Speaker Wire - to cut or not to cut in wall for applications ?

[timetohunt]

I am in the camp of not buying high end speaker wire unless you get it cheap. And understand that audible differences in speaker wire (unless you run 100 ft of 20 gauge or something), are not likely.

But what do you think about this. I ran a bunch of speaker wire above the drop ceiling and through walls. I also installed wall plates with speaker terminals throughout the room where needed. Most of these were 6 port plates and you can leave a port completely open here and there if you want (basically a hole in the wall plate without an insert).

I did get some higher end wire for my fronts that span a fairly good distance from each other and from where my audio cabinet sits (cabinet is not really near front speakers).

So, do you think it makes any difference to terminate the wires using the in wall speaker terminals or letting the wire run 'whole' without being cut through an open wall port?

Oh, and for that matter. What about terminating your wires with banana plugs? Same issue really.

 

[Johnd]

I like the latter. Fewer connections. Simpler. Cleaner.

 

[davidtwotrees]

The less connections and terminations the better.
And the feeling here is that bare wire makes the best connections.

 

[Halon451]

I agree that the fewer connections the better; however should you want to relocate equipment, or re-arrange the speakers, etc - having them terminated at the wall plates does add some increased flexibility. I have my rear surrounds ran through the wall and attic to behind my listening area. Both ends are terminated at wall plates, so if I want to one day swap things around, I can just unplug it from the wall on both ends and run it in reverse.

Just make sure that each connection is clean and tight. Try some regular rubbing alcohol and a small stiff bristle paintbrush (or acid brush if you have one) to clean the connections prior to terminating. I don't think it will matter much overall in terms of sound degradation, once all is said and done.

 

[Johnd]

I agree that the fewer connections the better; however should you want to relocate equipment, or re-arrange the speakers, etc - having them terminated at the wall plates does add some increased flexibility.

This problem can be avoided by leaving some slack on each line.

 

[bandphan]

This problem can be avoided by leaving some slack on each line.

very correct when you run, leave 3' loop on each end, it could save you...Also I run cat5e along with my video and speakers runs to help future proof, ie ir, hd video, audio, network ect...

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I would terminate the speaker wire at the wall plates. Leave some slack as said earlier in the wall, and tin the ends to the wall plates for a flawless connection. You should have zero loss in signal if done correctly. Finally, definitely termate all speaker wire with banana plugs. The screw or solder type at monoprice are perfect, and very affordable. You've gone this far with wall plates for a professional look, so I see no reason not doing it the way it was intended.

 

[Johnd]

I would terminate the speaker wire at the wall plates. Leave some slack as said earlier in the wall, and tin the ends to the wall plates for a flawless connection. You should have zero loss in signal if done correctly. Finally, definitely termate all speaker wire with banana plugs. The screw or solder type at monoprice are perfect, and very affordable. You've gone this far with wall plates for a professional look, so I see no reason not doing it the way it was intended.

I hear what you're saying Buckeyefan 1.

However, I don't know that it is all that professional of a look to have white or beige (the only connector color plates that I know of) over a simple color matched blank plate with the appropriate sized hole for the speaker wire.

I have walnut walls with brown plates, with the wire running up or down (to the speaker and from the receiver). All of my plates are dark brown, and they match the walls quite well. Were I really persnickety, I would use brown cable loops to encase my speaker wire for an unobtrusive look.

My point is: home theaters are generally dark colored, and to have light colored plates and shiny connectors protruding out at 90' is not aesthetic to me. Of course, if one has white or beige walls, the plate and connector won't stand out, and then what I'm alluding to is moot. But who aspires to that in a home theater? That is akin to all silver components, gleaming in all their glory with lights ablazin, and silver speaker surrounds and cabinets. Not my cup of tea in a ht. I know some do it, but it is contrary to the objective (dark and unobtrusive) of ht wall treatments, is it not?

 

[Polygon]

I hear what you're saying Buckeyefan 1.

However, I don't know that it is all that professional of a look to have white or beige (the only connector color plates that I know of) over a simple color matched blank plate with the appropriate sized hole for the speaker wire.

I guess that's subjective as I think that binding post wall plates look far better than a blank with a hole. I've done it both ways.

 

[timetohunt]

OK. So far I have 5 wall plates total in the house. Only one of the wall plates is completely exposed (not hidden by furniture), that being the one for my surrounds/3rd zone posts. I did let the speaker wire for my mains run all the way through a hole without an insert, but none of this is visible.

I like Buckeyefan's idea about 'tinning' the terminals. I am embarrassed by this, I was not entirely sure, but you do mean soldering, right? I have not soldered anything since I helped my dad do it some 30 years ago. I have an old time soldering gun and I think I also have one that is small with a point on it. Any tips, I guess the little one is for modern day electonic applications? I do think its what should be done with the wires that I do have terminated now that its been suggested.

I also like bandphan's idea about running cat 5 with all the speaker runs. I recently ran 5 cat5 lines for our home network, but it could never hurt to have more ready.

Now, about banana plugs. I ususally don't buy Monster Cables gear, but so far, I think that their banana plugs are the slickest looking and best I have worked with so far. These are the ones that come in 2 peices and screw on after you fan out the wire over the male inner connector. Should I solder this too and I was wondering if these are really OK for that.

 

[Johnd]

I like Buckeyefan's idea about 'tinning' the terminals. I am embarrassed by this, I was not entirely sure, but you do mean soldering, right?

Yes, tinning means soldering.

Not to belabor the point but...

Let me start by writing that good solid connections all but eliminate signal loss, degradation and interference. So if one were to make the best possible solder joints with quality connectors, the issue of degradation is nearly moot.

However, to be sure, wall plates are at a minimum three connections, not one. There is the solder joint at the back of the plate, the solder joint to the connector, and the mechanical connection of the plate to the connector, not to mention the joinery/quality of construction of the plate and connector itself. After being heavily involved in the trades for 20 years, imho, homeruns are always the best choice for any connections, as it minimizes potential interference and future failure.

Wall plates, while sometimes necessary or installed by the builder (or audioholic ) I think ought to be averred if convenient to do so. I think adding wall plates and connectors, if not absolutely necessary, is akin to adding three extension cords between your amplifier and outlet.

 

[Polygon]

Now, about banana plugs. I ususally don't buy Monster Cables gear, but so far, I think that their banana plugs are the slickest looking and best I have worked with so far. These are the ones that come in 2 peices and screw on after you fan out the wire over the male inner connector. Should I solder this too and I was wondering if these are really OK for that.

You don't need to buy them from Monster. Acoustic Research sells the best ones I've found for the price. They work the same way but you don't have to call Ditech to buy them. Also, there is no need to solder them. Soldering will ensure that you most likely won't have a direct connection of the wire on the connector and is prone to corrosion.

Acoustic Research Binding Post Connectors

 

[Johnd]

Soldering will ensure that you most likely won't have a direct connection of the wire on the connector and is prone to corrosion.

Is that more or less prone to corrosion than all the solder joints in one's receiver, speakers and components? My understanding is lead, whilst prone to surface corrosion, keeps it's conductivity for a long, long time. Not trying to be a smart*** Poygon...just educate myself.

 

[Polygon]

Is that more or less prone to corrosion than all the solder joints in one's receiver, speakers and components? My understanding is lead, whilst prone to surface corrosion, keeps it's conductivity for a long, long time. Not trying to be a smart*** Poygon...just educate myself.

Granted you're correct and you make a good point but IMO crimping is a better method. Why increase the amount of weak links? I suppose the difference is negligible. However, just screwing the ends of the binding posts together will be a lot easier and is a better way to do it IMO.

 

[timetohunt]

However, to be sure, wall plates are at a minimum three connections, not one. There is the solder joint at the back of the plate, the solder joint to the connector, and the mechanical connection of the plate to the connector, not to mention the joinery/quality of construction of the plate and connector itself.to adding three extension cords between your amplifier

Wait a minute. If I have a wall plate and the front of the plate has terminals that are connected to speaker wire with banana plugs, where else but the back where the wire meats the connector must be soldered? Your statement above started to fall apart a bit on me, and I was not understanding relative to the task of soldering.

Should I connect the wire to the rear terminal as normal (basically thread and screw), then melt solder all around that area?

 

[timetohunt]

You don't need to buy them from Monster. Acoustic Research sells the best ones I've found for the price. They work the same way but you don't have to call Ditech to buy them. Also, there is no need to solder them. Soldering will ensure that you most likely won't have a direct connection of the wire on the connector and is prone to corrosion.

Acoustic Research Binding Post Connectors

That would be a super price if I could find them in a store round here. With shipping they are about $4 less than monster, $13 less if off shelf. If I could find them local, at that price I would be tempted to replace all mine and sell my monster ones, I would have saved over $100. Those look good to. I used monster plugs on about 75% of the application. So I should bite the bullet and finish with them since $4 times what I need is not going to break me.

 

[Johnd]

Wait a minute. If I have a wall plate and the front of the plate has terminals that are connected to speaker wire with banana plugs, where else but the back where the wire meats the connector must be soldered? Your statement above started to fall apart a bit on me, and I was not understanding relative to the task of soldering.

Should I connect the wire to the rear terminal as normal (basically thread and screw), then melt solder all around that area?

I'd have to know of which plate you're referring. If the wire meats the connector with a "solderless" connection, then no soldering is required.

 

[Halon451]

This problem can be avoided by leaving some slack on each line.

Good point John - but to me it doesn't make sense to run a cable straight through a wall, coil a service loop and run it to the gear/speakers. If he had a nice plate termination at each location, he would have the ability to move things around and run exact lengths of speaker wire needed to reach the plates and be done with it.

Typically, with these kinds of scenarios, in order to alleviate having to cut new lengths of wire for such a case, I would coil the service loop where it comes out of the gear itself, and have a clean professional look outside of the rack leading to the wall termination. So if he moves his rack over a few feet, he can just unwind the coiled portion as needed, but not have to disturb the wall plate location.

Furthermore, I hate visible wire - if it were my own project I would lead the wire coming out of the plates into some wiremold or panduit and run it to the gear and/or speakers.

You still make a great point though and I'm glad you addresssed it. I learned on a couple of my major A/V projects that it is always better to pull more than what you need when it comes to cable (when running through ceilings/conduit/etc). I ran short on a pull one time wiring an auditorium and had to correct the issue after they removed the scaffolding. Yeah, balancing on I-beams 100 feet off the floor trying to re-pull wires was enough to teach me the concept.

 

[Johnd]

Good point John - but to me it doesn't make sense to run a cable straight through a wall, coil a service loop and run it to the gear/speakers. If he had a nice plate termination at each location, he would have the ability to move things around and run exact lengths of speaker wire needed to reach the plates and be done with it.

Typically, with these kinds of scenarios, in order to alleviate having to cut new lengths of wire for such a case, I would coil the service loop where it comes out of the gear itself, and have a clean professional look outside of the rack leading to the wall termination. So if he moves his rack over a few feet, he can just unwind the coiled portion as needed, but not have to disturb the wall plate location.

Furthermore, I hate visible wire - if it were my own project I would lead the wire coming out of the plates into some wiremold or panduit and run it to the gear and/or speakers.

You still make a great point though and I'm glad you addresssed it. I learned on a couple of my major A/V projects that it is always better to pull more than what you need when it comes to cable (when running through ceilings/conduit/etc). I ran short on a pull one time wiring an auditorium and had to correct the issue after they removed the scaffolding. Yeah, balancing on I-beams 100 feet off the floor trying to re-pull wires was enough to teach me the concept.

Yes. Thanks for your pov Halon...planning/deliberateness is good. And others have added some useful insight as well.

My point is, in a prewired ht, if aesthetics is such a huge issue, the wallplates would be obscure by design. You would'nt even see them for the surrounds...as they would be placed directly behind the speakers. And same with the fronts, but as the fronts are generally further from the walls, you may see the plate (at the lp)...you may not.

I just don't think a color matched (dark brown in my case) wall plate with a 3/8" hole with speaker wire running out of it is unaesthetic. Purely subjective, perhaps. Some here would apparently rather see the glitter of connectors. Me? I would rather look at the front of my 5803 than its' back during watching/listening.

 

[bandphan]

http://www.nilesaudio.com/product_selection.php?catcdID=14