Just got ISF calibration, not super-duper impressed

[darien87]

I had a local guy come out yesterday to do an ISF calibration of my 52" Samsung LCD. He spent about 4-1/2 hours doing the calibration along with a complimentary HT audio optimization. Well the picture does look good and really natural, but I'm not floored by the difference between what he did and the settings I found to use on the AVS website. In fact, one thing that bugs me as that the blacks are so dark now. Now when there is something dark on the screen, it just looks like a blob of ink.

He was able to get the color curve of the TV to pretty much be a straight line at 6,500 kelvin, so that made me happy. But I just don't like how dark scenes look. I guess I'm just used to an incorrect picture, but isn't shadow detail important? I told him I wasn't that happy with it, and he told me to give it a month to get used to it.

Well today, I turned the brightness up from 34 to 40. It helped a little, but I don't want to stray too far away from what is "correct".

I'll give it some time and see how I feel.

 

[Thunder18]

You mentioned that you did like the fact that the picture looks more natural now. You might write down all the settings and go from there. I'm assuming he spent a decent amount of time tweaking settings in the service menu as well. Without being in the industry, that's something you probably would not have been able to do accurately. I think what you have to understand is that the calibrators job is to make the picture accurate so you see what the program creator's intend for you to see. Now if you don't like it you are free to change it. However, I do think you should try it out a bit longer too and see if you get used to it. You may actually enjoy it. From what I understand, you're not really supposed to see the material in the blacker-than-black part of the video signal. The fact that you can see it just means that you display device is capable of showing it, but when using DVE, they tell you to go to where you can't see the blacker-than-black signal and move the contrast up one point.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... From what I understand, you're not really supposed to see the material in the blacker-than-black part of the video signal. .

Yep, that is correct. There are two bands for buffer, at the black end from 0 IRE to 7.5 and at the white end, for clipping, etc.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I had a local guy come out yesterday to do an ISF calibration of my 52" Samsung LCD. He spent about 4-1/2 hours doing the calibration along with a complimentary HT audio optimization. Well the picture does look good and really natural, but I'm not floored by the difference between what he did and the settings I found to use on the AVS website. In fact, one thing that bugs me as that the blacks are so dark now. Now when there is something dark on the screen, it just looks like a blob of ink.

He was able to get the color curve of the TV to pretty much be a straight line at 6,500 kelvin, so that made me happy. But I just don't like how dark scenes look. I guess I'm just used to an incorrect picture, but isn't shadow detail important? I told him I wasn't that happy with it, and he told me to give it a month to get used to it.

Well today, I turned the brightness up from 34 to 40. It helped a little, but I don't want to stray too far away from what is "correct".

I'll give it some time and see how I feel.

That is the problem with ISF calibration People are just not used to seeing a TV properly calibrated to industry specs. Also, remember, at these calibration points, TV is not supposed to be watched in daylight conditions, no matter what 'they' say

6500K is a far cry from where most come out from the factory at max, some at 9000K or more. Colors everywhere but where it is supposed to be.
In many cases, lumens also drop especially on projectors.
So, try to adjust your viewing habits, play some good DVDs in a darkened condition and see what you thing of it all.

 

[darien87]

I don't deny that the TV looks great. But it looked pretty damn good before the calibration.

Specifically there were 3 scenes we watched that bothered me:

1. Transformers HD-DVD - The scene where the soldiers are waking in the desert, just before Scorpinok attacks them. The sand is a nice bright yellowish color, but the soldiers just look like black blobs walking on the sand.

2. Star Wars Ep 2 - The scene where Palpatine is talking to Mace and Yoda about not letting the separatists destroy the Federation. Palpatines head just kinda seems to float on top of a big black blob that is his robe.

3. Live Free or Die Hard - The scene where McClane goes to pick up the hacker kid. All you really see is the kid's face as he is working on the computer. The same thing with the terrorists in the van outside. All you really see is their faces. The backgrounds just look black.

All 3 of these scenes were watched with the lights off in the room. I realize that film-makers often use filters to increase contrast and change the color balance of their movies, but are they really intending for so much of the picture to just be black? Is this what movies and TV are really supposed to look like? If so, I'm not sure I like it.

I saw all 3 of these movies in the theater, but I can't remember if they looked this dark in the black areas.

 

[annunaki]

As I have mentioned in the past, ISF calibrations may or may not be worth the $ depending upon how accurate the set is from the factory. It depends upon what the viewer expects from the calibration.

What I would do is mark down all of the settings that the ISF tech made and save the sheet for safe keeping. If you feel it is too dark, bump the brightness up a couple notches.

 

[mtrycrafts]

And, on top of annunaki's suggestion, pop in a test dvd and see what the black level bars are at.

did he give you a chart showing the TV adjustments beforehand on the color table and afterwards? Same for the gray-scale temps, etc?
I may need to check that Transformer to see how yellow the sand is instead of sand color It sounds like he may have turned it down too much though.

 

[darien87]

I got 2 new BD's last night, Shoot 'em up and POTC: At World's End. Both movies I saw in the theater.

Both movies looked very good, but still seemed a little dark. I tried turning up the brightness while watching Shoot 'em up, and the darks still remained almost totally black. So I guess this is the way the movie is supposed to look, very dark and "contrasty". I turned up the brightness a little more with POTC and was able to get more shadow detail to show.

The guy that did the calibration for me told me to try turning the Energy Saving feature off. I think it is currently set to "Low" on my TV. So I'll try turning it off and see if that helps.

One thing to note however; I think Shoot 'em up looked better on my TV than it did in the theater. I remember the movie looking very grainy, like 300, in the theater. There's hardly a hint of grain on the BD. Maybe they changed it when they mastered the BD, but I like it better. The colors also seem much more vivid and vibrant than I remember from the theater.

 

[j_garcia]

Sounds like you may want to turn the contrast up a bit rather than just the brightness, and the two controls are completely interactive with one another. Definitely write down those settings.

 

[darien87]

Sounds like you may want to turn the contrast up a bit rather than just the brightness, and the two controls are completely interactive with one another. Definitely write down those settings.

You'll have to come over and check it out and tell me what you think.

 

[annunaki]

Actually leave your settings where they are supposed to be and turn the energy saving mode off. This should have a dramatic effect on the overall light output of the set. Also, What is the backlight setting at???

 

[darien87]

Actually leave your settings where they are supposed to be and turn the energy saving mode off. This should have a dramatic effect on the overall light output of the set. Also, What is the backlight setting at???

I don't remember what the backlight is set at. Off the top of my head, I think 5. I took pictures of the setting with my digital camera, so it will be no trouble for me to put it back to where it was after the calibration. So far, the only things I changed, were to up the Gamma to + 3, and increase brightness from 34 to 40.

 

[annunaki]

I don't remember what the backlight is set at. Off the top of my head, I think 5. I took pictures of the setting with my digital camera, so it will be no trouble for me to put it back to where it was after the calibration. So far, the only things I changed, were to up the Gamma to + 3, and increase brightness from 34 to 40.

Put those back to where they were after the calibration. Turn the energy saving mode off and see if it is better. If not, then up the back light to 7 with the energy saving mode still off. See what that does for you.

 

[Rowdy S13]

This is a interesting thread. I noticed that when I adjusted my tv the first time that it seemed dark. I went with basic settings (service menu, and user menu) that came from a ISF tech. It was HUGE improvement, but I thought it was to dark at first too. I left it like that, and now I love it. I notice that other TV's seems WAY bright, and mostly washed out in comparison. It did take a lil getting used to though. I say listen to what people have said about the power savings and let it soak in for a while.

Sean

 

[annunaki]

I cannot stand how bright TV's are on the show room floor and when they are not calibrated. It seriously hurts my eyes in a dimly lit room. When I got my Sony 34" XBR, it did not come with a remote (I got it for free). I could not adjust it out of "torch mode". I could barely watch it as it was so bright. I started getting headaches because of the brightness. Now that it is calibrated it looks fantastic, especially with HD-DVD's.

Give your eyes some time to adjust to a properly calibrated televison. Do what I suggested above, and you should be very happy with it in about a week or so once your eyes adjust to normal light output.

 

[darien87]

Well, unfortunately, the backlight was already set to 9.

But the input that I have my cable box on, had Energy Saving to Medium. So I turned that off and it totally fixed the darkness problem. I was able to put Gamma back to 0 and brightness back to 34.

Unfortunately the input with my PS 3 and HD-DVD already had Energy Saving off. It's just too dark. While watching POTC:AWE last night, when I turned the Gamma and brightness down, people's faces would almost completely disappear if there was any type of shadow. Sorry, but I just can't stand it that dark. I might try putting it back, but I just don't think I can live with the picture that dark. So for now, on that input, I have the Gamma at +3 and Brightness at 40.

 

[j_garcia]

Calibration is about setting it the way it is supposed to be, but personal preference may not end up being at the ideal setting. Just like a sub, calibrated reference is fine at reference, but for normal listening it may not be quite what one is after so some tweaking is certainly not out of the question for any gear.

 

[annunaki]

Well, unfortunately, the backlight was already set to 9.

But the input that I have my cable box on, had Energy Saving to Medium. So I turned that off and it totally fixed the darkness problem. I was able to put Gamma back to 0 and brightness back to 34.

Unfortunately the input with my PS 3 and HD-DVD already had Energy Saving off. It's just too dark. While watching POTC:AWE last night, when I turned the Gamma and brightness down, people's faces would almost completely disappear if there was any type of shadow. Sorry, but I just can't stand it that dark. I might try putting it back, but I just don't think I can live with the picture that dark. So for now, on that input, I have the Gamma at +3 and Brightness at 40.

J_garcia is correct. some inputs will probably have to be adjusted to suit personal preference. You will still be much within accepted tolorances by sound of it.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Well, unfortunately, the backlight was already set to 9.

But the input that I have my cable box on, had Energy Saving to Medium. So I turned that off and it totally fixed the darkness problem. I was able to put Gamma back to 0 and brightness back to 34.

Unfortunately the input with my PS 3 and HD-DVD already had Energy Saving off. It's just too dark. While watching POTC:AWE last night, when I turned the Gamma and brightness down, people's faces would almost completely disappear if there was any type of shadow. Sorry, but I just can't stand it that dark. I might try putting it back, but I just don't think I can live with the picture that dark. So for now, on that input, I have the Gamma at +3 and Brightness at 40.

When the ISF person was out, do you remember anything about the backlight being set and then calibrated? You should not have faces turn dark in a picture out in daylight or, for that matter inside or even at night with light on it. Something is just not right someplace.

 

[darien87]

Well, there's some light at the end of the tunnel.

Last night I put the settings back to the calibration, and checked out Underworld, Fifth Element, and Ratatouille, all on BD. And all looked a little dark, but not near as objectionable as Transformers and the others I looked at during the calibration. I kept thinking back on how incredibly dark POTC:AWE looked, but I guess the simple fact that these 3 other movies looked fine to me, means that POTC:AWE is just an incredibly dark movie. My wife commented that she remembered the movie being hella dark when we saw it in the theater. She said, "That's why I fell asleep."

So I've got the settings back to the calibration for now, and we'll see how it goes. While watching Underworld, some scenes did seem a tad dark, but I swore I was seeing detail I hadn't seen before. But that could just be because I'm watching on an LCD now instead of a CRT RP.

But why the hell would the director, (POTC) want to make his movie so incredibly dark that you can't see anything?!?!? It doesn't make sense.