Have I been stood up?

[Johnd]

I would dare say he's merely being grammatically and verbally correct

The misuse of that term has nothing to do with grammar, syntax or verbal righteousness Halon. Nothing. It has everything to do with proper use of a term. For that matter, none of the other three points in my post corrected Joe's grammar or syntax (other than the run on sentence). Plainly written words "speak" for themselves, as Joe's posts do. He is now going back stating "that is not what I meant." If one takes a little more time to write effectively so as to avoid confusion and misinterpretation (not really at all in Joe's posts...one can understand them plainly...he is now recanting...That's my point) and refrain from accusing people of misinterpreting and being confused. The error, if any, lies soley in the writing of your one's post(s).

Say what you mean and mean what you say. Err, state.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

BUT, to say that one's personal choice to not use birth control is harmful is ignorant, and does not allow for the myriad of variables that surround such an issue.

What does personal choice have to do with it in this context? Those who obey the pope are not being given a choice.

 

[trnqk7]

Their choice lies in the fact they obey the Pope. Period. End of story.

 

[Johnd]

Good in what way? Well-founded on what?
Are you referring, perhaps, to the phrase "be fruitful and multiply" in an ancient work of fiction? Maybe you are thinking of the ridiculous concept that birth control will make people more promiscuous (as though they won't be anyway)?

Now you want to run in that direction? We were discussing this post of yours:

Paraphrased by Johnd
Quote: Originally Posted by Joe Schmoe

- I had gone years without a date and didn't really miss it...
- Mind you, I miss sex, but not a serious relationship...
- I am too self-centered...
- to have anything to offer a woman...
- and enough of a natural hermit... not to care...
- all of the activities I enjoy are inherently solitary...
- marriage and/or fatherhood have never been options...
- and I don't do compromise...
- Even the logistics of dating (where, when, getting there, getting back, etc.) seem like too much effort these days...
- My best bet at this point may be to shift my focus to trying to get laid occasionally, and leave it at that...
- I am almost the exact opposite of an "alpha male" type. Is there an "omega male"?

I don't get it Joe. Why don't women want you? You seem like such a babe magnet and exhibit only the best attributes that all of the best women are attracted to. Women are at a huge loss without all of the above "stuff," let alone from a self-proclaimed "Omega Man."

Care to respond? We're trying to help you, remember?

 

[Johnd]

What does personal choice have to do with it in this context? Those who obey the pope are not being given a choice.

Original Sin and Free Will. No choice? Who's spoonfeeding you this garbage, because you're not even close.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

...he is now recanting...

Wrong again (it is getting to be a habit with you.) I have never recanted anything. I was merely clarifying so that even you could understand my meaning.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Their choice lies in the fact they obey the Pope. Period. End of story.

Those who actually believe all that religious garbage don't feel like it is a choice. To them, the pope must be obeyed.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Now you want to run in that direction? We were discussing this post of yours:

A few pages back, yes. The thread has gone off on a tangent since then.

 

[Halon451]

Now you want to run in that direction? We were discussing this post of yours:






I don't get it Joe. Why don't women want you? You seem like such a babe magnet and exhibit only the best attributes that all of the best women are attracted to. Women are at a huge loss without all of the above "stuff," let alone from a self-proclaimed "Omega Man."

Care to respond? We're trying to help you, remember?

Ouch......

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Original Sin and Free Will. No choice? Who's spoonfeeding you this garbage, because you're not even close.

If the pope announced "it is now the official position of the church that the use of birth control is a personal choice", a very substantial percentage of those Catholics who had not been using it up until then would begin doing so.

 

[Johnd]

Wrong again (it is getting to be a habit with you.) I have never recanted anything. I was merely clarifying so that even you could understand my meaning.

Then, you didn't actually state:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Schmoe

You have not explained why you consider it a contradiction. I have a strong set of ethics, but don't consider prostitution unethical, so what is being contradicted?
Some religions consider it immoral, but that is arbitrary. No valid reason is given for why it should be considered wrong. Personally, I think that a lot of serious social issues (including rape and abusive relationships that people only stay in for the sex) would be stopped by making it legal.
As for the disease issue, a condom should be considered 100% mandatory whenever anybody has sex, unless they are married and want kids (and then only if they have a doctor's OK.)

???

 

[trnqk7]

Those who actually believe all that religious garbage don't feel like it is a choice. To them, the pope must be obeyed.

Frankly, I believe in God and even attend the Catholic Church with the intents of becoming a member (my wife is Catholic). I subscribe to this religious "garbage" as you call it. However, since I have free will and am capable of making my own decisions, I feel that not everything the Pope says is correct. I don't feel that he must be obeyed at all. I believe the stance on birth control is idiotic-it should be a persons choice. If they merely want to educate pos/neg on the subject, that is fine. I don't agree with their relatively hardline stance. I also think it's garbage that non-Catholics are not allowed to take Communion. I do sometimes take it, even though I'm not Catholic. I however did make a choice earlier in life to become baptized in a different Church and affirmed the same beliefs that Catholics cling to as far as what Communion represents.

There-someone who subscribes to religious "garbage" but doesn't obey the Pope all the time...making choices with his own free will. And yes, my wife, who is a Catholic, agrees with me. She thinks some of the rules are stupid as well and doesn't subscribe to all of them.

I think you have a very narrow-minded view of things and insulting other people's belief systems reeks of desperation.

 

[Davemcc]

Ouch......

Indeed. I'm beginning to think that Felix Ungar is Joe's role model.

 

[Johnd]

If the pope announced "it is now the official position of the church that the use of birth control is a personal choice", a very substantial percentage of those Catholics who had not been using it up until then would begin doing so.

For one that so publicly denounces religion...and Catholicism, how do you know so much? And I don't care what your daddy did, or what you think you learned from his scholarly work years ago. Faith is incredibly personal...and remains current...and alive.

How does your complete and utter failure at getting a piece of a## turn into religion and Catholicism bashing? Someone IS absolutely confused here Joe.

Whatever happened to you as a child, it is now time to get over it. The charms of spite and self-importance does not work but on the least of women.

 

[trnqk7]

Besides-no one is forced into organized religion or Catholicism. Those people follow the Pope's edicts b/c they choose to and b/c they agree with him. If they don't agree-what's saying they have to remain Catholic? Or even listen to him (i.e. myself and my wife).

Pretty much any personal decision is going to be arbitrary, whether you have "good" reason or not to do something. I can't think of many things on a personal level that just "have" to be-it isn't mathematics where 2+2 will always equal 4 (and even that is fuzzy if you get into it really deep). You may deem a personal choice as an absolute, but it is an arbitrary decision on your own part to even think that in the first place

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Then, you didn't actually state:

Yes. And then, when you demonstrated your inability to understand my meaning, I explained it in more detail.
For example "a lot of serious social issues, including rape, would be stopped" was misinterpreted by you as "all rape would be stopped". "A lot" is not the same as "all".
(My only error was not adding an "s". "...including rapes" might have been clearer.)

 

[Davemcc]

However, since I have free will and am capable of making my own decisions, I feel that not everything the Pope says is correct. I don't feel that he must be obeyed at all. I believe the stance on birth control is idiotic-it should be a persons choice.

If you want to be Catholic, you might want to do a little research on "Papal Infallibility". It is doctrine and it is still in effect. Perhaps the Catholic Church is not the right fit for you, perhaps a more self-directed religion would work better with your beliefs.

 

[trnqk7]

Yes. And then, when you demonstrated your inability to understand my meaning, I explained it in more detail.
For example "a lot of serious social issues, including rape, would be stopped" was misinterpreted by you as "all rape would be stopped". "A lot" is not the same as "all".

The way you worded it implies that several, many, etc issues would be stopped...not the number of discrete instances of those individual issues. You are not using the English language correctly at all. What you meant is one thing, but what you stated rolleyes is entirely different.

 

[Johnd]

Ouch......

Yes Halon. But the "Ouch" only works if those who lack understanding are made to understand. I think it's safe to say (err...write ) that we all (but one or two) see the flaws in that plan. And I take solace in that fact.

 

[Johnd]

The way you worded it implies that several, many, etc issues would be stopped...not the number of discrete instances of those individual issues. You are not using the English language correctly at all. What you meant is one thing, but what you stated rolleyes is entirely different.

Thanks trnqk7. I keep getting faulted for Joe's lack of writing skills.