Suddenly confused: 2 Questions on Blueray Players

[itschris]

I've been about to purchase a Pioneer Elite BDP-95FD for about a week now, until I started reading everything here in this forum. I suddenly realized I'm not sure about a couple things:

1) It appears a lot of player do the decoding. Is that even necessary? I thought the decoding was done in the Pre/Pro or Receiver like the new Elite THX 94. Am I paying for something I don't need? Would the player decoding only be valuable if my pre/pro didn't have the newer digital formats?

2) I decided against getting the Elite AV58 DVD player since I could just play DVD's on the BlueRay player. But does it upconvert? I know a lot of standalone DVD players now upconvert which I would think is a valuable feature. I can't tell if the blueray players like the Elite will do this.

Thanx in advance to everyone. I have to tell you that I've learned a lot in the past few days and have really gotten caught up on a lot of the new stuff. I just want to let everyone know I appreciate the advice and the help.

 

[adk highlander]

1) It appears a lot of player do the decoding. Is that even necessary? I thought the decoding was done in the Pre/Pro or Receiver like the new Elite THX 94. Am I paying for something I don't need? Would the player decoding only be valuable if my pre/pro didn't have the newer digital formats?

It will be hard to find a player right now that does not do at least your garden variety DD & DTS formats and many will do at least one of the new lossless formats. If you want your receiver to do the decoding it will need bitstream from the player which is not available for some of the players so if you want this you may actually pay more right now. The player doing the decoding is important if your receiver cannot and with HDMI 1.1 or above it will be able to play the LPCM output from the player.

2) I decided against getting the Elite AV58 DVD player since I could just play DVD's on the BlueRay player. But does it upconvert? I know a lot of standalone DVD players now upconvert which I would think is a valuable feature. I can't tell if the blueray players like the Elite will do this.

The player will upconvert but some are better than others. I'm sure the BDP-95FD will do a fine job and a second player for SD DVD's should not be neccessary.

 

[j_garcia]

Blu-ray, not BLUE.

 

[The Chukker]

I have this player and yes it will decode DTS-MA as well as Dolby TrueHD internally and output them via the analog outputs as 5.1 PCM (48khz). It upconverts decently, however my Denon 2910 outperforms this unit for both SD DVD upconversion and especially for 2 ch audio. After a much recommended firmware update right out the box, this unit performs flawlessly for BD media.

 

[itschris]

Is it better to have the BLU-Ray player do the decoding even if your a/v piece can do it as well. After much internal debate, I've decided on the Elite VSX-94TXH which seems to have just about every available current format. If that's the case, should I forgoe a player that decodes? I'm just wondering if I'd be paying a lot of money for something I don't need if the receiver can do it just fine.

 

[Cozmo]

Is it better to have the BLU-Ray player do the decoding even if your a/v piece can do it as well. After much internal debate, I've decided on the Elite VSX-94TXH which seems to have just about every available current format. If that's the case, should I forgoe a player that decodes? I'm just wondering if I'd be paying a lot of money for something I don't need if the receiver can do it just fine.

For me one issue is that you probably will have more options for bass management in the receiver (speaker/sub crossovers) than in the DVD player unless your receiver can apply the bass management settings to the analog inputs (mine cannot).

 

[j_garcia]

Yes, bass management would be the primary concern, as most players don't have as much flexibility as the typical receiver these days. If your receiver does the decoding, you don't need the player to do it, but I'd be looking at the overall quality of the player and not worry about whether it does decoding or not.

 

[itschris]

Yes, bass management would be the primary concern, as most players don't have as much flexibility as the typical receiver these days. If your receiver does the decoding, you don't need the player to do it, but I'd be looking at the overall quality of the player and not worry about whether it does decoding or not.

That makes sense. I'm not terribly concerned about spending the money for the Elite player, I just don't want to necessarily throw it out the window however. As I redo my theater, I want to try and keep some of the components matching which I why I'm trying to stick with the Elite equip. From what I've reading, there's supposed to be a new Blu-ray spec comiing soon. In your estimation, is it worth waiting for? I can certainly live with just my existing Progressive Scan DVD and HD programming. I just don't want to get caught in that trap of always waiting for the new thing just around the corner which often results in getting nothing at all.

 

[Cozmo]

Yes, bass management would be the primary concern, as most players don't have as much flexibility as the typical receiver these days. If your receiver does the decoding, you don't need the player to do it, but I'd be looking at the overall quality of the player and not worry about whether it does decoding or not.

Whether you use it or not, my gut feeling is that the majority of the higher quality players out there will have the decoding built in....as is the case now with SD.

 

[jostenmeat]

Is it better to have the BLU-Ray player do the decoding even if your a/v piece can do it as well. After much internal debate, I've decided on the Elite VSX-94TXH which seems to have just about every available current format. If that's the case, should I forgoe a player that decodes? I'm just wondering if I'd be paying a lot of money for something I don't need if the receiver can do it just fine.

I submit that it will generally be better to have the receiver do the unpacking, if you had the choice.

-most early consumer and pro reviews subjectively state that it sounds better! Including a CNET review.
-as already stated, bass management is both limited, and "unpredictable". (Just how big is the LFE cut? 10db? 20db? none? How are you to know?). Do you have to change your sub levels each time between different sources?
-lastly, and perhaps stupidly, it would be nice to have the logos light up on the receiver, ie DTS-MA, TrueHD, etc.

OTOH, I am sure many persons have the player unpacking, and everything is working just perfectly...

From what I've reading, there's supposed to be a new Blu-ray spec comiing soon. In your estimation, is it worth waiting for? I can certainly live with just my existing Progressive Scan DVD and HD programming. I just don't want to get caught in that trap of always waiting for the new thing just around the corner which often results in getting nothing at all.

My feelings exactly. When I bought my player, the only thing I was waiting so long for (ok, little over a year), was for someone to finally solve MA. That was my priority. My player is 1.1 profile, but I honestly could not care any less. I never have had the desire to watch PIP commentary, etc. I think my feelings toward 2.0 will be identical. Others will disagree, but for me, all I do with my player is watch movies, and that's it.

-jostenmeat

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have this player and yes it (Pioneer Elite BDP-95FD) will decode DTS-MA as well as Dolby TrueHD internally and output them via the analog outputs as 5.1 PCM (48khz).

According to the product brochure, it can internally decode TrueHD, but it can only send Bitstream of DTS-MA. It seems like the only two BD players that will internally decode DTS-MA are the upcoming Panasonic DMP-BD50 and the $2,000 Denon BD player. All the ones out currently can only send DTS-MA via bitstream to the receiver.

 

[itschris]

Okay, I'm gonna two more questions and I swear I'll stop for awhile. Are the TrueHD and DTS-MA sound formats? I'm not sure how those relate to Dolby Digital 5.1/7.1. Are these just different surround formats? What exactly do they do?

 

[adk highlander]

TrueHD and DTS MA are the new Lossless high def surround formats. All of the Blu-ray players out right now AFAIK will decode regular DD and DTS.

By lossless this means that they include the entire frequency range of the original studio sound track. They are not compressed for space or bandwidth.

I also agree with jostenmeat about having the receiver or prepro doing the decoding. I doubt there is any true difference in sound quality but I do hear a difference in the levels (truHD on my A2 is much lower than bitream on my blu-ray). Now all this means is I have to turn up the HD DVD's more to achieve the same spl.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Is it better to have the BLU-Ray player do the decoding even if your a/v piece can do it as well. After much internal debate, I've decided on the Elite VSX-94TXH which seems to have just about every available current format. If that's the case, should I forgoe a player that decodes? I'm just wondering if I'd be paying a lot of money for something I don't need if the receiver can do it just fine.

Yeah, I would just get the $410 Panasonic DMP-BD30, which will send DTS-MA & TrueHD via Bitstream to your Pioneer Elite receiver to do the decoding.