatever sounds better is the "Correct".

There will always be 2 different camps: those who want LESS processing, and those who want MORE processing. Neither camp is WRONG.

I don't even use a receiver, so obviously I fall in the LESS Processing camp.

Heck, I would rather spend $4,500 on 3 Bryston Pure Analog Preamps with absolutely no digital processors than a receiver will all the bells and whistles.

I wonder why DTS doesn't make a DTS-IIx?

**hee**hee**

I crack myself up.

 

[GlocksRock]

I wonder why DTS doesn't make a DTS-IIx?

**hee**hee**

I crack myself up.

Probably because they have dts neo 6

and the PLIIx and dts neo 6 aren't dsp's they are decoders, just like the ones built in to your blu ray player that decode the dolby digital/dts signal wich is converted to analog and sent out over the analog outputs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not everyone is as fortunate as us to have such kiss @ss speakers!!

I never really gave that a thought, but the way the BP2X are designed, they kinda do that already, but I wonder how well that would work if I turned my BP10s to face to the sides instead of front to back.

Yes, I agree. Not everyone is fortunate like us to have such kiss a$$ speakers!

Yes, I think you may find it interesting to place the BP10s so that the drivers are facing the front of the room and the back of the room, instead of firing directly to your ears and to the side walls.

These Bipolars can IMAGE like no other! You will think the sound is coming from the back of your HOUSE going through the Front Wall!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

True, bipolars are going to behave differently, but the majority of speakers (besides dedicated surrounds) are direct radiating.

The OP stated earlier that he's using Infinity TSS 1200 for speakers... -TD

Well, then... he's just going to have to buy new bipolar speakers!

just kidding!

 

[GlocksRock]

The BP10s are directly behind me right now, and facing front to back, so I wonder how they would sound if they were turned to face toward the side walls.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Probably because they have dts neo 6

and the PLIIx and dts neo 6 aren't dsp's they are decoders, just like the ones built in to your blu ray player that decode the dolby digital/dts signal wich is converted to analog and sent out over the analog outputs.

Oh, geez, I totally forgot about that Neo 6!

Well, actually my Denon DVD-3910 only has plain DTS & Dolby Digital decoders. The DVD-3800BD has decoders for DTS, DD, DD+, DTS-HR, & DTS-MA. Neither one has DD EX, or DTS ES, or DTS Neo, etc.

I guess it's up for interpretation, but to me a "Decoder" just decodes the original recorded data, not adding any more channels (matrix). So by this definition, DPL-IIx is not a decoder. It is a processor that takes the decoded 5.1 data from DD, DTS, DD+, TrueHD, & DTS-HD and matrix the data into 7.1.

It's kind of like un-zipping a computer file. When you unzip a 50 MB file, you are not adding any more information. You get exactly a 50 MB file.

When studios produce the 5.1 soundtrack, decoding it should still produce exactly the 5.1 soundtrack, not 7.1.

But you're saying that DPL-IIx and DTS Neo are actually decoders?