Dealer suggests Universal MX Remote--Please Help

[lreinstein]

I am having an new HT setup installed by a professional installer. He is a dealer for Universal Remotes so naturally he is recommending I install one of them. My main sources are DVD player and TivoHD with Cable Cards. I will also need an RF system because of placement of the units.

Although these are clearly more expensive than some of the alternatives (eg, Logitech), that is not the crucial issue for me. What I would like advice on is:

1. Do thes MX remotes (the 950, 980, or the 3000) provide good functionality, easy to use, etc.?

2. I am worried that all future programming will need to be done by the dealer and this will be very expensive ongoing cost any time i change a component. Is this true? Will I be able to program these myself (I am relatively tech savvy but not at a high level)? How easy is the programming

Thanks much

LR

 

[Gimpy Ric]

I am having an new HT setup installed by a professional installer. He is a dealer for Universal Remotes so naturally he is recommending I install one of them. My main sources are DVD player and TivoHD with Cable Cards. I will also need an RF system because of placement of the units.

Although these are clearly more expensive than some of the alternatives (eg, Logitech), that is not the crucial issue for me. What I would like advice on is:

1. Do thes MX remotes (the 950, 980, or the 3000) provide good functionality, easy to use, etc.?

2. I am worried that all future programming will need to be done by the dealer and this will be very expensive ongoing cost any time i change a component. Is this true? Will I be able to program these myself (I am relatively tech savvy but not at a high level)? How easy is the programming

Thanks much

LR

I'm not familiar with these remotes, but I'm a fan of Logitech. All the logitechs are programed off the web! Just buy a model that supports the rf extender, and your good to go.

You plug the logitech harmony into your USB port, connect to their website, and start selecting the make and models of your audio/video gear. They have over 175,000 remotes in their database, even my Emotiva prepro was their!

Then, once the makes and models of your gear are in the remote, you setup activities. Activites are cool! They are like macros, you can click one button, say "watch tv" on the top of the remote, and the remote will turn on all the gear, like your tv, prepro/receiver, and switchs the imputs you have defined in that activity.

Wanna watch a movie? Just click "watch a movie" and your prepro/receiver auto switchs to your dvd, turns on the dvd, corrects the inputs on your tv! And will switch your prepro/receiver. Schweet!

Stay away from the tablet model, the Logitech Harmony 1000, I have one, and its more of a pain to use than the "remote shaped models". A real pain. I just have the 670, and it does the trick, the 1000 sits on its charger.

Your account stays on logitechs website for free, so you can make changes yourself, as needed. Their tech support is great too, if you need help. Give them a try, and if you and the teenager next door can't do it, send it back, you've got 30 days. Ask your installer if he offers a 30 day trail.

Logitech Remote Website

 

[bandphan]

im programming a 3000 now! These are ci type remotes, different from logitechs, in that they are home automation products(crestron uses the mx3000, rebranded in their line)The marcros are activity based, and bullit proof. If you choose to program them yourself they can be difficult the first time. Outside of the 3000, the 900's are easier for "anyone" to use and do not intimadte. No knock on logis, just more custom. You can pm me if you need assistance

 

[MDS]

The MX series is a great choice but if all you have is a receiver, cable box, and dvd player you don't need the MX-900 or 950 and you damn sure don't need the 3000.

All you need is the MX-350 and with the MRF-250 RF basestation you have everything you need for $250. But, you'll have to program it yourself. If you have all the original remotes you can just learn every code you need from the original remotes. It actually goes very quickly. The time consuming part is figuring out what functions you want on which page and labeling each of the buttons before you begin.

If you want 'activities' like Gimpy Ric is talking about you can do that too - just have to decide what you want on each page; for example, my cable and dvd devices have a mix of receiver commands on the page too.

The software to program the higher end of the line is only available from an authorized retailer or custom installer and you'll likely have to have them re-program it if your needs change unless they will give you the software. The downside to them IMO is that you must use the computer to program it - if you need to make one little change to a macro you cannot do it in ten seconds while sitting in front of the TV like you can with the models that require programming on the remote itself.

 

[AUtiger]

From my exploration of the diff. remotes is that logitech is more logical (easier initially) in set up but less flexible to customize. Also, the build quality of the URC's are reportedly better. I just ordered a URC MasterControl RF30 Universal Learning Remote w/ RF Capability" & "URC MRF100B PowerBlaster For Use w/ MasterControl RF Series Remotes" from Amazon for under $100. This was based on a recommendation from someone with basically the same set up as mine. Logitech has a new model "Harmony One" www.logitech.com/index.cfm/remotes/universal_remotes/&cl=us,en coming out in Feb. while not RF, you could add an IR receiver to control hidden equip. There are lots of forums on both companies' products.

Remote decisions are worse than equip, especially for the price.

 

[MDS]

The RF30 is very similar to the MX-350 and would also be a good choice. The difference is that the MX-350 can be set to transmit IR, RF or both for every device and the emitters are assignable. The RF30 always transmits both IR and RF at the same time and the emitters are not assignable but that is not much of a problem for uncomplicated systems with only a few components.

 

[Hi Ho]

I used to use a Harmony 688 and I swore by it. I thought it was great! Well, it is a great remote but I like the URC MX-900 a lot more. It is much more cusomizable and the macros are much more bullet proof especially with the MRF-350 base station. I also think the build quality is better and the button layout and feel is superior.

Since I have an installer login through work I can program it myself and get all of the necessary software updates. URC doesn't give consumers the updated software with the complete IR database so while you could attempt to reprogram it yourself, you may run into problems.

The MX-350 is a good option if you're worried about programming costs, which can add up.

 

[bandphan]

If you uninstall/reinstall you can get updated, the only benefit that urc doesnt offer consumers is an increased template, graphic, database to download from their installer login page on the web, other than that, the live update saves you the unin/rein step. If its a big deal im sure they will give the LIVE update verson to you. PM me if you need to discuss further or need a voice

 

[Haoleb]

I can tell you without a doubt that programming an MX900 is WAY eaiser than a 350... Im sorry to say it but I absolutely hate the MX350, The way its programmed is absolutely ridiculous. I can do a mx900 or tx1000 in about 10 minutes in the average system. I spent at least an hour doing the 350 the last time I had to do it.

Personally I would reccomend the MX900, It is easy to use and much more sophisticated than the Logitech remotes which I have found to be too dumbed down to allow any real flexibility. The first time you look at the programming software you'll probably think "what have i done!" but once the dealer programs it you can just upload that program to your computer and tweak it from there. The only time you would need to reprogram it is if you buy a new peice of equipment or change around inputs. Also, the software is available for download from Universal's website as long as you have the serial number of the remote.

 

[MDS]

I can tell you without a doubt that programming an MX900 is WAY eaiser than a 350... Im sorry to say it but I absolutely hate the MX350, The way its programmed is absolutely ridiculous. I can do a mx900 or tx1000 in about 10 minutes in the average system. I spent at least an hour doing the 350 the last time I had to do it.

Sure it takes awhile because you are doing it manually on the remote. The way it is programmed is not ridiculous - it is a simple menu driven system and incredibly easy. I'd rather have a remote that is totally self contained and can be changed on the fly without going back to the computer to make mini changes.

If you have a simple system with only a few components why would you want to pay $600 just for the remote when you will use 1/10 of its capabililty? Oh yeah...icons for the lcd buttons. I'll pass.

The high end line of the MX series is for custom installers so they can archive the configuration to save for the day the customer inevitably messes up the remote or to blast to other remotes that need to be configured similarly...and here's the big plus - a huge profit margin selling a customer a 'custom programmed' remote to control their three components. If you're one guy programming it for your own system and not programming hundreds of others the manual on-remote programming is no problem at all.

 

[lreinstein]

additional ignorant questions

I'm not familiar with these remotes, but I'm a fan of Logitech. All the logitechs are programed off the web! Just buy a model that supports the rf extender, and your good to go.

You plug the logitech harmony into your USB port, connect to their website, and start selecting the make and models of your audio/video gear. They have over 175,000 remotes in their database, even my Emotiva prepro was their!

Then, once the makes and models of your gear are in the remote, you setup activities. Activites are cool! They are like macros, you can click one button, say "watch tv" on the top of the remote, and the remote will turn on all the gear, like your tv, prepro/receiver, and switchs the imputs you have defined in that activity.

Wanna watch a movie? Just click "watch a movie" and your prepro/receiver auto switchs to your dvd, turns on the dvd, corrects the inputs on your tv! And will switch your prepro/receiver. Schweet!

Stay away from the tablet model, the Logitech Harmony 1000, I have one, and its more of a pain to use than the "remote shaped models". A real pain. I just have the 670, and it does the trick, the 1000 sits on its charger.

Your account stays on logitechs website for free, so you can make changes yourself, as needed. Their tech support is great too, if you need help. Give them a try, and if you and the teenager next door can't do it, send it back, you've got 30 days. Ask your installer if he offers a 30 day trail.

Logitech Remote Website

Thanks Ric. I was originally thinking about the Logitech Harmony One...the new one just released at CES. But the audio folks were trying to steer me clear. Not sure why. They seem to be impressed by the MX remotes being able to sense the voltage state of the equipment...not sure why that is useful

I would love to go Logitech and save the money. I have a few questions. I believe i will need the RF because the components are all around 12 feet away behind glass doors. If I get the RF extension unit, and the TV is on the wall and the components are in the console behind glass, how easy is it to set it up for communicaton in an inconspicuous and spouse pleasing manner?

Is the IR signal strong enough to travel the 12 - 13 foot distance and through the glass?

If I wanted to cover the glass so the displays of the components dont annoy, is there anything that I could use that would allow the IR to pass but still block the blue displays?

Thanks to all for the help.

LR

 

[Haoleb]

Sure it takes awhile because you are doing it manually on the remote. The way it is programmed is not ridiculous - it is a simple menu driven system and incredibly easy. I'd rather have a remote that is totally self contained and can be changed on the fly without going back to the computer to make mini changes.

If you have a simple system with only a few components why would you want to pay $600 just for the remote when you will use 1/10 of its capabililty? Oh yeah...icons for the lcd buttons. I'll pass.

The high end line of the MX series is for custom installers so they can archive the configuration to save for the day the customer inevitably messes up the remote or to blast to other remotes that need to be configured similarly...and here's the big plus - a huge profit margin selling a customer a 'custom programmed' remote to control their three components. If you're one guy programming it for your own system and not programming hundreds of others the manual on-remote programming is no problem at all.

It is a problem because the remote doesnt have all the codes you need built in already, And there are alot of codes that you cant learn off a stock remote control. Like discreet input codes on tv's. Its not that you need to get their TOTL remote but at the very least I would reccomend one you program on the computer. If you need something for just a tv and a dvd player or whatever yeah, You dont need to spend 500 bucks, But especially if you are using a zone 2 or something like that it would be worth the extra cost just to save the headache it is to do on the 350

 

[lreinstein]

more followup questions

Thanks to all for your interesting comments. I am really trying to decide between something like the latest URC handheld...i believe it is now called the 980, and the new Logitech Harmony One.

I am not sure i understand some of the comments about the RF base station. The dealer told me that they have 2 different URC RF base stations to offer...one way more expensive but offering more active control, awareness of the "state" of the components. Can someone explain to me what this is all about and why I would need it?

You are right...this is a fairly simple system...only HT. My HIFI 2 channel system for music is in our living room...a different location entirely.

Also, is there a difference in how the 2 RF systems interface to the components (Harmony vs URC) with my components being Tivo, DVD, TV, and AVR? My TV is will be wall mounted with inthewall wiring. How will the remote link to this and be inconspicous?

As far as programming...if I go with the URC and have dealer programming to set this up initially, and then buy a new DVD player in a year...is this something I could do myself? Is the editor available to me?

To those of you who suggest that the URC functionality is smoother, can you describe what you mean.

Sorry if any of these questions are dumb and repetitive.

LR

 

[MDS]

It is a problem because the remote doesnt have all the codes you need built in already, And there are alot of codes that you cant learn off a stock remote control. Like discreet input codes on tv's.

If you mean the case where the device, like Sony TVs, have discrete codes available but the original remote doesn't have them then yes it is nice to be able to get the code in some other form like a raw hex code and import it into your remote. The MX remotes can learn pretty much any code that any oem remote can send (except toggle bit type codes are problematic for it).

I'm not against computer programmable remotes (I'm a programmer after all ), it's just that it is overkill for most tasks and once it's done you won't have to do it again for a very long time, if ever, so what does it really buy you? Technically you aren't 'programming' it anyway - you are just configuring it. Instead of pressing buttons on the physical remote you are dragging and dropping and typing into text fields in an application running on your computer.

I am not sure i understand some of the comments about the RF base station. The dealer told me that they have 2 different URC RF base stations to offer...one way more expensive but offering more active control, awareness of the "state" of the components. Can someone explain to me what this is all about and why I would need it?

This goes to the discrete code stuff Haoleb was talking about. Some components have discrete codes, meaning the code does one thing and one thing only as opposed to toggle commands. The best example is Power. Most devices have toggle power commands - if it is on and you press power, it turns off and vice versa. There would be separate discrete On and Off commands if the device supports discrete codes. Discrete codes are better for macros.

The system the dealer is talking about manages the state of components so that you don't need discrete commands. The Harmony does that too but it is very simplistic (it basically sets a bit to remember if the device is on or off). If things get out of sync, the remote can't automatically fix it which is why it has a help system where you tell it the power state of each device so it can update its idea of the power state.

Also, is there a difference in how the 2 RF systems interface to the components (Harmony vs URC) with my components being Tivo, DVD, TV, and AVR? My TV is will be wall mounted with inthewall wiring. How will the remote link to this and be inconspicous?

They all work basically the same. Remote control codes are just numbers sent over the air using either IR or RF using some communication protocol (there are lots of them). The remote transmits the code over the air using radio frequency (typically 418 Mhz, not that that matters). The RF basestation receives the command and retransmits it using IR.

IR requires line of sight with the remote sensor on the component. So you either have the RF basestation's front emitters aimed at your components OR you attach wires called emitters to the basestation and position the end of it near the IR eye of the component. The URC remotes are super powerful and if the emitter is anywhere near the component it will see it, you usually don't have to affix the emitter directly to the component. So if you want everything behind closed doors in a cabinet, you'd have the basestation in there too with wired emitters in the cabinet near the other components.

As far as ease of use goes, my opinion is that the URC remotes are logically laid out and easy to use by feel in the dark. Your thumb naturally rests on the cursor pad when you hold it and you quickly learn how to go from that 'home' position to any other button. For example on the MX-350, the cable guide and info buttons are directly above the cursor pad. In total darkness you move your thumb up and feel the info button and go up a little more to find the guide button. The prev channel button is next to the channel up/down buttons so you slide up to feel the large channel button and slide left to hit prev ch. It's just well thought out. I know that stuff sounds trivial but it is something that makes a remote easy to use. You don't have to look at it to use it.

 

[bandphan]

http://www.universalremote.com/product_detail.php?model=108

 

[AUtiger]

"awareness of the "state" of the components" I think what he is refering to is that if you are watching tv (tv on) and punch the watch dvd button the remote will try and turn the tv on again which will actually turn it off beacause it is already on. This is a toggle. Same scenario- if the remote senses the tv is already on then it will just turn the dvd player and other devices on and leave the tv (already on) as it is. Awareness.

 

[bandphan]

larry,

did you get your install yet