What to do about a 10x10 "bassy" room

[rufas2000]

I looked through the forum but haven't really found anything specific to my situation. My listening room is over bassy and has echo problems. Highs sometimes are muted (cymbal tings and high freq violins). My room specifics are as follows:

10x 10, area rugs cover about half the room.
Window in back of stereo, blinds but no curtain rod
closet in back
four small tables
five freestanding CD / DVD racks. (Would a couple of wooden ones be better?)

The pertinent system info:
2 Channel only (for now)
Denon AVR-987
Klipsch RF-82 Speakers
32 inch LCD TV

Challenges:
I am not a handyman at all
Renter's agreement forbids holes in walls
Not a ton of money

I know its a difficult setup but any advice on the following would be appreciated:

speaker placement (right now two feet from side walls and a foot away from rear walls 5 feet apart, angled in so tweeters are pointing somewhat at me)

room treatments that aren't DIY or put holes in the wall

tips on how to get audyssey to work for me. It always results in a sound that is very mid bassy lacking in highs and lows. Right now I set the mic in my listening chair on a tripod. Do I need to take the chair out of the room?

I've managed to EQ it enough to get a relatively pleasing sound (the Klipsch upgrade to References from Synergys helped also) but any tips on how to make it sound better are much appreciated. Thank you.

 

[bpape]

Boomy and echo'y isn't going to be fixed by EQ. The room needs to be treated. Most likely, the overabundance of bass reverberation is giving the impression of reduced highs. The Klipsch are anything but laid back in the top end - especially with them pointed right at you.

Leave the chair in the room. Try moving the seating to get things the best you can from a frequency response standpoint first (no EQ). Treatments are available for stand mounting or floorstanding that would require no mounting holes.

Blinds without curtains all behind the speakers isn't helping anything either as you're likely getting lumpy bottom end due to speaker/wall proximity.

Lastly, it's a square room. This means that all of the bass modal issues are going to pile right on top of each other. Get in the best place you can. Start with the seating about 6.5' back from the front wall to your ears. If you're against the wall, you're fighting a losing battle unless you heavily treat the wall behind you and even then, you'll have some issues.

Bryan

 

[Glenn Kuras]

room treatments that aren't DIY or put holes in the wall

You can always get bass traps on stands or (hope this is ok to say) go with something like our Tri Trap that just sits in the corner. No mounting needed.

Glenn

 

[ParadigmDawg]

The GIK traps on stands seem perfect for this application.

http://www.gikacoustics.com/products.html

 

[rufas2000]

I'm liking the tri trap myself astectically and for ease of use. How many do I need (I assume one for each speaker corner, not sure about back corners) and where do I put them (I assume again in the corners).

The GIK traps on stands were mentioned. Is there a reason why these are preferable to the tri traps?

Hopefully these will deal with the bass bulge. Now what can I do about the echo and making the handclap test less resonant?

I know the Klips rep for strong highs and I do get them (cymbal crashes for example) but they are somewhat inconsistent.

I appreciate all the help. This is a very challenging sound room but its the one I got. I think I have a solid foundation equipment wise (especially for rock & metal music) now if I can tame the room I think I'll be on my way to auditory bliss.

 

[bpape]

It's a trade off. Tri Traps will reach deeper. 244's on stands are less expensive. For the same money, you could cover double the space covered. These by themselves would help a lot toward taming the echo. It's not a complete solution but nothing a few 242's on stands wouldn't fix if placed appropriately.

Bryan

 

[rufas2000]

I'm going to start with two Tri Traps for their ease of use, the idea that they go deeper and I like the way they look as they fit in the corner. They'll go in the corners where the front speakers are.

Will I hear a difference or do I have to get all four corners done before I hear a difference? I realize four will be better than just two but I'm going slow on this. I'm thinking it'll be a notable improvement. One corner has a door so I may have to go with a pair of 244s for the back corners for my next purchase. Maybe a monster trap in the back with stand. I'll do this little by little until I'm happy or until I've maxed out on room treatment.

Thanks for the help.

 

[bpape]

1 pair of Tri Traps will help some. Just be realistic. You'll have covered approx 4% of the available corner space in the room and approx 3% absorbtion compared to the total wall/floor/ceiling surface.

You should notice some additional bass extension, better tightness and control in the bottom end, slightly better dialog clarity, etc.

Congrats on starting your journey to a properly treated space. You're starting with a tough room.

Bryan

 

[rufas2000]

Thanks for the encouragement.

BTW: My room is 11 feet wide by 11 feet long by 8 feet high. I counted the square foot tiles to come up with the 10 x 10 and just assumed the height. Thats a little better.

Should the next step be the back corners or perhaps some walls? I'm hoping not to spend a fortune but I also will spend a little more to get the correct and/or desired product as opposed to a compromise (hence the Tri Traps).

The help is much appreciated. My Tri Traps shipped out from Georgia and I live in Florida. Should be here real soon and I'm looking forward to it. I'll post what effects I notice although I'm not a sound expert.

 

[rufas2000]

Got the Tritraps, I notice a definite difference. I was thinking some 242s for the sides and the 244s for the back two corners where there is not enough room for the Tritraps (doors & closets)?

What is involved in attaching the 242s (or any of them) to the wood stand. I imagine it is just screwing the trap into the stand but I want to be sure I'll be able to do it before ordering.

 

[bpape]

It's not tough. It's just a couple of screws.

244's in the rear corners will give additional bottom end control. The 242's properly spaced will cover more area and deal with early relections. I'd use 2 on each side wall and 1 behind each front main speaker to help smooth response based on wall proximity. These will also help keep the surround information from coming off the front wall and messing up the front imagin.

They're just 2 very different sets of goals.

Bryan

 

[rufas2000]

Thanks again. I appreciate the help with my many questions.

Should the next priority be on the 244s or one set of 242s? IOW: where will I hear greater improvement? Or maybe I should just plunge in all at once but I don't want my credit to get too out of whack.

Since the 242s come in sets of three and I might not have room for 2 242s on
each side wall can the 242s act as bass traps. I know they won't be as good but will they be serviceable?

BTW: I have some CD & DVD box sets standing on my tritraps. They seem pretty safe up there, any reason why I shouldn't have them there?

 

[bpape]

They'll help some in the bottom end but won't go as deep as the 244's or the Tri Traps. Remember that you need to address absorbtion on the front wall too.

That's really your call which to do first. If you're going to use 242's on the rear wall instead of 244's, you'll want to do Tri Traps in the other corners to get the additional deep bass control.


Again, they're just different design goals both of which need to be addressed eventually.

Bryan

 

[rufas2000]

I'm thinking I'll get the 242s out of the way. By my count you suggest a total of 6. I'm thinking one behind each front speaker, one placed on the side of each speaker and one around the mid point of each side wall. Then I'll get the 244s for the back corners. That would pretty much cover your suggestions I'm thinking.

Would the later addition of a monster trap for the middle of the back wall be desirable? I see on the room sets that monster traps are placed there in a couple of configurations.

Anybody with any suggestions on decorating these things? They ain't bad looking but it would be nice if they could be enhanced cosmetically. Not at the cost of any sound improvement though.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

The Elites are very nice. For the rest of them just turn the lights down (lol)

 

[rufas2000]

The Elites are also very expensive. I was hoping for attaching posters to them but no biggie.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Dont attach posters to them. The material has to be loose woven and easy to breath through or you have lost the whole concept.

The Elites are also very expensive. I was hoping for attaching posters to them but no biggie.

 

[rufas2000]

Dont attach posters to them. The material has to be loose woven and easy to breath through or you have lost the whole concept.

And thats why I asked, thank you. Stuff on the plastic part of the tritraps is OK, right? Don't see why not but just thought I would ask.

 

[avaserfi]

And thats why I asked, thank you. Stuff on the plastic part of the tritraps is OK, right? Don't see why not but just thought I would ask.

The tritraps are meant to work differently than regular reflection panels. Putting things on top of them won't be a problem at all. The real problem is when you start putting reflective materials in front of panels designed to absorb higher frequencies.

BTW nice catch to Greg. Its amazing how much you learn when you start treating a room.

 

[Glenn Kuras]

I'm thinking I'll get the 242s out of the way. By my count you suggest a total of 6. I'm thinking one behind each front speaker, one placed on the side of each speaker and one around the mid point of each side wall. Then I'll get the 244s for the back corners. That would pretty much cover your suggestions I'm thinking.

Would the later addition of a monster trap for the middle of the back wall be desirable? I see on the room sets that monster traps are placed there in a couple of configurations.

Anybody with any suggestions on decorating these things? They ain't bad looking but it would be nice if they could be enhanced cosmetically. Not at the cost of any sound improvement though.

I think you are on the right track from what I can see. And yes adding the monster to the back wall will help out a lot.

As Greg pointed out (great advice GREG) you can not put posts on the fronts of the 242 panels. They are designed to pick up high end and the poster would reflect a lot of that. With the Tri Traps those have a hard top so putting a plant, picture or what ever under 75 pound is fine. For panels you could get some Guildford of Maine from us and use them as drapes in front of them.

The Elites are very nice.

And quickly becoming the number 1 seller may I add!

Glenn