Vinyl

[mudrummer99]

Couldn't find any place to put this post where it would fit in really well, so I'll do it here

I am looking at getting into vinyl. My friend has a modest set of good old records he got from his father and I have been bitten by the uniqueness of the sound of the recordings. I am curious about a couple things.
First, can anyone give some suggestions on a good quality, entry level record player (sub $200 would be ideal)
Secondly, I have a Yamaha HTR-5840, do I need an external phono amp?
Thanks for your usefulness as always.

Mike

 

[gus6464]

Couldn't find any place to put this post where it would fit in really well, so I'll do it here

I am looking at getting into vinyl. My friend has a modest set of good old records he got from his father and I have been bitten by the uniqueness of the sound of the recordings. I am curious about a couple things.
First, can anyone give some suggestions on a good quality, entry level record player (sub $200 would be ideal)
Secondly, I have a Yamaha HTR-5840, do I need an external phono amp?
Thanks for your usefulness as always.

Mike

Is there a phono input in the back of the Yamaha? If there is you don't need a preamp. As far as TT is concerned it would be best to go for something used. Keep a lookout on audiogon for a Rega Planar 2/3, P2/3. These can be easily modified for not that much amount of money and can compete with brand new TTs costing a lot more.

 

[cbraver]

Technics 1200/1210's are the way to go. They have been the industry standard for over 30 years, are built like tanks. I own two.

Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SL-1200

Place to buy:
http://www.pssl.com/Technics-SL1200MK2-Direct-Drive-Turntable---Black

Technics:
http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/technics_dj/prod_intro_sl1200mk2.asp

At $430 bucks, they are over your budget, but there are LOTS on the used market. And an old one is just as good as a new one. I wouldn't recommend you buy anything else, and trust me I've used a lot of turntables.

 

[The Dukester]

Your Yamaha does not have a phono input, so you will need an outboard preamp. As for turntables, their are many used that will make good ones for you. The Technics above are good as are the Rega. Many of the old Dual units are great, also and in your budget. Put some money into the cartridge, also. The Shure "V" series is pretty good. Many others out there for more money, just depends on what you want to spend.

If you can find someone that still sets them up in your area, I highly recommend it. An improper cartridge/stylus setup can ruin your records the first time you play them. The same folks would be a good place to locate a good TT, but you would probably have to spend more for it.

Good luck! FWIW, I still love vinyl, also!

 

[cbraver]

Your Yamaha does not have a phono input, so you will need an outboard preamp. As for turntables, their are many used that will make good ones for you. The Technics above are good as are the Rega.

Preamp:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/155434-REG/Rolls_VP29_VP29_Phono_Preamp.html

I've heard/used Regas. Dinky and overpriced. Just my opinion, of course. Also bad with feedback if it's near a subwoofer.... whereas the 1200s are much more tolerant. Also the 1200s are like a piece of history.

Put some money into the cartridge, also. The Shure "V" series is pretty good. Many others out there for more money, just depends on what you want to spend.

Good call on the Shure V series. M92E's are nice too, and budget friendly. I have M44G's, but, I use my turntables a little different then he sounds like he is going to.

If you can find someone that still sets them up in your area, I highly recommend it. An improper cartridge/stylus setup can ruin your records the first time you play them. The same folks would be a good place to locate a good TT, but you would probably have to spend more for it.

Good luck! FWIW, I still love vinyl, also!

I agree. There are also some good howto's on the Internet, I bet. For sure take your time in setup. Shure and Technics would provide you with some fairly good documentation also. If I remember correctly the Technics manuals aren't bad, but it has been a long time since I looked at one.

Vinyl rocks! It doesn't matter if it sounds better or worse, it's got soul!

 

[mudrummer99]

the receiver may be a non issue since ill probably be upgrading to one of the new pioneers when they come out. thanks for the suggestions on the tables, we'll see what comes down the pipe soon, I have a few things on the wish list ahead of this but it never hurts to get an early start learning about it

Mike

 

[TLS Guy]

I guess age qualifies me to have an opinion about "Vinyl" For the first 35 years of my audio experience, the LP was the state of the art.

I posted about this before, especially in some of my early posts so you might want to look at them. This is an area where I encourage a good look at vintage equipment. Good LP reproduction at its best is the sum of compromises.

Personally I have never been enamored of Far Eastern turntables.

Now Turntables are largely mechanical with the cartridge being electromechanical. Now the performance price ratio is much more linear than it is with digital devices, such as CD players.

If you can pick up a good used Thorens TD 160 turntable or TD 150 you will be off to a good start. If you are in funds the TD 125 is a fantastic turntable. If you can come by one with an SME arm for a reasonable some you are in flint.

The Garrard 301s and 401s in good condition are superb, but they fetch high prices even though they are fifty years or more old a lot of them.

If you really want to get into it, buying the turntable and arm from different stables is a good thing. In terms of pick up arms SME have been preeminent.

A good series 2 SME arm can usually be had on eBay for $200 to $300 hundred depending on condition. Here is a good example.

http://cgi.ebay.com/BEAUTIFUL-AND-FULLY-WORKING-SME-series-II-TONEARM_W0QQitemZ370019378889QQihZ024QQcategoryZ48649QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

SME still make a series two as an entry level arm.

http://www.sme.ltd.uk/content/Series-M2-1331.shtml

Cartridges are like speakers you need to hear them. Unfortunately there are more bad than good ones.

Shure and Ortofon cartridges are stand outs. I have also been impressed by the Goldrings. I have always had a love hate relationship with the Decca line. Their downfall ends to be trackability. They are very expensive now and can give a whole hearted recommendation for that reason alone. I have had two of my Decca cartridges since new, and the last one I got free, because an eBay seller did not know what it was, and chucked it in with a purchase for free.

Here are some pictures of my turntables, so you get the idea.

This turntable equipment I have owned for most of my life. Visitors are astonished at the quality of LP reproduction. Some of the equipment is over 50 years old.

http://mdcarter.smugmug.com/gallery/2424008_RKGvb#127077056

This unit is an eBay restoration and has the "free" Decca.

http://mdcarter.smugmug.com/gallery/2424105_Kh5ff#127081086

For all your vinyl needs, I recommend Needle Doctor. The staff are knowledgeable and helpful. They have equipment for all tastes and budgets. You can pick out a phono preamp there.

http://www.needledoctor.com/

Be careful you might get hooked!

 

[gus6464]

I myself got into vinyl recently and have started to buy more and more records. My old AVR does not have a phono input but I picked up a Rolls Bellari vp129 tube phono preamp online for $208 shipped and it's very nice. Only works well with high output MM cartridges but the sound is superb. Recently ordered an Audio Technica AT440MLa cartridge and should be here any day. It is replacing a Shure V-series cart that the TT came with. Next upgrade after that will be the Michell Technoweight for my RB250. I love the sound of vinyl compared to a lot of my CDs as they make my speakers really sing.

I have been eyeing audiogon lately for a nice Arcam integrated and just picked up a pair of Dali Ikon 2 for cheap. It would be nice to have brand new gear but I have come to realize that you can get so much more for your money by buying used.

 

[3db]

Couldn't find any place to put this post where it would fit in really well, so I'll do it here

I am looking at getting into vinyl. My friend has a modest set of good old records he got from his father and I have been bitten by the uniqueness of the sound of the recordings. I am curious about a couple things.
First, can anyone give some suggestions on a good quality, entry level record player (sub $200 would be ideal)
Secondly, I have a Yamaha HTR-5840, do I need an external phono amp?
Thanks for your usefulness as always.

Mike

I finally replaced my old turntable that fell off the moving truck with a turntable from ProJect, the Xpression2 for around $499.00 That was $100.00 off the asking price as its been repalced by the Xpression3.

I'm very happy with it, good speed stability, runs amazingly quiet, comes equipped with a carbon fiber tone arm which is also seen in their more expensive models. Tracks very well. I don't feel like I need to upgrade it. It comes very close to matching the older Rega P3s in performance. Very very close.

Project makes an entry level table called the Debut3 for around $300.00 Its a better built turntable than the entry level Rega P1 or the similar Music Hall M1. ProJect also makes a decent entry level pre-amp as well.

The Technics guys love to bash anything that isn't direct drive.

 

[3db]

Be careful you might get hooked!

gawd, aint that the truth. Since I got my TT, my CD player has been collecting dust.

 

[cbraver]

The Technics guys love to bash anything that isn't direct drive.

With a few exceptions, this is admittedly very true, but I don't get too upset if people get something else. It's just a tough turntable to beat, from the turntablist perspective, but also from the hi-fi perspective. Stanton STR8-150's are great decks also, in my opinion.

gawd, aint that the truth. Since I got my TT, my CD player has been collecting dust.

Here on campus I don't bring my decks because if I do I end up using them too much. So, since I have no disipline I have to leave them at home, haha! It's true, after you get a deck, CD's just fall flat. It's thumbing through your records, putting it on the platter, queing it up ... it makes music more of an activity. I use wine boxes to store my records, buying crates got too expensive! Haha.

 

[Geno]

TLS Guy is giving you good advice. The Needle Doctor has TTs from $100 to $35,000 (not inclucing the cartridge!) I bought my Music Hall from them and had an excellent buying experience. I still enjoy my LP collection, but still maintain that multichannel SACD and DVD-A is pretty much superior to anything else I've ever heard. Like TLS, I've spent most of my music-listening life with vinyl - it's a very different experience than digital.

 

[mudrummer99]

yeah, that's one of my big pet peeves about a lot of people. I've noticed people will say vinyl is it and all else is crap or digital is it and all else is crap, what I personally think is that each has it's own sound to appreciated on it's own merit. Why compare two completely different experiences and try to say this is better or that is better. I'm not saying that's what you are saying, I'm just saying I've noticed that in general and I'm glad very few if any people on this forum take that kind of stance. Over on some other forums it's just short of jihaad.

Mike

 

[chadnliz]

I would suggest you go to Audiogon.com for serious Vinyl advice, Thorens, Rega, Project are all great ideas...the Bellari is loved and hated so be aware, the budget Creek MM phono amps are great, NAD makes a good budget model also..........Audiogon has tons of used tables and Phono pre amps to save you money from mostly people who care for equipment unlike Ebay where it can be a real crap shoot. If you can look for a used SOTA star/saphire as they can be had cheap often, these tables smoke or sound just as good as every single model members pointed out. Be careful, you may fall hopelessly in love with Vinyl and its a slippery slope.

 

[gus6464]

I would suggest you go to Audiogon.com for serious Vinyl advice, Thorens, Rega, Project are all great ideas...the Bellari is loved and hated so be aware, the budget Creek MM phono amps are great, NAD makes a good budget model also..........Audiogon has tons of used tables and Phono pre amps to save you money from mostly people who care for equipment unlike Ebay where it can be a real crap shoot. If you can look for a used SOTA star/saphire as they can be had cheap often, these tables smoke or sound just as good as every single model members pointed out. Be careful, you may fall hopelessly in love with Vinyl and its a slippery slope.

The Cambridge 640A is also very good according to some people. I would go for a phono preamp that can take both MM/MC cartridges as you never know which cart will strike your fancy. Before I ordered my AT440MLa I wanted a Benz Micro MC20E2-H but the Bellari is not meant for MC. You also have the Parasound Z-phono which I hear is another solid budget phono-pre.

 

[gus6464]

This is not a bad deal IMO for this Rega: It's $450 though.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1207020858

Music Hall MMF-2.1
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1208002053

Music Hall MMF-5
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1207182271

 

[TLS Guy]

This is not a bad deal IMO for this Rega: It's $450 though.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1207020858

Music Hall MMF-2.1
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1208002053

Music Hall MMF-5
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1207182271

That Music Hall MMF-5 is worth it for the Shure V15 xmr alone. Those go for a lot more than that on eBay and hardly ever come up. I know I was criticized for my cartridge advice, but I would stand by Shure any day. They play the most records with the least fuss and have a beautiful neutral tonal balance. The V 15 xmr in my view can not be bested by cartridges costing $30,000. Ortofon have produced consistently fine cartridges for 50 years. I picked up a Goldring high output moving coil and was fairly impressed. Reviewers have been also. I can stand edgy cartridges and that's always been most.

 

[The Dukester]

I'll second on the Thorens tables, also. I use one It was one of their lower priced models when I bought it, a TD105, but it has been a good one.
Mudrummer, where do you live? I found a great place just outside Atlanta that has a lot of turntables, cartridges and such. They set them up, also.

 

[3db]

That Music Hall MMF-5 is worth it for the Shure V15 xmr alone. Those go for a lot more than that on eBay and hardly ever come up. I know I was criticized for my cartridge advice, but I would stand by Shure any day. They play the most records with the least fuss and have a beautiful neutral tonal balance. The V 15 xmr in my view can not be bested by cartridges costing $30,000. Ortofon have produced consistently fine cartridges for 50 years. I picked up a Goldring high output moving coil and was fairly impressed. Reviewers have been also. I can stand edgy cartridges and that's always been most.

My ProJect table came with an Ortofon OM-10 cartridge and I'm quite happy with it. I heard that Ortofon has recently discontinued that line .

 

[chadnliz]

Who makes a $30,000 cart? The most I have seen and heard is less than $15,000.