Beginner, Help Learning/Planning New System

[the grunt]

He also leaned me towards a set of bookshelf speakers for the front, on 2 foot stands, since this is for my bedroom and large floor standing units would just bounce off the foot of the bed.. Sounds like solid advice to me... what is the opinion here?

It depends on the distance from the speakers to the bed, they would have to be pretty close to cause a problem. It’s most important for the tweeters to be near ear level which is why they are usually near the top on most speaker designs.

Bookshelf speakers should definitely be an option. I almost got them since I live in an apartment. What made me decide to go with towers was that I could afford them, that generally you should buy the best speaker you can and I didn’t want to upgrade later when I buy a house. However, for you bookshelf speakers could make more sense.

I think you said you were mostly getting this for movies which makes bookshelf speakers an even better option as long as combined with a good subwoofer. However, for stereo listening many people prefer floorstanders. Another advantage of bookshelf speakers is that it makes it more likely you can fit three of the same kind across the front, an ideal situation and if you build your own stands can really keep the price down.

to be honest, the mirage speakers he demo'd for me sounded great.

In the end all that matters is that you like them. I wasn’t much into audio prior to home theater but something I noticed was that it took me a little time to develop an ear for how various speakers sounded. I hadn’t had any decent speakers for years so the first ones I listened to sounded fantastic. But slowly I started to notice the differences. One of the best things you can do if you haven’t already is take your own music/movies, preferably something you are familiar with and demo with that.

Also before you buy something ask if you and take some speakers home to try them out. I think you said you have a hardwood floor which may make the speakers sound very different than in a showroom.

The more you can say about the speakers you listened to like model numbers and what you liked or disliked about them may help people give you better feedback.

 

[computergeek13]

after researching more....

I am thinking i might demo the EPIC 80 * 350 set of AXIOM speakers.

I think the sub might be too much for my room but - i wanted floor speakers when i started and when i move into a house im sure ill be glad i did.

Its 2884 for the set - which is in my price range. The only negative thing i have read is the center may be quirky but who knows. I can atleast try it for 30 days.

Just wish i had more options in ohio to hear some of these speakers you all talk about here.

can you look at a grid of my room?

Do those floors need to be a certain distance from the wall? i have a tight walkway between bed and entertainment center... in the stores i was at today the floors were about 2 feet off the wall. or is that just for bipolars?

 

[jaxvon]

I would go this route for subwoofering:

http://av123.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=189&category_id=9&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37

Yes, dual subs. Set them up in a stereo configuration and, with a proper crossover, you will get oodles of headroom and lots of low, even bass.

Also, are you budgeting for room treatment at all? Since you're doing this from the ground up, it would be a very wise investment, since the vast majority of your sound is a result of the quality of your speakers and they way they interact with the room they're in.

 

[computergeek13]

here is the diagram

 

[computergeek13]

I would go this route for subwoofering:

http://av123.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=189&category_id=9&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37

Yes, dual subs. Set them up in a stereo configuration and, with a proper crossover, you will get oodles of headroom and lots of low, even bass.

Also, are you budgeting for room treatment at all? Since you're doing this from the ground up, it would be a very wise investment, since the vast majority of your sound is a result of the quality of your speakers and they way they interact with the room they're in.

Im still trying to figure out what cables i need

so as far as room treatments, i have no idea where to begin. Perhaps you can post some links. I have started reading threads on this forum and some home theater magazines.

But i am really in the dark as far as the details go.

 

[computergeek13]

i dont think i need a 15" subwoofer for this small room. Do you? I live in a condo at this time so i am not trying to annoy neighbors but i do want bass when i watch movies and listen to some music. So if you think the axiom is a poor choice then i gladly accept the input.

And is the crossover a seperate piece of equipment or is it controlled by my receiver?

 

[3db]

Where arer you now in your quest for a HT setup? Like Def Tech mentioned, shop for the speakers first for two very solid reason.
a. They have the greatest impact in how a system sounds, if you do not take room acoustics into a ffect, I would say as high as 98%. With room acoustics in affect, it would drop down to 70% of the sound; maybe even ower.
b. The speaker will determine the power you need to drive them. If you mated a pair of Totem Arrows for example or maybe the Forests whose sensitivity is in the mid to highs 80s and 4 ohms, then the Sony you were looking at may have a hard time driving the speakers.

Always always speakers 1st, then the receiver and then the rest of the stuff.

Someone mentioned using a "phantom" ceneter. That will work provided the listening positions are pretty much centered around the setup. If your listening position begans to deviates quite a bit from center, a center channel will be a must to anchor the sound field to the picture.

Research is good but you do need to go ut and audition speakers as well to see what you like and don't like.

What I would do is to take a pad of paper with you, write down the make and
model of each speaker you audition and what you liked and disliked about the
speakers you were auditioning. Was the bass tight and deep or was it boomy
and loose sounding? Were themids life like or were they hollow or just too
pronounced? Was the trebleirritating and harsh or were they dark and not
revealing or were they smooththat made you want to listen for more? How was
the imaging?

Bring music with you that you are very familiar with and know quite well. To
make it easier to audition HT speaker systems, listen to the main speakers in 2
channel mode with music. Music is much harder to reproduce acurately then a
movie soundtrack so if the speakers do well with music, then they will do well
with HT. Speakers that do HT well may not do well with music. When auditioning
the center channel of the same brand and series as the main speakers, , pick a
difficult source like an announcer that mumbles alot. If you can makeout what
the mumbling announcer has to say, then you have a good center channel.

I would go to speciality stores first and start auditioning speakers first
instead of going to the internet first. Once your likes are determined, you can
mention them here and fellow members can make internet brand recommnedations
based on your likes/dislikes. The specality stores are better setup acousticaly
then the big box stores which will make auditioning a little easier. It will
give you an idea of what you like in a speaker.

Keep track of what amp or receiver is powering the speakers you're auditioning.
Try to get a receiver/amp that closest resembles what you have or want to get.
It just reduces another variable when audtioning speakers.


One thing to keep note off. When auditioning speakers, make sure the volume
levels are matched between the diiferent speaker pairs because the louder
speaker pair will always sound better. Listen to levels that you think you
would listen to most of the time because thats how you are going to be using
them most of the time.

 

[computergeek13]

Where arer you now in your quest for a HT setup?

I have been researching for about a month, i have been to about 6 specialty stores and heard around 15 sets of speakers. I already ordered the receiver, an Onkyo TX-SR805. so the whole shop for speakers first thing is out the door I like music, but it is mostly for TV/Movies. I do want a nice set of speakers however

They have the greatest impact in how a system sounds, if you do not take room acoustics into a ffect, I would say as high as 98%. With room acoustics in affect, it would drop down to 70% of the sound; maybe even lower.

I have no idea how to measure acoustics. I have been searching forums for a few days to see how to set speakers to bounce off the walls etc.. but this is where i am least knowledgeable.

Always always speakers 1st, then the receiver and then the rest of the stuff.

too late

I would go to specialty stores first and start auditioning speakers first instead of going to the internet first. Once your likes are determined, you can mention them here and fellow members can make internet brand recommendations based on your likes/dislikes.

I read up on speakers and receivers for about 2 weeks. Then i hit the stores this past week. There isn't that great a selection where i live. In fact all of the speakers mentioned by the people here i did see any examples of unfortuneatly. I was hoping to see some Axiom, Aperion, B&W, Definitive BP's, Monitor, but the closest i came were some bookshelf pro definitive set for $1400.

The highs sounded ok, but there just wasnt the range i would like.

One store that actually did ok, demo'd these mirage speakers with omnidirectional twetters to project the sound in 360 degrees. The only problem was they were tiny satellite speakers and the subwoofer seemed to go low enough, and the sats had a good high sound, but again it lacked the full range i would expect from larger floor standing fronts and a center channel .

The last store i was at was a high end theater installer, and he had some MartinF....(sp?) that were around $7000 a pair. they had a box that stood on the ground and the top 40" was like a grill that projected sound.. No idea how it worked but it sounded awesome compared to the tiny speakers i had heard the past day or so.

So i am back to here. Listening to recommendations. Someone said the axiom Qs8 surrounds were really nice, so i figured id start there.

Someone else mentioned keeping the fronts and centers the same, so if i go with the definitive, well is it worth the added money? I saw the center is around $1000, and the floors will prbobably run $2000. Which i can do, perhaps ill demo them next.

I also will try the Axiom M80's, and perhaps the aperions?

Any other speakers you would recommend i try?

Can that onkyo receiver power the 4 ohm M80 speakers.?

Can you explain acoustics a bit better for me?

 

[3db]

acoustics is basically how the room interacts with the soundwaves coming from the speakers. A live room is a room that is high refective to soundwaves. Its a room with lots of bare hardwood floors, large areas of walls devoid of furniture, paintings, anything to break up or partially absorb the soundwave, large areas of windows without treatmenst. Its sonic chacateristic would be very "echoey". The otherextrem is a dead room where theres lot of things to obsorb the sound like lots of stuffed furniture such as sofas, big heavy window drapes. All the sound wves would be aborbed by these type of materias. You want to achieve a balance as much as possible between these two extremes.

Your onkyo may be able to run the Axioms M80 provided the room is not too large and you don't listen to stuff at concert levels

Do you have a PSB dealer nearby?

 

[computergeek13]

Do you have a PSB dealer nearby?

i cancelled my onkyo order, luckily it hadnt shipped yet. I will try and get some spearkers first then decide on a reciever, although i guess i cant audition speakers without a receiver.. so i am back at square 1.

what can i add to my room to absorb waves.. I have all hardwood floors, some heavy drapes on my large window and nothing on my other window above bed.

Is there something to hang on walls ? for sound acoustics?

What receiver can i buy where i dont have to worry about whether or not it will power certain speakers?

I would like more than 2 HDMI inputs... so the denon 2808 is out.

 

[computergeek13]

got a good deal on the Denon 3808 with 4 HDMI inputs. Went with that one, thanks for the advice. I am going to try a set of definitives and axioms next week.