Help layout my less than optimal room

[SteveIL]

Need some advice. I'm setting up a HT for the first time (7.1), and my room is definitely less than optimal. Pic below is what I'm thinking of doing.

(Since I'm new here, the forum won't let me post an image or link, so here's a 'link' to my picture. Perhaps if someone could be so kind as to insert the image in their reply??)....

i14.tinypic.com/7wj20eg.jpg

The dimensions of the room, the fireplace, the sliding glass doors, the garage door, and the "half-wall" separating the family room from the kitchen are all obstacles to creating a great HT environment.

My plan is to put the TV (Samsung 46") in the corner, to the right of the fireplace, at a bit of an angle towards the couch. It has to be at an angle anyway since there's just 3' on either side of the fireplace.

Receiver is a Denon AVR-2308CI, if that matters.

I haven't found the ideal stand to put the TV and components on/in yet, but I'll be looking for something that allows me to put the center speaker (Axiom VP150) just below the TV.

Because of the tight space for the TV, options are limited for front speaker palcement. Shown is what I have in mind, with the speakers (Axiom M22's)living just below the right and left edges of the TV. Would it be better to put the left front to the left of the fireplace to get more spacing??

Subwoofer (Axiom EP350) might possibly go behind the TV, but not sure if the TV and stuff will be too much of a blockage (?), so I've been thinking it could go the left of the fireplace as shown. One better than the other?

Because the couch is against two walls, the surrounds (Axiom QS8's) have me concerned. The side right will be pretty much directly above the right end of the couch, and the side left will be 3-4' from the couch. What I'm showing, in purple, assumes the side R/L wall-mounted using Axiom's wall mounts that allow me to angle/tilt them. Because the couch is against the right wall, I'm thinking they'll need to go quite high on the walls, up near the ceiling (~8'), just to get some distance to the listener.

I am thinking I will mount the rear speakers on the ~9' ceiling using Axiom's ceiling mounts a bit behind the couch (so they'll technically be in the kitch eating area), angled down toward the couch.

What do you think? Is this going to work? Is there a better way? Is 7.1 even worth it for this layout, or should I just ditch the rears and stick with 5.1?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!!!

-Steve

 

[SteveIL]

Oh, I should add that the TV can't go above the fireplace because that would put it uncomfortably too high.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Ouch, that is a difficult room not to mention the fact that you need about 120'' screen from that viewing distance. Can you mount the plasma across from the slide door and put the couch a few feet in front of the door?

 

[the grunt]

Here’s your picture:

http://i14.tinypic.com/7wj20eg.jpg

You should follow Greg Gable’s suggestion if at all possible. I think it’s the best single improvement you could make to your HT experience in that room Both in picture and sound quality and will make for a much more immersive (movie theater like) experience. Seriously it will make a night and day difference from what the diagram presently shows.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Oh, I should add that the TV can't go above the fireplace because that would put it uncomfortably too high.

Finally, someone who recognizes this right off the bat

You'd be surprised how many want it there.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Here’s your picture:

http://i14.tinypic.com/7wj20eg.jpg

You should follow Greg Gable’s suggestion if at all possible. I think it’s the best single improvement you could make to your HT experience in that room Both in picture and sound quality and will make for a much more immersive (movie theater like) experience. Seriously it will make a night and day difference from what the diagram presently shows.

Thanks for the direct link

 

[mtrycrafts]

A double OUCH

That is really bad. It certainly will not support a 7.1, unfortunately, no matter how you slice it.
Placing the Tv on the long wall, couch in front of the sliding glass will not be tolerated by the spouse as you'd be on top of the TV, practically and the traffic pattern it creates not to mention the view to the outside, I bet.

If you have a swiveling couch, locate the TV by the 4ft wall? Then you can turn the couch for the fireplace But that will not fly either.

You are in a very tough room with that fireplace. You could always take it out and then you have a better room and doable.

 

[SteveIL]

Thanks for the comments, guys...or should I say, thanks for the sympathy

I don't think it will fly to move the couch in front of the sliding glass door, but thanks for the suggestion. Don't see the wife going for that. And, God forbid we ever watch something that's not HD, I think this will put me way too close to the TV, no?

Swiveling couch, eh? ;-)

I might have another way I could lay it out. I'll do a couple more reply posts to push me past the silly 5 post requirement for posting links/pics (what is the deal with that anyway?), to see what you think of this.

Thanks!

-Steve

 

[SteveIL]

Nothing to see here...move along...

 

[SteveIL]

Okay, what do you think of this layout? This isn't totally to scale, and I'm not certain this will really work out, but it's the only other thought I've had to improve things. This is a bit more painful for me as it means re-routing all the satellite cables. And, the chair is no longer useful for TV viewing, just for socializing.

Or, I could put the couch in this spot, but angled a bit, and put the TV back in the right corner like the original layout.

Surrounds would still need to go high on the walls, or hang from the ceiling. If I do that, do I want to angle them to point directly at the primary viewing/listening location, or what?

I have my doubts my wife will like this (I'm not so hip on it myself). To be honest, this room is really more about basic TV watching, as well as a place for my 3 year old to play, so to sacrifice this much space will not be readily accepted, and might not be the best idea for the family as a whole. I want a layout that gives us a good movie viewing experience, but I'm okay with it being less than ideal. I know you guys and this forum are all about creating the optimum theater experience, and I totally get that and appreciate your insight accordingly. But for me...I might end up just going with the original layout and I suspect I'll be happy with it (still a lot better than what I have now). If I do that, am I just wasting my money and time trying to make it a 7.1 setup...should I just forget about the back speakers?

For the front speakers, how far apart do they need to be? If the TV is stuck in a corner, with one front speaker in the same corner, should I put the other front in the opposite corner of the room, or keep it close to the TV? Or, do both options equally suck?

Thanks much for your thoughts and suggestions!

-Steve

 

[the grunt]

If you have carpet in your room you might try something like this which is somewhat in line with the swiveling couch suggestion.

http://www.redhotcarpetcleaning.com/en-us/ez-moves-permanent-slides.html

You could go with your TV in one of the corners as your diagrams show and the couch could be up against the wall like in your first picture for normal TV and playroom use. Then for movies you could slide the couch out to a closer position like in your second picture.

There are at least two reasons for wanting to have the couch more like your second drawing distance and symmetry.

As you get further away from the TV you loose the picture quality advantage of having using HD resolutions like 720 and 1080. Check out this chart:

http://www.carltonbale.com/wp-content/uploads/resolution_chart.png

Also with the distance you have in the first picture there will be little stereo separation between your L/H and R/H speakers causing you to loose the left to right panning mixed into 5.1 and 7.1 soundtracks. At that distance the only advantages of have 3 speakers up front rather than just one are a little more loudness and the ability to control the volume on the center channel separately from the mains which is useful with some soundtracks where the center channel is mixed in to low. Also the M22s you plan on are great speakers but at that’s a long distance for them to cover and still have good volume.

Also being able to move the couch away from the wall for movies will allow your surround speakers to project a much better sounding rear soundstage. Even a few feet should give you major improvement.

The other advantage being able to move the couch out like in your second picture is that it allows for a more symmetrical arrangement of your speakers creating a better overall surround sound experience.

Surrounds would still need to go high on the walls, or hang from the ceiling. If I do that, do I want to angle them to point directly at the primary viewing/listening location, or what?

If you can you should try to angle them so the flat face between the two tweeters is aimed at the listening position. However, I don’t think it’s that critical given all the other issues the room presents.

If I do that, am I just wasting my money and time trying to make it a 7.1 setup...should I just forget about the back speakers?

If you can’t move your couch out then I think 7.1 is a waste of money. Even if you can move your couch out I think 5.1 with the QS8s will be more than good enough. They are really great surround speakers. You can always add more as rears later if you think something is lacking.

If the TV is stuck in a corner, with one front speaker in the same corner, should I put the other front in the opposite corner of the room, or keep it close to the TV?

I wouldn’t suggest that. Wouldn’t hurt to try it out but generally you want to position the speakers as symmetrically as possible given your room layout. I think one speaker that far out to the side wouldn’t work very well so probably better to keep them on either side of the TV.

Just a couple other ideas.

I would use another M22 rather than the VP150 for your center channel. The only reason I would recommend a VP150 over the M22 as a center is if you just can’t fit an M22 in the center. The M22 in my opinion sounds better and costs less.

I wouldn’t put the sub behind the TV unless you have to.

Or, I could put the couch in this spot, but angled a bit, and put the TV back in the right corner like the original layout.

Sounds like the best compromise to me.

Good luck and if you can post some pictures once you get thing set up.

Dean

 

[mtrycrafts]

Okay, what do you think of this layout? This isn't totally to scale, and I'm not certain this will really work out, but it's the only other thought I've had to improve things. This is a bit more painful for me as it means re-routing all the satellite cables. And, the chair is no longer useful for TV viewing, just for socializing.
Or, I could put the couch in this spot, but angled a bit, and put the TV back in the right corner like the original layout.
Surrounds would still need to go high on the walls, or hang from the ceiling. If I do that, do I want to angle them to point directly at the primary viewing/listening location, or what?

I have my doubts my wife will like this (I'm not so hip on it myself). To be honest, this room is really more about basic TV watching, as well as a place for my 3 year old to play, so to sacrifice this much space will not be readily accepted, and might not be the best idea for the family as a whole. I want a layout that gives us a good movie viewing experience, but I'm okay with it being less than ideal. I know you guys and this forum are all about creating the optimum theater experience, and I totally get that and appreciate your insight accordingly. But for me...I might end up just going with the original layout and I suspect I'll be happy with it (still a lot better than what I have now). If I do that, am I just wasting my money and time trying to make it a 7.1 setup...should I just forget about the back speakers?

For the front speakers, how far apart do they need to be? If the TV is stuck in a corner, with one front speaker in the same corner, should I put the other front in the opposite corner of the room, or keep it close to the TV? Or, do both options equally suck?

Thanks much for your thoughts and suggestions!

-Steve

While the second is a bit better, it is still an OUCH
As you indicated, this will take away from the room for family and small child.
And, you really don't have the room on the side of the fireplace, left or right, for a TV and speakers.

How much will you use the fire place? Maybe you can place the TV in front of it, speakers on the side of the TV properly and the couch in the middle. No 7.1, just 5.1.
Then, move the TV in the winter or very cold days for the fireplace use. Fireplaces sure mess up a room for audio.

 

[SteveIL]

Thanks a lot for all the great feedback and suggestions, guys. I think I'm going to put some more thought into variations on that second layout. I might be able to angle the couch and fit the TV at a better angle between the corner of the fireplace and the sliding glass door. I'll play around with that idea a bit and see where that leaves me. My wife didn't immediately shoot down the idea, so that's a start. Don't think I'll get away with putting the TV in front of the fireplace, though.

The stupid thing is, we bought this house 15 years ago while it was still under construction, and the builder did not have a fireplace in the room. I insisted he add it. Wish I had that to do over again

-Steve

 

[SteveIL]

Okay, I think I've got a substantially better layout idea. Turns out my wife was fine with the idea of replacing some furniture anyway, and she gave a thumbs up to a nice curved leather sectional in the spot shown. Now, just need to order the couch and TV stand, and mount the surrounds on the walls where shown and I think I'll be rockin'. Ideally it would probably be good to get the surrounds a little farther behind the center viewing spot, but I think this is as good as I'm going to get in this room.

Whatch think?

-Steve

 

[SteveIL]

What do you think of adding one back speaker for a 6.1 setup? Look like it would be about 2.5 feet behind the center listening spot. The surrounds are Axiom Audio QS8's.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Much better. Try the 6th ch. back there. Warp did it and said it sounds awesome.

 

[jagxtype]

Thats some good thinking there. Might take a little time to get the channel levels straightened out but i think it would work. Nice!

 

[the grunt]

Very nice looking layout. Using 3 QS8s the way you have shown should work great.

 

[SteveIL]

Thanks for all the help on this, guys. You helped put me in a much better place. Getting excited to get all of it finally set up and running. I'm hoping the auto setup feature on the Denon 2308 works as advertised since I'd be lost trying to get everything balanced manually.

I'll post some pics once everything's done. Waiting on the new couch, speaker stands and TV stand....geez, the dollars keep racking up on this little project. My wife doesn't get it.

-Steve

 

[mtrycrafts]

... My wife doesn't get it.

-Steve

Perhaps when you show off the finished theater, she will get it