Making Peace with Blu-ray

A

admin

Audioholics Robot
Staff member
I admit that I’ve had my share of anti-Blu-ray rants in the past. But that’s all over now. It’s time for the Toshib-ati to put away the pitchforks and just accept Blu-ray as the high- def disc format of choice. After all, there’s a bigger picture at stake for anyone who loves home theater.


Discuss "Making Peace with Blu-ray" here. Read the article.
 
D

davo

Full Audioholic
I view people who talk up all the down loaded movies they have with the same contempt as I did people with VCD's.
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
im sorry if im like a person that says the world is flat ... but really, downloads is NOT GONNA HAPPEN IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

the real rival of BD is still SD DVD (and it looks like its winning)

i repeat: the rest of the world (which probably accounts for at LEAST half of videos sold - wild guess) doesnt support high speed downloads. up to a few months ago, i still had dial up at work!
 
A

aarond

Full Audioholic
bd will be the next ld better but, joe six pack just doesn't care. the only way for it to become mainstream is when every movie you buy comes with both a bd & dvd. that would cost the manufacturer another 30 cents and he could get an extra 5 bucks for the movie. do you think that joe six pack is going to replace his 3 dvd players plus the one in the car with a bd i don't think so. it will be a niche market fueled by corporate greed.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
bd will be the next ld better but, joe six pack just doesn't care. the only way for it to become mainstream is when every movie you buy comes with both a bd & dvd. that would cost the manufacturer another 30 cents and he could get an extra 5 bucks for the movie. do you think that joe six pack is going to replace his 3 dvd players plus the one in the car with a bd i don't think so. it will be a niche market fueled by corporate greed.
That's absolutely right. The BD discs need a DVD layer, so they can play on standard DVD machines. If they don't it will disappear, and we will be left with low def. DVD for a long time.

I'm not going to invest until they make these kinds of moves. I want to know this Blue Ray is in for the long haul.

The nuclear option would be to discontinue DVD. However the race to the bottom is heading towards a bottomless pit, with most happy with atrocious standards, and dumb about everything technical to boot. Do you realize there is a huge segment of the population that does not know a car has pistons, and if they do have no idea what they do? That would not have been true 50 years ago.
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
There is a mass of the population that thinks their dvd player, hooked up into an rf modulator, to their tv, through RG-6 is as good as it gets.
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
There is a mass of the population that thinks their dvd player, hooked up into an rf modulator, to their tv, through RG-6 is as good as it gets.
Agreed, but as I and many others have said time and again the majority of the population just doesn't care. Most people watch the content not the image. That's why the often quoted 'truth' that plasma has better black levels than LCD means absolutely nothing to the majority of the population. [For what it's worth I think the black levels of LCD are good enough.]

I know many people who refer to DVDs as 'DVD tapes' because they still haven't gotten the idea of VHS tapes out of their head.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
We need $50 BD players.:D
That is the last thing we need. There is quite enough junk around already. We need to build for quality and long term reliability. The most expensive equipment you can buy is low priced junk. The most important starting question ask at the gestation of nay product is: - "Is it any good?" The worst way to go about it is start with an price point out of the back of some executives neck.
 
B

bancroft

Enthusiast
Average picture and sound good enough for average guy

I have strived to put together a system that makes my eyes and ears "bleed" with joy when it is fine tuned and has good source material. I also have come to realize,

I am the exception, not the rule.

I help so many people shop and upgrade to better systems. I leave their house without finishing my work of calibration because the wife wonders where the hell am I. But my friends don't care. Their new system is better than they had so they accept it. I go back and they wonder why I'm trying to fix something.To them, it looks great.

I think most people have a tendency to think their picture/sound is great because it helps them internally justify the money they just spent. Thats why Blu will have a very difficult time getting to the next level.

If people download movies and watch them on their 42" HDTV, they'll need their own water cooler to drag around with them while they brag to their buddy's what they can do at home. BLU won't matter. And that is the problem.

I will invest in the new stuff, and many of you will also. But, we are the "exception" and markets do not thrive these days by catering to us.
 
Wayde Robson

Wayde Robson

Audioholics Anchorman
I agree with the general consenus that DVD isn't going anywhere anytime soon and mainstream BD adoption is hardly a slam dunk. BDA and Sony need a strategy to grab mainstream consumer acceptance.

However, HDTV did a very good job convincing Joe Six Pack he needs one.

Why does a guy who doesn't know a pixel from a piston want to spend so much more than he has to on a TV?

Market research shows the HDTV and accompanying services (HD sat/cable) will continue a sales spike through 2012.

Is it possible that the buying public is destined for a techno-fatigue that kicks in after buying the HDTV and HD satellite/cable receiver - but before upgrading the disc format?
 
Midcow2

Midcow2

Banned
Plenty of $50 HD Players; BD equivalent of $50 in 10 years

We need $50 BD players.:D

LOL -there are plenty of $50 HD players now.

There will be a move over to BD completely and the cost will become a lot lower, but even though BD won out in format it is still in the early innovator stage; some people are just now getting their first DVD players.

People are just now being FORCED to get rid of analog TVs and how long has digiatl been around?

Total BD is still TEN(10) years in the future and they will cost the same as today but in todays dollars it will be equivalent to $50.
 
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K

kleinwl

Audioholic
I think BD is a niche. Downloadable content will rule. Most people don't have anything more than the 1watt speaker built into their TV. Given that the computer monitor is the same resolution (720p or 1080p) as a TV, the viewer really isn't giving anything up watching on their laptop or computer. Yes, it's a smaller screen... but the sound is about the same quality out of the built in audio chip as the TV audio chips. Sure, the speakers MAY be higher quality in the TV... but I doubt it.

Only once you have spent a grand or more on a speaker system AND a good quality TV, then you MAY observe a higher quality movie on a BD than a download.

As BD-ROM prices come down, you will see more BD Rips available for download. The main issue, is that few people have the money to pay for the higher quality audio/visual equipement necessary to appreciate the BD quality.
 
Jack Hammer

Jack Hammer

Audioholic Field Marshall
I'm not ready to give up on BD. I talk to people quite frequently who generally seem to be waiting for the $ to come down. The general consensus, from people who've only seen store displays, is that BD pq is "breathtaking" and they wish they could afford it. Most seem to think it's the next big thing. The downside is many of those people still don't have an HDTV.

On the other hand, most of those people have never heard of VOD. Those who have seem to think that VOD will offer the kind of poor pq that you see on Youtube. I really think BD needs to market itself better and possibly 'smear' VOD a bit to get to a point where it is the standard.

Jack
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
im sorry if im like a person that says the world is flat ... but really, downloads is NOT GONNA HAPPEN IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

the real rival of BD is still SD DVD (and it looks like its winning)

i repeat: the rest of the world (which probably accounts for at LEAST half of videos sold - wild guess) doesnt support high speed downloads. up to a few months ago, i still had dial up at work!
I agree that downloads cannot replace Blu-Ray in the near future. The amount of data is incredible, and a lot of people still have dial-up. With a disc in hand*, you can watch pretty much immediately (depending on the load time of your player ;)). With a downloaded movie, unless you wait for it all to download, you are running the risk of the data stream being interrupted, and consequently, your movie being interrupted. So, how long would it take, even with DSL or cable, to download the amount of data on the average Blu-Ray disc?

I also agree that DVD is here to stay, at least for the near future. There are way too many things on DVD that are not on Blu-Ray to make it completely obsolete any time soon. Plus, many people have problems with their Blu-Ray players (see the reviews at Amazon), which is not going to help the format become adopted.

Besides, if regular DVDs were discontinued, then plenty of poorly mastered Blu-Ray discs would appear. There are plenty of DVDs that don't live up to the capabilities of the format, and we can be sure that that will be the case with Blu-Ray as well.

_____________
* Of course, if you need to go to the store and get one, then it will not be immediate. But I have quite a few DVDs that I have not yet watched once; it is easy enough to "buy ahead" of what one can watch, and then it is there the moment one wants it.
 
J

JackT

Audioholic
Heh, like others here, I am also bemused by how some erstwhile HD-DVD advocates have lately found the HD digital download religion.

We have the spectacle of people who are upset about BR "winning" actually ROOTING for us to have NO HD disc format.

As an AV enthusiast who hopes to buy an HD players some day, I am very much pulling for the success of BR. I think ANYONE who wants to watch hi-def movies should be doing the same.

BTW, BR is showing healthy adoption numbers, and I think it will likely become widespread.
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
The only people I have met who care at all about Blu Ray or HD are serious videophiles, and let's face it, they are very much in the minority. Most people feel that standard DVD is plenty good enough (I certainly feel that way.) I also think that the sentiment expressed by my parents is common: "Oh sure, another new format. It was expensive enough switching from VHS to DVD, and next year they will announce yet another 'next big thing'."
 
B

Buckeye_Nut

Audioholic Field Marshall
as per usual...

I'll be watching a couple blu-rays tonight...

"Game Plan"......& "No country for old men" is on tonights watch list..

:D
 
A

autoboy

Audioholic
Let me address the multitude of mis-information on this thread...

The trouble with the computer home entertainment solution is compression. Today, high-def movie downloads mean Mpeg2 compressed files carrying 720P video with a 5.1 channel mix that doesn’t hold a candle to DTS-HD-Master Audio.
Flat out wrong. I can't believe that you are soaking this up without complaining. I thought audioholics would be better than this. High Def movie downloads are available with the much better h.264 compression. Most are at 720p24, including Apple TV and Xbox360, but Vudu offers 1080p24. Most agree that Xbox looks better. Resolution is not the end all be all. Compression artifacts and color are more important. Vudu also passes DD+5.1 which is at least an improvement over low bitrate DD5.1. It is converted to full bitrate DD5.1 to the receiver.

Yes, it’s the classic battle between scalability (computers) and upper-end quality (home electronics). Have you seen the electronics inside most computer equipment? Any traditional hi-fi nut would shudder to see switch mode power supplies and audio output IC chips. Whether you’re a hi-fi objectivist or pricey-cable Audiophile, we have to unite to keep standards in home electronics.
As long as the signal remains digital until it reaches your precious audio equipment, who the hell cares about better square waves passed by your HDMI cable? It is simple physics and is the sole reason digital computers work. There is NO degradation. You all know this.

I would like to address more info here, but I am running out of time. I'll say this:

There are a few other advantages to downloads that you may not consider. First, there is no reason we can't have an iPod for video. Drives are getting bigger. You will be able to carry your full collection of video anywhere you go. Already the boxes are getting small enough to be almost portable. This is huge for consumers. You won't need to have a DVD player in your car, in your house, in your hotel. Just carry your iVideo and plug it into the display port on the TV. This is the ultimate solution. In fact, the ultimate would be to play it from your phone into the TV without loss of quality. Wait for this in a few years, and wait for ones big enough for full 1080p24 versions in 10-15.

Second, there will be no need for distributing a single format in a store, which opens up the industry to a much larger # of formats. Once the movie studios settle on download as a viable business model, more companies will crop up like Vudu who will offer increased picture quality for those who care. There is no reason Vudu, getting crushed by it's competitors, couldn't shift it's strategy to enthusiasts, and offer higher bitrate DD+ and better higher bandwidth 1080p24. I upgraded my internet for Apple downloads, and bandwidth will just continue to expand. Those without bandwidth will just use DVDs or mail order BluRay.

BluRay does not need stores to survive anymore. The internet, distribution by Post Office, and standard mail order services can continue to support BluRay and DVD. BluRay does not have to beat DVD. It just needs to get big enough to survive alongside it. This was the benefit of HD-DVD with flip disc, except that consumers were not far sighted enough to realize the tremendous benefit flip disc was to the entire industry. Toshiba, got this dead on and I am sad to see it go.

Don't you all get it! There will be no "One." The internet just won't allow it. All three can survive and thrive because ultimately, it is the content that matters, not the way you get it.
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Warlord
You can't have peace with Sony

Sony is like the evil empire, think Darth Vader, the emperor and much worse :eek:
 

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