Speaker Wire and Termination

[FSUguy]

Speakers ordered: Check
Receiver ordered: Check
HDTV ready: Check
Speaker wire: uh oh!!

So time to bring up what some might consider a controversial issue....speaker wire. I have all my equipment either ready to go or on order, but I still need to order my wiring. From what I have read, Monster is for the $$$, so that's a resounding "negative ghost rider, the pattern is full." I have looked at blue jeans and monoprice as well as a couple of other websites to try and figure out pricing, and I just wanted some opinions before placing my order.

The room is approx 12 ft L x 10 ft W. None of the speaker wire will prob be used in-wall b/c I am renting right now (college student), and I don't foresee a run being more than 20-22 ft to the rears. I was thinking either 12 or 14 AWG wire, but I want your thoughts on brands, sizes, etc. Also, I wanted to know if there is a good way to approx how much I will need (5.1 system), maybe 50 ft? Finally, if I see a noticeable difference in performance from banana plugs or bare wire (audible, corrosion resistance, or just user friendly)?

My system:
Yammy v1800
Klipsch
-RF82's
-RC52
-RS42
-RW-12D

Thanks soooo much everyone....I'm looking forward to the responses!

 

[jostenmeat]

Nothing beats bare wire. Plugs are nice if you are a dealer and want to audition many speakers off the same amp, or are a nice host giving all of us audioholics some beers while doing a DBT audition of some fine speakers. . Just strip, twist, plug in. Perhaps repeat that once or twice a year. Or, just use plugs at the amp if that's hard to get to, and just strip new wire at the speaker terminals.

12 or 14 gauge seems plenty to me for max run of 22 ft. Go overkill on the length you buy, well, that would be my experience. . Maybe mine has gone thru too many... changes... heh. When you run the lengths, add another several feet of slack. Because You Will End Up Experimenting With Placement And Up Never Having Enough Wire. Do not cut off extra wire for... at .... least.... 3 months, lol. Well, that's what I would be telling myself if I could travel back to the past.

 

[fmw]

I think the best approach is to get yourself a soldering iron. Strip the speaker wires, twist them tightly and tin them with solder. You can clamp the tinned ends in the speaker and amplifier terminals with no fear of things coming loose or stray strands causing shorts. Simple, cheap, stronger than a connector.

 

[FSUguy]

I think the best approach is to get yourself a soldering iron. Strip the speaker wires, twist them tightly and tin them with solder. You can clamp the tinned ends in the speaker and amplifier terminals with no fear of things coming loose or stray strands causing shorts. Simple, cheap, stronger than a connector.

Thanks for all the advice, I will prob just end up going with 14 AWG to save a little coin, and put banana plugs only on the receiver side.

What are some good suggestions for reliable, relatively expensive banana plugs?

Where is a good place to get an inexpensive soldering iron and tin?

Thanks

 

[jaxvon]

Check out parts express for all the goodies. I would buy 100ft of speaker wire. It's not that much more money, and I guarantee you'll use more than you expect with that room. Besides, if you screw something up, it's good to have extra laying around rather than being hosed.

 

[trnqk7]

Monoprice has been having a sale on banana plugs, I ordered 20 a week or so ago and it worked out to a 1.50 a pair-hard to beat!

 

[FSUguy]

Speakers ordered: Check
Receiver ordered: Check
HDTV ready: Check
Speaker wire: uh oh!!

So time to bring up what some might consider a controversial issue....speaker wire. I have all my equipment either ready to go or on order, but I still need to order my wiring. From what I have read, Monster is for the $$$, so that's a resounding "negative ghost rider, the pattern is full." I have looked at blue jeans and monoprice as well as a couple of other websites to try and figure out pricing, and I just wanted some opinions before placing my order.

The room is approx 12 ft L x 10 ft W. None of the speaker wire will prob be used in-wall b/c I am renting right now (college student), and I don't foresee a run being more than 20-22 ft to the rears. I was thinking either 12 or 14 AWG wire, but I want your thoughts on brands, sizes, etc. Also, I wanted to know if there is a good way to approx how much I will need (5.1 system), maybe 50 ft? Finally, if I see a noticeable difference in performance from banana plugs or bare wire (audible, corrosion resistance, or just user friendly)?

My system:
Yammy v1800
Klipsch
-RF82's
-RC52
-RS42
-RW-12D

Thanks soooo much everyone....I'm looking forward to the responses!

So in my original post, I thought my longest run, might only be approx 20', but depending on how "clean" I want the install to look, I might be looking at runs to the rears of around 30-35' plus an additional 5' or so to help if I move them in the future. Would I still be ok with running 14 AWG cables that far, or should I now start to look at 12 AWG? I researched the prices with monoprice and blue jeans and found that I could get 100' 14 AWG and 10 banana connectors shipped for about $45 (monoprice). I work at BB and looked at our discount on the Monster stuff and was surprised to see that 100' of white XP 14 AWG and 12 rocketfish banana clips would run me close to the same. If I do need to upgrade to 12 AWG, then the monster CL rated XP (the only 12 AWG we carry) runs slightly more. My question is does anyone know if when Monster determines their gauge of wire, are they determining it with only the copper, or do they include the dielectric too? I have heard both, and have even heard that the 12 AWG XP-CL is more of a 14 AWG with a dielectric to add gauge.

Last question: In choosing banana clips, is it important to have one that is surrounded by an insulator to reduce the effects of corrosion and chances for depolarization?

Thanks everyone

Monoprice has been having a sale on banana plugs, I ordered 20 a week or so ago and it worked out to a 1.50 a pair-hard to beat!

Send me the link to which banana plugs you decided to pick up if you don't mind...

Thanks

 

[trnqk7]

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401&cs_id=1040115&p_id=2801&seq=1&format=2

It's the copper solder type banana plugs-they are on the front page of monoprice's website.

 

[FSUguy]

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401&cs_id=1040115&p_id=2801&seq=1&format=2

It's the copper solder type banana plugs-they are on the front page of monoprice's website.

Ok, so here are my two choices:

1) 6 pairs of :http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

and

100 ft of:http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

or

2) 3 packages (each containing 4) of:http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1174092319345

and

100 ft of:http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1051384447379

for price difference, choice 2 is $3.57 cheaper, but I don't have to wait on shipping from monoprice. Will I see any performance difference, especially in the monoprice plugs not being insulated, and do the ferromanganese tips
of the monoprice plugs matter?

let me know what you think, thanks!

 

[trnqk7]

I don't believe you will see any performance difference. Impedance is the only reason you would-and if there is any impedance difference between these wires (the link to the best buy stuff is broken, at least for me) and plugs, it will so minute as to not matter. Go with whichever you prefer (i.e. which is cheaper if that's most important or which will get there quicker if that's more important). Since the price is so close, it's more of a matter of how long do you want to wait and looks-which is more visually appealing to you. Either will be fine!

 

[FSUguy]

I don't believe you will see any performance difference. Impedance is the only reason you would-and if there is any impedance difference between these wires (the link to the best buy stuff is broken, at least for me) and plugs, it will so minute as to not matter. Go with whichever you prefer (i.e. which is cheaper if that's most important or which will get there quicker if that's more important). Since the price is so close, it's more of a matter of how long do you want to wait and looks-which is more visually appealing to you. Either will be fine!

Awesome, thanks for the advice. That's weird that the links are not working.

the Best Buy stuff is :
-100 ft Monster XP 14 AWG Navajo white
-Rocketfish banana plugs, 2 pair

Monoprice:
-100 ft Monoprice 14 AWG clear wrap
-Monoprice Solder type banana plugs 1 pair

Do you know if Monster measures their gauge including the dielectric. or just the copper (see previous post)?

Thanks

 

[trnqk7]

I do not know how Monster measures their gauge. I have heard "stories" that they are not always the most honest-but so far, no proof. And remember, it's popular to hate on Monster . If you can get it for the same price as something else, I don't see the harm in it. I just wouldn't buy it at retail.

 

[FSUguy]

I do not know how Monster measures their gauge. I have heard "stories" that they are not always the most honest-but so far, no proof. And remember, it's popular to hate on Monster . If you can get it for the same price as something else, I don't see the harm in it. I just wouldn't buy it at retail.

Well, I decided to buy the Monoprice wire because it was 14 AWG and the monster wire I was looking at is actually 16 AWG from what I have heard from a few people (plus it didn't quite look like 14 AWG). I really wish monster wire had gauge measurements. The monoprice may not hide as well because the jacket is not white, but hopefully I'll hear a difference in the 14 AWG. Also, is there any truth to these "time correct windings' or "twisted pair" wires? And what advantage does it offer?

Also....

I'm going to use banana plugs for the receiver, but I bought a soldering iron, mini blow torch, and solder off ebay for about $10 shipped. The solder included is a rosin core solder. Is there any special solder that works better for HT, or will the included solder be fine?

Thanks

 

[trnqk7]

Sounds good.

Don't expect to "hear" a difference in the 14 AWG wire--wire is wire and unless you have a really long run (over 50 feet probably) and very small gauge wire (less than 16 AWG) where the impedance starts to get really high, you will not notice a difference. Even at that point, you should only have an attenuated signal (b/c of voltage drop) not a "bad" sound. Just quieter.

I don't think there is really anything to "time correct windings" or "twisted pair" wires. Twisted pair wires may have a marginal (i.e. inaudible) affect on inductance between wire pairs or something-but if they are properly insulated (as most are), this won't be a factor either. I can't imagine what a "time corrected winding" is other than fancy wording for low impedance wire, specifically in the imaginary domain (capacitance and inductance) as it will keep the electrical signal in it's orignal phase as much as possible. This is nothing you should have to worry about to be honest.

I would also think that pretty much any old solder should work that I know of as long as you do it properly-although it would be easier to just use banana plugs on the speakers as well if you have that hook-up option. You would have to get pretty physical with the speaker to get the banana plugs to pull out of the terminators (i.e. pick up the speaker and walk away from the wall where it's terminated from until the plugs pull out). There's nothing wrong with soldering though-it will make an excellent connection, it's just not as easy and quick-especially if you decided to rearrange your speakers later

You are on the right track though-keep asking questions as you have more!

 

[FSUguy]

Sounds good.

Don't expect to "hear" a difference in the 14 AWG wire--wire is wire and unless you have a really long run (over 50 feet probably) and very small gauge wire (less than 16 AWG) where the impedance starts to get really high, you will not notice a difference. Even at that point, you should only have an attenuated signal (b/c of voltage drop) not a "bad" sound. Just quieter.

I don't think there is really anything to "time correct windings" or "twisted pair" wires. Twisted pair wires may have a marginal (i.e. inaudible) affect on inductance between wire pairs or something-but if they are properly insulated (as most are), this won't be a factor either. I can't imagine what a "time corrected winding" is other than fancy wording for low impedance wire, specifically in the imaginary domain (capacitance and inductance) as it will keep the electrical signal in it's orignal phase as much as possible. This is nothing you should have to worry about to be honest.

I would also think that pretty much any old solder should work that I know of as long as you do it properly-although it would be easier to just use banana plugs on the speakers as well if you have that hook-up option. You would have to get pretty physical with the speaker to get the banana plugs to pull out of the terminators (i.e. pick up the speaker and walk away from the wall where it's terminated from until the plugs pull out). There's nothing wrong with soldering though-it will make an excellent connection, it's just not as easy and quick-especially if you decided to rearrange your speakers later

You are on the right track though-keep asking questions as you have more!

Thank you sooo much for all the help and advice. I'm just trying to get as well educated as possible in my new hobby. One last thing, are there any pointers you can offer me for soldering purposes?

 

[trnqk7]

Heat the wire up before applying the solder (i.e. don't melt the solder with the soldering iron and "drip" it onto the wire, instead, apply the soldering iron to the wire, heating it up enough to melt the solder). This will make a better physical connection as far as strength goes. Careful not to heat too much either-the rubber/plastic surrounding the wire could melt. Let the soldering iron have time to heat up and then take it slow, put the soldering iron firmly against the wire with the solder on the other side after the wire/iron combo has heated for a few seconds. It should "melt" into the wire and secure your connection.

Someone else chime in-I'm not so great at describing this process but hopefully it's enough to go on.

 

[FSUguy]

Heat the wire up before applying the solder (i.e. don't melt the solder with the soldering iron and "drip" it onto the wire, instead, apply the soldering iron to the wire, heating it up enough to melt the solder). This will make a better physical connection as far as strength goes. Careful not to heat too much either-the rubber/plastic surrounding the wire could melt. Let the soldering iron have time to heat up and then take it slow, put the soldering iron firmly against the wire with the solder on the other side after the wire/iron combo has heated for a few seconds. It should "melt" into the wire and secure your connection.

Someone else chime in-I'm not so great at describing this process but hopefully it's enough to go on.

Awesome, thanks so much. Is there any special way to suspend the wire in the air while doing this? It sounds like I might need about 45 pairs of arms! haha

 

[trnqk7]

Not that I know of, you just have to be careful and take your time. It's not as hard as it sounds.