It's high time I ask for a raise, but I need advice...

[ErinH]

Some background:

• I'm an Aerospace Engineer student in my Senior year and graduating in May. Currently holding a 3.26 GPA, which isn't spectacular but isn't horrible either.

• 
  I work part-time (21 hrs/wk) for a major NASA contractor. Let's call them "X"

• I co-oped for a total of 14 months with "X". After my last co-op semester, which ended in fall, I asked if I could work this semester part-time so I could keep some income coming in and since I'm only taking 9 credit hours this last semester. They pulled some strings and got me on.

• Throughout the 14 months of co-op I never once got a raise. Just the same hourly rate. Shitty, yes, but I didn't feel comforatable asking for a raise. In addition, the co-ops that started when I did never got raises when they came back each additional semester, either.

• I recently found out that the other co-ops who started their co-op after me did get raises each semester.
• Now I hear that X might be giving us backpay for those semesters we should have gotten 'cost of living' raises, which about to about 3% per year and that it's now traveled to the corporate office where it will be decided

So, now that I've gotten that out of the way, here's my current situation.

I'm still making THE EXACT SAME $$$/hour I was when I first came on, though I do now get benefits if I choose to take them, which will lower my check even more.

I didnt' really care that much until I got my check this afternoon and realized how crappy I'm getting paid.

That's bullshit, but I'm honestly scared to ask for a raise because I feel it could be detrimental to my future with the company (which I am now starting to second guess). I am a lock for a full-time position when I graduate, but I don't want to sour that by looking "greedy". Now, please understand why I feel I would look greedy: the 21 hours/week isn't a lot of hours first off. Secondly, I'm not there as much as I used to be because of school, though my supervisor and customer completely understand this. If they didn't, they wouldn't have asked me to stay on part time and gone through the hoops they did to get me that position. <- Which brings up the 3rd "issue" I have with asking for a raise: they already did a lot for me, why should they do more?

Honestly, I'm flat out intimidated to ask for a raise, but I know if I don't ask I'll never get one. I'm just wondering if I should ride out the 3.5 months I have left until graduation and deal with getting paid garbage in contrast to looking like someone who's unappreciative of his position/chance. I've done good work, done a lot of work, have numerous things published on our internal websites, and have well-document test procedures/plans I've written up. I've always gotten positive feedback and have never felt like I wasn't doing what I was expected to.

I know there are many options in my area so I'm likely to start applying for other positions within the next couple weeks. I'm sure with my experience I should at the least, get interviews.

So, if you were me, what would you do. How would you do it?
Take into consideration what I've said.

 

[mazersteven]

Don't be intimidated. Just walk into the "bosses" office and ask.

"Forget about it!"

 

[ErinH]

haha, thanks for the laugh.

 

[sparky77]

My current "REAL" job is only part times, and I work nights, the most difficult shift of course, and I get paid 50 cents more than the rest, which still only amounts to 7.50 an hour. Yes the cost of living her is much lower than where your at, I'm almost positive about that, but it all comes down to what the company thinks your worth. I nearly got fired asking for a raise after a year and half with this newborn company, until I settled on getting their new insurance plan which leaves each of my paychecks 15 dollars shorter than before, but, hey, I have real insurance now.

Big companies just don't feel any real losses from losing an undergraduate, but maybe some other audioholics mass conglomerate corperate experience will have more insight.

It's not easy to ask for a raise, I feel your pain. I've had to ask for a raise with 5 other jobs too, and they were'nt even paying much more than minimum to start out with. It's just not a fun game to play.........

 

[pzaur]

If/when you do ask, be prepared to back up your request with reasoning. Don't demand one. It really wouldn't hurt to ask and you never know until you do.

I used to work for Bruegger's Bagels when I was in college. I started at minimum and stayed at whatever the pay was with the accompanying "time of employment" raises that many companies do. I then quit for some time. After I graduated, I asked if I could come back to work and be paid $11.00/hour. They gave me $9.25 (or something more). One of the managers balked because I was making "too much" to be a line worker. But, I asked for something and got something in return (same position, higher pay, not a manager )

-pat

 

[highfihoney]

I understand your concerns about asking for a raise,the first thing you need to do is to get your personal feelings out of the way & forget about what others are getting,what you think you deserve is based on personal issues,what your boss thinks you deserve is based on business,before you decide ask yourself a few questions & get some issues out of the way.

Issues of no consequence.

1 What others are getting paid,there is no way for one person to base their income level on what others make,its a set up for disaster & hard feelings,everybody likes to think their worth just as much as the next guy but that is rarely the case in employers eye's.

2 What perceived favors if any your employer has done for you,another non issue,most likely anything you think was done for you in the line of favors is not so,rarely do employers do anything extra unless it benifits them in some way,you may not know the resons but rest assured they are self serving on the employers part,and rightly so,it's business.

3 Back pay,another non issue,this can be a very tricky situation & will either make or break you in the employers eye's if handeled poorly,if somebody allready started the back pay deal then by all means take what they give you but dont step foward acting as if your owed something.

Stuff to ask yourself about your current employeer.

1 Is this a company you can see yourself making a career with.

2 Is this a company that is proven to pay its AMBITIOUS employees better than average wages.

3 What is your desirability status at other companies in the same industry.

4 Are there multiple employeers in this industry,this is very important when first starting on a career path.

5 Can you afford to burn this bridge.

6 What would your entry level pay be with another company in the industry.

Things to ask yourself about why you deserve a raise.

1 Is this prospective raise based on what others make,be serious.

2 What have you done or how has your performance grown to show you deserve an increase in pay.

3 How has your performance been compared to others performance,dig deep & look at yourself through your employers eyes.

These are all things i look at & think about when one of my men ask for something.

 

[ErinH]

^ Good info.

I realize that what I posted is leading to the idea that I feel I deserve a raise based on what other's are making. While that looks like the case, the real reason I feel I deserve one is because I've been there for over a year, steadily increasing my knowledge, getting better at my work, producing things quickly, always doing my job and ocassionaly working extra hours without asking for overtime (or getting it). Considering the fact that I've designed cryogenic systems all the way from specing out line size, considering gas expansion, putting the right components in line, etc etc... hell, you get the point. I just feel, rather know, that I at least deserve to get some sort of raise based on the fact that my knowledge and education has increased steadily as I've been with the company. Hell, regular employees get a 3% per year raise for cost of living at the least. I haven't gotten a raise once.

But, at the same time, I've got "the other side of the coin" to deal with. yes, I realize my supervisor may not have done me as big a favor as I thought. He's actually reaping the benefits b/c they pay me less than half of what their full time engineers are paid, yet I still do the same work as they do because I don't have my degree yet. That's about as cut and dry as it is.

Luckily my area is home to the US's 2nd largest research park. We have Boeing, L-M, Raytheon, Teledyne Brown, Army, NASA, my company, etc, etc. There are tons of places looking for fresh outs. I do have a lot of options to pursue in the coming months. And I will be for sure. If for nothing else than to have some leverage when it comes down to negotiating salary.

I almost think I need to gut out the next couple months and deal with it. Then when I go to negotiate with my company maybe I could bring up the fact that I was never given increases in pay and maybe use that to my advantage... though that would be tricky.

As for the backpay thing... I'm not touching that issue. My stance now is that if they give me that then I DEFINATELY won't go asking for a raise. Additionally, my HR coordinator is going to try to get me a $1k stipend for school (something they do for co-ops) even though I am no longer a co-op. If that happens then I will certainly not ask for a raise.

Thanks for the help so far.

 

[Sheep]

From what I've seen, if you're been a great employee, the only thing that will mess it up is how you ask. If you're careful and tread lightly, I'm sure a reasonable employer won't disallow a raise where it's deserved.

SheepStar

 

[stratman]

Read Highfihoney's list and memorize it, I have my own company, but I hire independent contractors. You're in a peculiar position, you're still a student, you're only part time, the firm hasn't really "hired" you yet, so I would be careful as to how you ask, in my opinion if you can swing the 3.5 months without suffering drastically, I'd wait before asking, if you're sure this is where you want to be employed after college.

 

[Rickster71]

Hi Erin,
You've mentioned of the many employment options there.
I would do as you suggest, go on some interviews; since you graduate in May, you're a prime candidate.

If employer 'X' decides to hire you in May, at that time negotiate pay.
Especially if you consider the long term potential.

You're at the beginning of a career; and should view it as such.
Look at the long term, and not at a few bucks an hour, for the next three months.
You've waited this long for a raise, three more months is nothing.
Good Luck
Rick

 

[OttoMatic]

Read Highfihoney's list and memorize it, I have my own company, but I hire independent contractors. You're in a peculiar position, you're still a student, you're only part time, the firm hasn't really "hired" you yet, so I would be careful as to how you ask, in my opinion if you can swing the 3.5 months without suffering drastically, I'd wait before asking, if you're sure this is where you want to be employed after college.

I think I'll agree to wait till May. What's done is done. Right now, you should be looking for competing offers. Your current knowledge in company X will make you more valuable to them as you graduate. The competing offers will indicate overall trends in the market as to what you're worth (more so than what your friends are making). Without being "in their face" I would discuss the competing offer trend, your knowledge of the products, your service to the company and your lack of past raises. I would guess that you will get the best offer from this company when the time comes.

Now, whether you want to take it, and whether you want to stay at the company, is another thing...

Good luck!

 

[Alex2507]

If you don't ask, you don't get. If there is a chance that you'll be canned for asking you should find another job where the company is willing to fairly compensate you for your time and won't punish you for looking after your own interests. I believe that working OT without getting paid OT is a sin. What you bring to the table is of value. If it wasn't so, they would have let you know in no uncertain terms.

Another one of my beliefs is that success in the work place is one part ability and two parts being able to get along. So ask nicely.

 

[Tom Andry]

In my experience, the unfortunate reality is that students get paid next to nothing, no matter how good they are. It is just the way it works. I think, to a certain extent, they see the experience you receive as part of your pay. I agree with those that have said to wait and disagree with those that say it couldn't hurt to ask. At graduation is the time to negotiate a (hopefully significant) pay increase. If they are still wanting to low-ball you, then just walk away. You get the experience and their name on your resume AND a good recommendation.

Also, take with a grain of salt those salaries you hear people getting as soon as they graduate. They are almost always inflated and/or made up. I lost a number of possible positions after grad school because of unrealistic expectations.

 

[highfihoney]

I believe that working OT without getting paid OT is a sin. What you bring to the table is of value

Working OT without OT pay sucks i agree but it's a valuable tool to accelerate the rise to the top of the heap,working free OT is looked down on by most employee's,however the same act of donation that employees look down on employers remember,it sticks in their mind "this guy is a company man".

 

[Alex2507]

I think the company is all the company man any company needs. When you donate your OT rate, it's the same as taking it out of another workers pocket. I'm sure you've heard all that before. Unions have rules about that sort of thing and for good reason too.

I just want to restate that if asking for a raise may cause you harm, the company sucks.

 

[Rickster71]

I think the company is all the company man any company needs. When you donate your OT rate, it's the same as taking it out of another workers pocket. I'm sure you've heard all that before. Unions have rules about that sort of thing and for good reason too.

I just want to restate that if asking for a raise may cause you harm, the company sucks.

Hi Alex, you've mentioned the union.
So think of it this way; an apprentice has to pay his dues. (not literally)
Erin is at the apprentice stage of his/her career. In fact he/she is still in school.
So, sometimes you gots to do what one gots to do; to be hired full time.

Rick

 

[Alex2507]

If you're an apprentice and can outclass a journeyman there are companies that will pay you above your scale. As an apprentice there are scheduled pay raises every 6 months or so and my last point stands on it's own. Asking is not a sin.

I know I'm ignoring the ways of the world. Another thing I refuse to accept is the notion that in an interview you shouldn't ask about pay. That's the first thing I want to know. I gotta be the one who's missed the boat on something here. It's like my information packet is missing pages or something.

I'll admit it, I probably shouldn't be listened to.

 

[chadnliz]

I managed 3 printing companies and handled 45 printing shops in 3 states and often I was approached by employees wanting an opinion on a raise or promotion from a Corporate Regional mgr,many times my answer was the same I will give you.
My advice is if you think you are worth more then show them, I would not discuss any financial problems you may have or the economy in general, that will open the door for them to remind you times may be tough. What I would do is make a list of all your duties and accomplishments aswell as goals you have for you in the future. In doing this you hopefully make them take notice of how valuable you are and in listing your goals it will send a message that you intend to grow with your current employer. Ask them to schedule a time to talk so you know they have the time to sit with you, when you get that chance to sit with them Be firm but polite, arrogance will get you nowhere and show them your list (neatly prepared) and if you do not get an imediate answer make sure the list stays with them, and enquire about their thoughts after a few days. I wish you luck! Chad

 

[gregt16g]

Hi Erin,
You've mentioned of the many employment options there.
I would do as you suggest, go on some interviews; since you graduate in May, you're a prime candidate.

If employer 'X' decides to hire you in May, at that time negotiate pay.
Especially if you consider the long term potential.

You're at the beginning of a career; and should view it as such.
Look at the long term, and not at a few bucks an hour, for the next three months.
You've waited this long for a raise, three more months is nothing.
Good Luck
Rick

...My advice is if you think you are worth more then show them, I would not discuss any financial problems you may have or the economy in general, that will open the door for them to remind you times may be tough. What I would do is make a list of all your duties and accomplishments aswell as goals you have for you in the future. In doing this you hopefully make them take notice of how valuable you are and in listing your goals it will send a message that you intend to grow with your current employer. Ask them to schedule a time to talk so you know they have the time to sit with you, when you get that chance to sit with them Be firm but polite, arrogance will get you nowhere and show them your list (neatly prepared) and if you do not get an imediate answer make sure the list stays with them, and enquire about their thoughts after a few days. I wish you luck! Chad

VERY sound advice from Rickster71, chadnilz & hifihoney...

One of the keys in today's market, in any profession, is to show how you create value for your employer. Assuming you, and all of the other interns, can perform the tasks necessary to do the job, you need to show the employer what additional value you bring the operation which, usually, makes for an easier decision on the part of the employer to offer more money. During the meeting get your manager/decision maker to talk about you. Ask open ended questions; "How do you value me as part of this company?" not "Do you think I am valuable?" for example. This will definitely let you know where you stand with them & if it is worth continuing.
You should wait the 3.5 months & interview as much as possible during this time too. Interviewing is an art & needs to be practiced.

The only thing I disagree on is make sure you get an answer before you leave, if it is appropriate (depending on if they must clear it through additional people.)
"I know your time is valuable and I would like to move forward after this meeting. Do you think we can agree on a figure today?" or something to that effect....

Also, don't be afraid of silence during the meeting. I've had employees talk themselves right out of a raise simply because I was slient for a few moments.

Good Luck!

 

[Halon451]

Some background:

• I'm an Aerospace Engineer student in my Senior year and graduating in May. Currently holding a 3.26 GPA, which isn't spectacular but isn't horrible either.

• 
  I work part-time (21 hrs/wk) for a major NASA contractor. Let's call them "X"

• I co-oped for a total of 14 months with "X". After my last co-op semester, which ended in fall, I asked if I could work this semester part-time so I could keep some income coming in and since I'm only taking 9 credit hours this last semester. They pulled some strings and got me on.

• Throughout the 14 months of co-op I never once got a raise. Just the same hourly rate. Shitty, yes, but I didn't feel comforatable asking for a raise. In addition, the co-ops that started when I did never got raises when they came back each additional semester, either.

• I recently found out that the other co-ops who started their co-op after me did get raises each semester.
• Now I hear that X might be giving us backpay for those semesters we should have gotten 'cost of living' raises, which about to about 3% per year and that it's now traveled to the corporate office where it will be decided

So, now that I've gotten that out of the way, here's my current situation.

I'm still making THE EXACT SAME $$$/hour I was when I first came on, though I do now get benefits if I choose to take them, which will lower my check even more.

I didnt' really care that much until I got my check this afternoon and realized how crappy I'm getting paid.

That's bullshit, but I'm honestly scared to ask for a raise because I feel it could be detrimental to my future with the company (which I am now starting to second guess). I am a lock for a full-time position when I graduate, but I don't want to sour that by looking "greedy". Now, please understand why I feel I would look greedy: the 21 hours/week isn't a lot of hours first off. Secondly, I'm not there as much as I used to be because of school, though my supervisor and customer completely understand this. If they didn't, they wouldn't have asked me to stay on part time and gone through the hoops they did to get me that position. <- Which brings up the 3rd "issue" I have with asking for a raise: they already did a lot for me, why should they do more?

Honestly, I'm flat out intimidated to ask for a raise, but I know if I don't ask I'll never get one. I'm just wondering if I should ride out the 3.5 months I have left until graduation and deal with getting paid garbage in contrast to looking like someone who's unappreciative of his position/chance. I've done good work, done a lot of work, have numerous things published on our internal websites, and have well-document test procedures/plans I've written up. I've always gotten positive feedback and have never felt like I wasn't doing what I was expected to.

I know there are many options in my area so I'm likely to start applying for other positions within the next couple weeks. I'm sure with my experience I should at the least, get interviews.

So, if you were me, what would you do. How would you do it?
Take into consideration what I've said.

Well, after reading your post I can't think of much else to suggest after everyone else's great advice, so I'll merely say good luck and I hope it works out!