Lead-free law ruins electronics

[Rickster71]

Mystery 'tin whiskers' ruin electronics, stoke debate over safety of European lead-free law.

"The EU's decision was irresponsible and not based on sound science," said Joe Smetana, a principal engineer and tin whisker expert with French telecommunications equipment maker Alcatel-Lucent SA. "We're solving a problem that isn't (there) and creating a bunch of new ones."
See link:http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/10/09/business/NA-FEA-TEC-US-Tin-Whiskers.php

 

[stratman]

You've got to love big/socialism/radical environmentalism government at work, this unfortunately is coming our way.

 

[OttoMatic]

What's wrong with not using lead in circuit boards and such? I mean, I read the article -- it looks like they'll have to find another way to combat "tin whiskers." Yeah, tin whiskers suck, but so does lead contamination.

The quote of Mr. Smetana just states that and nothing else, as far as I could tell. He (or, more accurately, the ariticle) doesn't elaborate on why it's "not based on sound science," or why they're "solving a problem that isn't there," nor what other problems are being "created."

So, as far as using quotes that are kind of vague, here goes:

"EU officials say the regulations banning lead, cadmium, mercury and three other hazardous substances are needed to protect people and the environment."

Seems like there's some reasoning behind, this. You mean that the whole EU sat around and talked about this, and just decided that they should ban lead in these types of products because they're some big, bad government entity?

Aw, I suppose we should just dump it all in the river. As long as someone makes some money doing it, right?

 

[10010011]

Why can't the Europeans just teach their children not to eat the circuit boards?

Seriously my company has bees struggling with the RoHS Directive (pronounced row-haus)for the past couple years. It is a real pain in the you know what to work with that lead free solder. Inspectors had to be retrained because every solder joint looks like cold solder now. We have had to go to gold plated circuit boards. Certain parts are moisture sensitive now. Anodized aluminum cases are out of the question because cadmium is used in the process.

That's just the tip of the ice burg...

 

[stratman]

What's wrong with not using lead in circuit boards and such? I mean, I read the article -- it looks like they'll have to find another way to combat "tin whiskers." Yeah, tin whiskers suck, but so does lead contamination.

The quote of Mr. Smetana just states that and nothing else, as far as I could tell. He (or, more accurately, the ariticle) doesn't elaborate on why it's "not based on sound science," or why they're "solving a problem that isn't there," nor what other problems are being "created."

So, as far as using quotes that are kind of vague, here goes:

"EU officials say the regulations banning lead, cadmium, mercury and three other hazardous substances are needed to protect people and the environment."

Seems like there's some reasoning behind, this. You mean that the whole EU sat around and talked about this, and just decided that they should ban lead in these types of products because they're some big, bad government entity?

Aw, I suppose we should just dump it all in the river. As long as someone makes some money doing it, right?

Simple recycling like they do with lead batteries, car oil, etc. Mandate recycling of old electronics, have a depot where you turn in or curbside pick up. That creates a new market and new employment and it raises revenues (taxes). Instead of regulating industry, government should make it easier for companies to grow, not get stifled in bureaucratic red tape.

 

[MUDSHARK]

Would there be a 15 percent excise tax on electronics to pay for administering the recycling. I'm not a people's republic of California type but lead is bad. Banning all bullets might save more lives. Eat Lead Sucker no more. I really have no idea if bullets are even made of lead anymore. What else is made of lead? Not balloons, at least.

 

[stratman]

Would there be a 15 percent excise tax on electronics to pay for administering the recycling. I'm not a people's republic of California type but lead is bad. Banning all bullets might save more lives. Eat Lead Sucker no more. I really have no idea if bullets are even made of lead anymore. What else is made of lead? Not balloons, at least.

Well in bullets and shot bismuth is used, which is less toxic then lead.

 

[Exit]

Its really a giant plot by corporations to get more work out of employees by getting the lead out of their ***.

 

[emorphien]

While getting that crap out is nice, it was premature if there wasn't a suitable workaround for this "tin splinter" thing and that would make it a foolish and hasty decision.

 

[Davemcc]

Well in bullets and shot bismuth is used, which is less toxic then lead.

If your aim is good, the lead in the bullet is the least of your target's concerns.

 

[stratman]

If your aim is good, the lead in the bullet is the least of your target's concerns.

Yup, also "eat bismuth sucker", doesn't sound as good as "eat lead sucker", in the big screen.

 

[Rickster71]

I found another article.
This one speaks to the more scary consequences.
http://mae.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=ARTCL&ARTICLE_ID=238657&VERSION_NUM=2&p=32

 

[OttoMatic]

This one speaks to the more scary consequences.

Yes, very scary.

From the article:

"Eventually, scientists and engineers will come up with ways to mitigate the forming and the effects of tin whiskers"

I have FA'd lots of intermittent failures a particular computer product. Sometimes, we never come up with an answer as to why a particular device failed. I wonder if "tin whiskers" is sometimes a convenient scapegoat. Wasn't one of the orbiter or satellite failures determined to be caused by tin whiskers? I wonder how they figured that out without being about to touch the device...

BTW, there's a military exception for the leaded solder. It seems that this article decries the loss of companies making their leaded circuit boards because they are following the money. Surely, there must be someone out there that will fab military grade circuit boards using leaded solder. If not, there could be more jobs created, right?

Also, jobs created by looking for ways to fight tin whiskers, right?

 

[Joe Schmoe]

While getting that crap out is nice, it was premature if there wasn't a suitable workaround for this "tin splinter" thing and that would make it a foolish and hasty decision.

Sounds like a job for metallurgists, not politicians.

 

[OttoMatic]

Simple recycling like they do with lead batteries, car oil, etc. Mandate recycling

Mandate that people do something?

The average person isn't smart enough to drive in the lane appropriate for their speed, let alone care about where their junked monitor ends up. I'm afraid that even curbside pickup is too much for most people...

 

[emorphien]

Sounds like a job for metallurgists, not politicians.

It is, but politicians don't listen to their advisers do they? Someone would have likely been saying "we're not ready"

 

[Rickster71]

The average person isn't smart enough to drive in the lane appropriate for their speed

They are getting better though; I saw someone use their directional signals yesterday...
Really....I did.

 

[stratman]

Mandate that people do something?

The average person isn't smart enough to drive in the lane appropriate for their speed, let alone care about where their junked monitor ends up. I'm afraid that even curbside pickup is too much for most people...

They take out their garbage, right? Just dump the computer next to it, what'so hard about that.

 

[TLS Guy]

Polermo clause!

This I fear will be a bad problem. Hang on to your old gear. I have tried that solder, it is dreadful and has bad flow characteristics among other ills.

The best hope is that the Asiatics will use leaded solder, but say it is lead free. My best guess is it has been happening for while or I think we would have had more trouble.

My youngest brother is chairman of the Kent County Council UK. This has the largest budget in all of the UK counties. The position now, is somewhat analogous to a state governor here.

Anyway he made a speech at the Conservative party conference a few years ago, advocating for the Polermo clause. Polermo is in Sicily. What he was advocating was, that no EEC edict have the force of law until it had been enforced in Polermo. He got a big ovation, and a note of congratulation from Margaret Thatcher.

I vote for the Polermo clause!

 

[OttoMatic]

They take out their garbage, right? Just dump the computer next to it, what'so hard about that.

Perhaps for large items. I'm sure they're also concerned about little crap getting into the normal garbage as well. Admittedly, there are a variety of solutions. Some of this is directed towards businesses, though, because they'll be the next link in the chain to dump in whatever location is cheapest, so the bad stuff still ends up somewhere. I'm guessing here, but I think that the legislative effort is to stop the flow of the contaminant at a point where they can guarantee effectiveness. If it's out of the loop, then there's no need to monitor who's recycling it, who's processing it, and who's disposing of the remains.

I think it's for the lowest common denominator because people/businesses can't take care of themselves. If there's a way to cheat the system (usually in an effort to make more money), it will be found and the spirit of the law circumvented. I agree with you that it's not necessarily good at an individual level to have government meddling, but I'm sure that the intention is that it's for the greater good.

And just as much as we can find articles with military guys whining about one side of this issue, I'm sure we can find articles with those on the other side of the argument all up in arms about the contamination angle.