RBH vs Def Tech? Or remedial audio class?

C

cutter

Audioholic
Up front, please forgive my ignorance. But, I'd appreciate any advice! Here's my situation:
I have a Denon 3805 AVR 110 wpc, Denon 3910 DVD/SACD. 61" DLP TV.
I started in '03 with Aperion 7.1 surround speakers, (PowerTower L/R), 12" Aperion powered sub.
I loved it for HT, but hated it for music. Fiddled with cross-over, large/small, etc. but no improvement. Decided to upgrade to Axiom m80 fronts, and move the Aperion PT to surrounds. even BETTER HT, but I still am not satisfied with 2 channel music from M80's. (9' apart, 2' from back wall, slight toe-in) Music seems bright/harsh, and lacks smooth transitions from highs/mids to bass. I have the crossover set at 80, large fronts/surrounds. (I tried other combos as well).
The Denon AVR manual is useless for a beginner like myself, and I'm wondering if it is the speakers? me? receiver? Room? (18' x 22', hardwood floors w/8x10' area rug, opens on one wall to kitchen, other wall to entryway) I had a 7 channel Anthem amp that didn't make a difference, and I got rid of it.
Should I upgrade to RBH or Def Tech fronts? (I'm willing to spend about 5 grand) any other suggestions? Clearly, I'm flailing here-- help!
 
codexp3

codexp3

Audioholic
For music 100% RBH! Of the 10 brands I auditioned the DefTechs were the absolute worst speaker for music. I absolutely hate speakers with built in subs, I'm talking to you Polk LSIs and DefTechs! The bass muds up the mid range, yuck! For 5 grand I'd say listen to the following in addition to RBH: Paradigm Studio 100s ($3200 and my personal fav) B&W 700 series, and dynaudio focus series. I listened to some amazing dynaudios that went for 3k, can't remember the exact model. Revels lack in tweeters until you get to the Ultima series.
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
At 5k I would throw in the Paradigm Sigs for audition.
For music 100% RBH! Of the 10 brands I auditioned the DefTechs were the absolute worst speaker for music. I absolutely hate speakers with built in subs, I'm talking to you Polk LSIs and DefTechs! The bass muds up the mid range, yuck! For 5 grand I'd say listen to the following in addition to RBH: Paradigm Studio 100s ($3200 and my personal fav) B&W 700 series, and dynaudio focus series. I listened to some amazing dynaudios that went for 3k, can't remember the exact model. Revels lack in tweeters until you get to the Ultima series.
 
I

InTheIndustry

Senior Audioholic
$5K for mains is a very healthy budget although I think that this is kind of a “no man’s land” in terms of value. Excellent speakers can be had for $5K to be sure, but I think the best value around there are going to be found at around $4K and then again at around $7K - $7500. Regardless, doing this for a living I do have a few recommendations that I have extensive experience with.…

Canton Vento 890DC $5Kpair
Musically, this is a phenomenal speaker. Looks great in the gloss piano black (GPB) finish! Canton speakers are incredibly musical. Excellent imaging and response out of this speaker. All parts are engineered and built in Germany. As I stated in another thread, Canton is mainland Europe’s answer to England’s B&W. I actually prefer them over B&W for a variety of reasons. The Vento 890DC is at the top of your budget but they have a similar speaker just below it in the Vento 870DC priced at $3500pair.

890DC
http://www.canton.de/en-produktdetail-vento-vento890dc.htm

870DC
http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/products/product-page.php?id=11#

Energy Veritas V2.4i $4Kpair
This is a tough call between Canton’s Vento and the Energy Veritas speakers. You’ll have to go listen for yourself and judge. Both have distinctively different sounds. One thing I like about the Veritas from a construction stand point is that they are much much heavier then either of the Cantons which can often mean superior cabinet construction. This is a fine speaker with a lot of fans out there that love the line and rightfully so. For my money, though, the Vento 870DC is tough to beat @ $500 less. Also, with your receiver the Veritas might be tough to drive.

http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/products/product-page.php?id=11#

RBH Sound Signature Series 1044-SE $2400pair - $2900pair (custom veneer)
Very traditional speaker with a side firing woofer. This RBH has two 4” aluminum mids that operate so quickly along with a 1” silk dome tweeter. A 10” Aluminum woofer does the low end producing a very clear, precise, and uncolored sound. This tower is proportioned quite thin, which you may or may not like looks wise. The sound out of these is fabulous. I actually prefer the lighter sound of the 1044-SE to the bigger 1266-SE. Your receiver can power these without problems.

http://rbhsound.com/1044se.shtml

BG Radia Z-92 $2500pair
This is a very special speaker. To get information about it you’ll have to e-mail BG and they will get you some cut sheets www.bgcorp.com . They need to update their website in a huge way! I have heard this speaker and it is mind blowing. For half the money I think it brings a better value to the table then their $5K Radia 520i. This will be tough to find and audition, but worth it if you can. We’re bringing it into our show room once the remodel is done. It’s a very special product in my eyes, as most of what BG does is. Their NEO drivers are unlike anything I’ve ever heard.

Some Articles
http://www.electronichouse.com/article/bg_radias_new_z_models_deliver_grade_a_sound/C18

http://www.bgcorp.com/news.read.php?article_id=61

General Ideas:

I thought about recommending the Mirage OMD-15, but they are so incredibly narrow in the "sweet spot" it's almost annoying with all of the tweaking that takes place. We really don't do a whole lot with Mirage any more.

I like some of the Klipsch stuff that's out there, although it's awfully pedestrian in the looks department. I don't mind the sound of a horn tweeter like some. I have a fair amount of experience with them and appreciate what they're good at. Not a speaker for laid back listening.

Something Unique:

Anthony Gallo Nucleus Reference 3.1 & Reference Sub Amplifier $3300pair + $1K amp = $4300
I don't know if any other forum members have actually ever heard them or what their opinions are, but I really love these. I think they look cool, but definitely NOT for the feint of heart. You either love the look or they just aren’t for you, period. Sound quality from these WITHIOUT the sub amp is excellent. WITH the sub amp this speaker is absolutely top shelf. Easily one of my favorite speakers we carry @ any price point. I like that they look different as they often become a cool conversation piece. For some reason it fits them. In my opinion they look OK with the speaker grille (if you can call it that. It’s more of a cover) on. I much prefer to just let em’ all hang out! The sub amp essentially bi-amps the speaker allowing the woofer to extend into the very low range. I recommend it for full range use. This is a rarely talked about speaker that is just killer. I recommend these highly!

http://roundsound.com/reference-3-speakers.htm

Jamo C 809 $2Kpair
By all means lgo isten to things around the $2K to $2500 range. There's a lot to be had there. The brand new Jamo C 809 is really out performing most of that category with an MSRP of $2K. This speaker has a very laid back and detailed sound. It really never has to labor through the range. I really feel like it's a beautiful speaker in the Dark Apple color. In black, eh, it's so-so. With jamo I had given up on all but their THX Ultra2 systems (extremely under rated theatre systems) because they hadn't brough out anything new in ages. With the new Concert C 80 line I have been really impressed.

http://jamo.com/Default.aspx?ID=5908&M=Shop&PID=17140&ProductID=17795

If the BG's carried the looks of the Jamo I would say to go start with them, the Cantons, and the Gallos for three different reference points in your budget. But, it's not that easy. You have to make it LOOK right too. Different strokes for different folks, right?

Happy hunting!
 
C

cutter

Audioholic
Thanks, everyone!

Thanks to all for your helpful advice! I may have found used RBH T-2's that are close to my price range-- I'll have to buy an amp, though. Thinking of emotiva. anyone think this combo would be pretty cool?
 
Last edited:
I

InTheIndustry

Senior Audioholic
Thanks to all for your helpful advice! I may have found used RBH T-2's that are close to my price range-- I'll have to buy an amp, though. Thinking of emotiva. anyone think this combo would be pretty cool?
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