Have I been stood up?

[Highlander]

I do have a strong sense of ethics, but I don't consider prostitution wrong if the prostitute chose that lifestyle...

How do you square your having a strong sense of ethics whilst at the same time being prepared to engage the services offered by a prostitute (were the later legal)?

 

[Pyrrho]

Those are not separate lacks. Morals, by defininition, are rules imposed by religion. The more general personal sense of right and wrong sometimes mistakenly referred to as morality is actually ethics. I do have a strong sense of ethics, but I don't consider prostitution wrong if the prostitute chose that lifestyle (I consider it very wrong if she was forced into it.)

Your distinction between "morals" and "ethics" is not standard English:

moral
–adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes.
2. expressing or conveying truths or counsel as to right conduct, as a speaker or a literary work; moralizing: a moral novel.
3. founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom: moral obligations.
4. capable of conforming to the rules of right conduct: a moral being.
5. conforming to the rules of right conduct (opposed to immoral): a moral man.
6. virtuous in sexual matters; chaste.
7. of, pertaining to, or acting on the mind, feelings, will, or character: moral support.
8. resting upon convincing grounds of probability; virtual: a moral certainty.
–noun
9. the moral teaching or practical lesson contained in a fable, tale, experience, etc.
10. the embodiment or type of something.
11. morals, principles or habits with respect to right or wrong conduct.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/morals

ethics
–plural noun
1. (used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles: the ethics of a culture.
2. the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.: medical ethics; Christian ethics.
3. moral principles, as of an individual: His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence.
4. (usually used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ethics

 

[Pyrrho]

How do you square your having a strong sense of ethics whilst at the same time being prepared to engage the services offered by a prostitute (were the later legal)?

Easy. He is claiming that he has many ethical principles. But he does not regard prostitution as immoral or unethical. Why do you?

Mind you, I am not recommending prostitution, legal or not. I am simply explaining what appears to be his position, and asking why you might disagree with him.

As a practical matter, having sex with someone who is promiscuous or being promiscuous oneself is fairly risky behavior that can result in extreme unpleasantness (i.e., there are plenty of sexually transmitted diseases that most people would like to avoid). Of course, this is simply a practical consideration.

 

[Tarub]

You confuse me Schmoe...

I'm confuse too and I'm starting to think that Joe is a campaign manager for Alan Sharpton for US president...

 

[Highlander]

He is claiming that he has many ethical principles. But he does not regard prostitution as immoral or unethical.

Joe wrote that:

...I don't consider prostitution wrong if the prostitute chose that lifestyle...

To me, Joe appears to be referring solely to the prostitute, i.e. whether being a prostitute is unethical, and not whether his own ethics would allow him accept services offered by one.

Why do you? Mind you, I am not recommending prostitution, legal or not. I am simply explaining what appears to be his position, and asking why you might disagree with him.

I wasn't disagreeing with Joe. As noted in a previous post, it's on Joe's conscience what Joe does, not my own. I merely wished clarification on what appeared to me to be a contradiction.

 

[Halon451]

Outstanding... it only took 23 pages to go from a simple dating question from Joe to a full-blown debate on the principles of soliciting a whore.

 

[Pyrrho]

Outstanding... it only took 23 pages to go from a simple dating question from Joe to a full-blown debate on the principles of soliciting a whore.

If he wanted us to get to that question sooner, he should have worded his original post differently!

 

[Johnd]

Outstanding... it only took 23 pages to go from a simple dating question from Joe to a full-blown debate on the principles of soliciting a whore.

To be fair to Joe, he pronounced "sex w/o the relationship." Though we have yet to pin him down on whether that'll cost him $10 (redlight special) or the $4k the gov was shelling out.

 

[Davemcc]

In jail the food's not that good but the sex is okay.

At least you were comfortable.

 

[Davemcc]

Quote: Originally Posted by Joe Schmoe View Post
- I had gone years without a date and didn't really miss it...
- Mind you, I miss sex, but not a serious relationship...
- I am too self-centered...
- to have anything to offer a woman...
- and enough of a natural hermit not to care...
- all of the activities I enjoy are inherently solitary...
- marriage and/or fatherhood have never been options...
- and I don't do compromise...
- Even the logistics of dating (where, when, getting there, getting back, etc.) seem like too much effort these days...
- My best bet at this point may be to shift my focus to trying to get laid occasionally, and leave it at that...
- I am almost the exact opposite of an "alpha male" type. Is there an "omega male"? /Quote


I don't get it Joe. Why don't women want you? You seem like such a babe magnet and exhibit only the best attributes that all of the best women are attracted to. Women are at a huge loss without all of the above "stuff," let alone from a self-proclaimed "Omega Man."

John, this single post captures the essence of this discussion. I showed my wife just this single post and she independently recommended the services of a professional date...or a blow-up doll. Vacations in Vegas are inexpensive.

 

[Haoleb]

From what I have read I'll make it simple for you, Go out. Get yourself a 12 pack of beers. Two packs of bicycle innertube repair kits. A bike pump. (or perhaps a full blown compressor) a fine assortment of healthy young women of the blow-up variety and call it a night out on the town! You can even stuff like 5 or 6 of them sumbeaches in yer car and drive around with a pimp hat on. Whatever floats your boat!

 

[Sheep]

It's called a fling people, nothing wrong with them. Joe, you just need a sex-buddy. Go to your local bars and pick one up.

SheepStar

 

[Johnd]

John, this single post captures the essence of this discussion. I showed my wife just this single post and she independently recommended the services of a professional date...or a blow-up doll. Vacations in Vegas are inexpensive.

LOL. It does, doesn't it? I'm torn between commending Joe for an incredibly poignant, brutally honest and complete autobiography and pondering the current state of our societal values.

Your wife sounds brutally honest...and intuitive. Both good qualities. I wonder how Joe would fare with a like-minded woman?

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I wasn't disagreeing with Joe. As noted in a previous post, it's on Joe's conscience what Joe does, not my own. I merely wished clarification on what appeared to me to be a contradiction.

You have not explained why you consider it a contradiction. I have a strong set of ethics, but don't consider prostitution unethical, so what is being contradicted?
Some religions consider it immoral, but that is arbitrary. No valid reason is given for why it should be considered wrong. Personally, I think that a lot of serious social issues (including rape and abusive relationships that people only stay in for the sex) would be stopped by making it legal.
Obviously, there are certain situations in which it is wrong. These include when the man is married and when the prostitute has been forced into it (by threats or drug addiction, eg.)
As for the disease issue, a condom should be considered 100% mandatory whenever anybody has sex, unless they are married and want kids (and then only if they have a doctor's OK.)

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Outstanding... it only took 23 pages to go from a simple dating question from Joe to a full-blown debate on the principles of soliciting a whore.

I love watching threads evolve. I have never understood why some people complain about threads being "derailed", since they inevitably become more interesting once they veer off on some unexpected tangent.

 

[Davemcc]

Your wife sounds brutally honest...and intuitive. Both good qualities. I wonder how Joe would fare with a like-minded woman?

Not well, I'm afraid. If she were brutally honest, she would offend Joe's sense of etiquette and/or bruise his ego pretty badly and he would dump her. If she were intuitive, she would recognize the previously mentioned traits for what they are and dump him. If she were both brutally honest and intuitive, she would recognize the above mentioned traits and harass him mercilessly about his failings, then dump him.

I think that Joe could find some success if he were to leave the smoking issue on the table, but be compliant on the all the other issues. This isn't mission impossible. There is somebody for everybody.

True story, I had a friend who was rather unattractive, poor, unemployed and socially awkward, but he wanted to find a reasonably hot, thin long term relationship. He was able to volunteer as a counselor at the local Anorexia/Bulimia clinic and he found himself a reasonably hot, thin woman there whom he subsequently married. I guess ugliness, poverty and nerdiness can be overcome by self-worth and body image issues. The point is that you need to look for your potential mates where you are most likely to find them.

 

[Halon451]

As for the disease issue, a condom should be considered 100% mandatory whenever anybody has sex, unless they are married and want kids (and then only if they have a doctor's OK.)

Sorry, but I think that's taking it a little too far. Personally if a guy doesn't have the sense to strap one on due to his own free will when he has promiscous sex with anyone, especially a hooker, then he has nobody to blame but his own stupid self when he contracts some horrible disease. And, being married and in a monogamous relationship, I'm not about to let you or anyone else tell me how to enjoy my sex life.

Just my two flippin' cents...

 

[Davemcc]

I'm not about to let you or anyone else tell me how to enjoy my sex life.

How about if I tell you to enjoy it frequently.

 

[Johnd]

You have not explained why you consider it a contradiction. I have a strong set of ethics, but don't consider prostitution unethical, so what is being contradicted?
Some religions consider it immoral, but that is arbitrary. No valid reason is given for why it should be considered wrong. Personally, I think that a lot of serious social issues (including rape and abusive relationships that people only stay in for the sex) would be stopped by making it legal.Obviously, there are certain situations in which it is wrong. These include when the man is married and when the prostitute has been forced into it (by threats or drug addiction, eg.)
As for the disease issue, a condom should be considered 100% mandatory whenever anybody has sex, unless they are married and want kids (and then only if they have a doctor's OK.)

Wow. Where do I start Joe?

arbitrary...No valid reason

Arbitrary? No valid reason? I don't know where you get this "stuff" from, but it is neither invalid or arbitrary. Some hold that the body is holy, a temple, and to abuse it (or other's) is unholy and against God's plan.

rape...would be stopped by making it legal

??? I really have nothing to counter that with.

want kids and then only if they have a doctor's OK

Now married couples need a doctor's permission to "want kids?" By extension, does this apply also to having sexual relations, and bearing children?

1) So the Church's moral stance is "arbitrary" and has "no valid reason" for being? (I write of the Christian Church...and more specifically, the Catholic Church).
2) Rape would end by legalizing it?
3) Married couples now need a doctor's permission slip to "want kids" (and have sex and children)?

Wow. WOW!!! The only thing I'm truly confused about is what kind of drugs you're taking?

 

[Johnd]

Not well, I'm afraid. If she were brutally honest, she would offend Joe's sense of etiquette and/or bruise his ego pretty badly and he would dump her. If she were intuitive, she would recognize the previously mentioned traits for what they are and dump him. If she were both brutally honest and intuitive, she would recognize the above mentioned traits and harass him mercilessly about his failings, then dump him.

I'm sure. that was a rhetorical question Dave, but thanks for the explanation. Sometimes the blatantly obvious needs to be spelled out.

I think that Joe could find some success if he were to leave the smoking issue on the table, but be compliant on the all the other issues. This isn't mission impossible. There is somebody for everybody.

I think we've unearthed more "issues" than that Dave.

True story, I had a friend who was rather unattractive, poor, unemployed and socially awkward, but he wanted to find a reasonably hot, thin long term relationship. He was able to volunteer as a counselor at the local Anorexia/Bulimia clinic and he found himself a reasonably hot, thin woman there whom he subsequently married. I guess ugliness, poverty and nerdiness can be overcome by self-worth and body image issues. The point is that you need to look for your potential mates where you are most likely to find them.

Hmm. Yes, one can meet their mate just about anywhere.