can ID speakers compete?

[bkmerrill]

so i went to an audio store and was told by several people that ID companies only compete bc of the difficulty of customers to set up an a/b situation with more reputable speaker companies to compare. what do yall think of the av123s swans and others compared to companies like b&w, klipsch, revel, or more mainstream companies...they seemed to be convinced that the b&w 684's are the best towers in my price range, but to me they didnt sound THAT great...they were smooth, but there was something lacking..

what do yall think about the ID companies..are they legitimate, quality products with quality sound, durable components etc.? im confused now....

 

[Matt34]

If Ford told you that Chevy sucks are you going to take their word for it?


A majority of ID companies has a 30-45 day no risk trail period so you can test them out at home.

 

[fredk]

Bull doodoo. Do some research. Check out reviews here at audioholics on ID brands and see what the pros think of them compared to B&M distributed speakers.

Search here and on the ID company web sites for people who have done direct a/b comparisons and see what they say.

In fact, the B&M stores I went into (not many I will admit) didn't have the proper facilities to do an a/b (using a switch, not swapping cables).

Want to have some fun? After doing a little reading, get a set of ID fronts, go back to that dealer and tell him you want to bring in a pair of speakers for an a/b. See what he says.

Heck, Apieron offers free shipping both ways, so all it would cost you is a little of your time.

FWIW, for less than those 684s you can get yourself a set of ID speakers that are compareable to the B&W 700 line.

Fred (suspected ID fanboy )

 

[fredk]

As to legitimacy, I am fortunate enough to live close to one of those companies. I visited the Axiom factory, had a listen and got a tour.

Real people, real products and really really nice sound. I'm sure others like AV123 etc. are just as credible.

Fred

 

[bandphan]

they seemed to be convinced that the b&w 684's are the best towers in my price range, but to me they didnt sound THAT great...they were smooth, but there was something lacking...

they are selling. As for the they, did they offer any legit reasons for id companies not being worthy of consideration? Of course they want you to buy from them, and thats ok, but dont let someone tell you what you like. Did you demo any other speakers in or out of your price range? Did you bring in music that you were familiar with? I have never bought from an id, but it doesnt mean i wouldnt if the circumstances were right. DEMO DEMO DEMO

 

[peterL]

I have no experience with ID speakers, although I wish I had auditioned a pair against my PSBs when I made my purchase.

What I will say though is that I auditioned B&W as well (the older 60X series at the time). I felt the same way. They were too smooth and ended up being boring. Also, the dealer told me about the same thing. Ignore him and listen to others. You will find your speaker.

I'd listen to PSB, and Monitor Audio for a start. I liked those. Also try Paradigm. I didn't like those, but they were different from B&W. I also want to hear some Energy speakers when I start looking for bookshelves for a bedroom system in another year or so.

If I had it to do over again, I'd probably try Aperion. I like the shipping both ways and I think their stuff looks really nice.

 

[silversurfer]

Ask the dealer if you could bring in a pair of ID speakers to compare. Better yet, ask about their return policy, and possibly do some comparisions at home. The longer the comparison, the better decision you will make.

 

[calnbs]

I will put in my $.02 before some fancy smancy guy comes in here and says that all ID speakers are crap and that their $20,000 speakers are the only legit speakers.

Do your research here and at avsforum. If these ID speakers such as eD, AV123, Axiom, etc are sooo fake, why are some of these companies are back ordered until the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ? There is a reason something can not be kept on the shelf....because MAY BE...... its SELLING? Some of these owners to these ID speakers have worked for some big companies for decades before starting their own.

Which speaker should you go for? Up to you wheather its ID or BM. But let I am more than happy with mine as far as sound quality goes. As for speaker's 'finished', most of these expensive BM speakers can't even touch.

 

[codexp3]

I'm sure ID speakers are competitive to a certain price point. I don't think you're going to find a pair that sounds as good as the Ultima2 line, Watt Puppies, or KEF Reference. That's not the aim of ID companies.

 

[rnatalli]

ID companies have no middlemen, but mainstream have economies of scale. In the end, it all comes out in the wash. ID speakers did force mainstream to lower their margins and take advantage of those economies of scale. ID speakers are just as good as mainstream speakers. Listen for yourself and decide what you like best.

Oh, and find another audio store if yours is telling you B&W is the best in your price range. What's best if what you like not what they tell you.

 

[silversurfer]

Oh, and find another audio store if yours is telling you B&W is the best in your price range. What's best if what you like not what they tell you.

thumbs up on that one.

 

[jcPanny]

ID Companies

Ask the clerk what the cost is on one of the speaker models you are interested in. It is probably about half of the retail price. It is easy for ID companies to compete and in many cases provide more value because the cut out the middle man and the marketing and distribution costs.

Ask the local store to put their product where their mouth is and request an in home demo vs. the top ID speakers on your list. All have 30+ day return policies and some are risk free (they pay return shipping). Audio is subjective so let your ears decide.

 

[tomd51]

They Sure Can...

I think both ID and B&M distributed speakers have a place. Some folks just can't get the "warm & fuzzies" from ID companies because they're not able to physically hop in the car and drive to the store. As silly as that might seem to some, it's a serious factor in their decision making.

B&M offers advantages of being able to deal directly with someone you may be able to develop a rapport with, something you'll have a tough time doing with ID sellers. B&M also allows you the convenience of demoing speakers in store, while not the best gauge as it's not your equipment and listening environment they're working with, it does provide some starting point to work with.

ID sellers (more so as of late) are offering better and better products coupled with very convenient return policies and highly competitive pricing, making it easier to allow prospective buyers the opportunity to demo their products in home, where ideally you'll get the best gauge for how they'll perform and if they're right for you.

While some B&M distributors can offer some excellent products, ID can as well. To say B&M doesn't compare in pricing, quality, etc. to ID and vice-versa, it's a bit narrow-minded. They both can provide a good product, quality customer service and at a decent price, whether they do or not is up to the distributor themselves. Suffice it to say, ID can certainly compete with B&M and both have a place in business... -TD

 

[bkmerrill]

yeah, i know hes being a salesman, and im not gonna up and buy new speakers bc he says theyre good...i wasnt pleased with the b&w 684s i just felt they were boring, smooth yes, but boring....i a/b'd them with klipsch rf62s for contrast, and while the klipsch were bright (which is their reputation), i almost liked them more. Anybody know how the different ID brands compare as far as sound goes? i like to hear it before i buy it, but if i can return it no questions asked i would consider...its not that im leaning away from ID, its that im not sure which to choose based on my sound taste...i am a younger listener, and like it a little bright (typical i know) for music, but if i want to watch a movie i figure im gonna need a good center to fill in the mids for the towers which may be a little too bright. i dunno, what do yall recommend based on hearing my opinions on the sounds of the klipsch vs b&w? i felt like the klipsch was TOO bright and the b&w was smooth but boring, i need something in between...recommendations?!

 

[fredk]

Listen to something like Paradigm studios or the B&W 700s and see if you like those better. I have read many times that these two lines give you a very clean detailed sound and. I have listened to Studio 20s 40s and 60s and would agree with that assesment.

RE: bright. Its an overused and not well understood term. You, and according to the research, most others, like a speaker with a flat frequency response that produces clean sound: Nothing exagerated, nothing muted.

I have listened to Axioms speakers and think they have a similar sound to the speakers mentioned above. I have read a/b comparisons with both of the above and the Axiom M80 is said to be similar/better than the Studio 100, and very close to the B&W 703 and Paradigm Monitor 11.

I havn't listened to other ID brands.

Hope this helps get you started.

Fred

 

[Exit]

“can ID speakers compete?”

ID companies are competing effectively so there is no question of can they compete. Big box B&M stores are all that Joe Public knows about and he will go there and buy Bose and Monster Cables. Audio enthusiasts will go to small B&M stores to hear everything for themselves and many will buy. But there are a group of dedicated enthusiasts who want top quality at a discount price who will shop ID companies. Electronics are no-brainer commodities where ID makes a lot of sense. Top notch subwoofers are so expensive in B&M stores that again it is a no-brainer for ID purchases, even though they are never heard before purchase in most cases. About the only product in question is speakers, because everyone knows you should listen to them and buy what you personally like. Well a lot of people are disappointed in what they find in the B&M stores as far as price and selection and sometimes sound. A lot of enthusiasts are willing to take a chance on well reviewed and rated speakers and buy ID without even hearing them in advance. That is why there are probably 10 or 20 ID speaker manufacturers thriving. Do all the buyers hear their speakers in advance of purchase? No. Does that mean buyers are any less the wise than buying at a B&M store? No, equivalent quality at a B&M store is often out of reach financially so there is no competition for many ID shoppers.

 

[rlj676]

They definitely compete, and for the dollar, beat nearly anything you'll find in B&M in finish and sound many times. Keep researching comparisons online and find this theme repeated.

For a quick example, a buddy of mine brought over his Dynaudio 52's (now selling for $1300 with exchange rates) to compare to my new AV123 ELT525's. To say the difference was nearly inaudible is to put it minimal (these two speakers appear to have a very similar signature it turns out.) My friend was truly stretching to find what HIS speakers did better. For a difference of $1000 he felt he had slightly better "background detail" and maybe a bit more bass. The ELT's had a nicer finish and a more solid cabinet givent the knuckle rap test. I was quite shocked, and he more so.

When I was looking at B&W 703's and 704's I came to the conclusion (through tons of online research) I could get something comparable/better than the 703's for half the price- AV123 Rocket 850's. Only problem is the backorder.

Last, if you want to listen to tower ID speakers, check their company forums out and post that you're looking for an audition. Many of the "fanboys" are excited enough about these speakers to turn their homes into private audition rooms for potential customers.

 

[Soundman]

They definitely compete, and for the dollar, beat nearly anything you'll find in B&M in finish and sound many times. Keep researching comparisons online and find this theme repeated.

For a quick example, a buddy of mine brought over his Dynaudio 52's (now selling for $1300 with exchange rates) to compare to my new AV123 ELT525's. To say the difference was nearly inaudible is to put it minimal (these two speakers appear to have a very similar signature it turns out.) My friend was truly stretching to find what HIS speakers did better. For a difference of $1000 he felt he had slightly better "background detail" and maybe a bit more bass. The ELT's had a nicer finish and a more solid cabinet givent the knuckle rap test. I was quite shocked, and he more so.

When I was looking at B&W 703's and 704's I came to the conclusion (through tons of online research) I could get something comparable/better than the 703's for half the price- AV123 Rocket 850's. Only problem is the backorder.

Last, if you want to listen to tower ID speakers, check their company forums out and post that you're looking for an audition. Many of the "fanboys" are excited enough about these speakers to turn their homes into private audition rooms for potential customers.

I agree with you 100%, Buddy! You have to spend some serious dough at a B&M to get the same fit, finish, and built quality as Rockets. I've done some listening and it's hard to beat the ID's as far as price goes. There are some great deals from time to time in the B&M's, but this market is competitive. It's all about the bottom line.

 

[j_garcia]

The REAL question is can mainstream compete with ID?

 

[gene]

Just b/c a product is ID, doesn't automatically make it a better value than B&M. So it really comes down to how well the product was engineered and if it meets a consumers needs. I agree with another poster on here, ID did kinda of rescale B&M to be more competitive. In the end, consumers win by choosing with their wallets.