RIAA Sues Man for Copying Legal CDs to His PC? Nope.

jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
It seems that Marc Fisher just ran with this one sentence from the brief, (page 15, line 16-18):



Now, is this statement to be understood as general as it sounds? That anyone who rips tracks and stores them in ANY shared folder (I know for my 2 PC's I have a "shared folder") it is illegal? Or is this only referring to a folder "shared" within the context of some P2P network software?

Clarification seems to be needed on this point. If it is as general as it sounds, does Mr. Fisher have a point here?
All this is an example of is how messed up the media is. The entire context of the brief is the P2P network KaZaA. The Washington Post piece was simply ran via the 'sound byte' mentality.

The other depressing thing: The average person on the street swallows what ever half truths that media feels like throwing out there.
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
It seems that Marc Fisher just ran with this one sentence from the brief, (page 15, line 16-18):



Now, is this statement to be understood as general as it sounds? That anyone who rips tracks and stores them in ANY shared folder (I know for my 2 PC's I have a "shared folder") it is illegal? Or is this only referring to a folder "shared" within the context of some P2P network software?

Clarification seems to be needed on this point. If it is as general as it sounds, does Mr. Fisher have a point here?
I get your gist mikeyj92.

The problem with running with one sentence from anything, let alone a legal brief, is simply it cannot be done within its' context. I am quite familiar with this case, and its' briefs. Running with one sentence, whilst remaining true if correctly quoted, is but one part of an entire thought or process. Taking one sentence out of a 21 page brief is akin to taking one hair off a head (fully endowed) and calling it complete.

I cannot read Mr. Fisher's story without being misled. Hell, even Clint was misled. The unfortunate part of this scenario is that unless an untrue statement in the story can be fingered, he has technichally not printed an untruth. The entire premise of his story is incorrect: that copying a copyrighted file for purely personal use (no others have access) is illegal. This is is simply not the case. So I have started from there. As far as I know, Mr. Fisher has not misquoted anyone, nor has he printed any untruths.

But the story got it all wrong, and Mr. Fisher has commenced from an untrue premise. This is a problem in free press: one really needs to sift and winnow, and read and read further to get the whole story, lest you be ill-informed.

As already stated, I will complain directly to the editor if Mr. Fisher does not amend his story. I will not let him cower behind the veil of "point to the untruth(s) in what I've printed?".
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
All this is an example of is how messed up the media is. The entire context of the brief is the P2P network KaZaA. The Washington Post piece was simply ran via the 'sound byte' mentality.

Yes.

The other depressing thing: The average person on the street swallows what ever half truths that media feels like throwing out there.
And they are the ill-formed, at their own hand, and their own blight.
 
birdonthebeach

birdonthebeach

Full Audioholic
And it gets worse. I am hearing this story EVERYWHERE! Yesterday morning on Fox SPORTS Radio morning drive show, they talked about it. And they were parroting the "untruth." They talked about "now the recording industry is saying it's illegal to copy cd's to your hard drive. Great! So now they want to make iPods useless...." and on and on. Geez. I am screaming at the radio - "that's wrong! That's not what the lawsuit says!!!"

oh the humanity!!!!!
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
And it gets worse. I am hearing this story EVERYWHERE! Yesterday morning on Fox SPORTS Radio morning drive show, they talked about it. And they were parroting the "untruth." They talked about "now the recording industry is saying it's illegal to copy cd's to your hard drive. Great! So now they want to make iPods useless...." and on and on. Geez. I am screaming at the radio - "that's wrong! That's not what the lawsuit says!!!"

oh the humanity!!!!!
Yes. Thanks for understanding birdonthebeach.

My issue is that I understand much misinformation abounds...particularly on the internet. But this was printed in the Post...The Washington Post! I mean, if they write it, it must be accurate, right? It's the Post for crying out loud. They've got resources.

As if that isn't enough, today columnist Deborah Howell has quoted Mr. Fisher in her column entitled "Facing Up to The Feedback":
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/04/AR2008010402937.html?sub=new
Mr. Fisher is quoted/mentioned in the second and third last paragraphs of page 1.

Just for the record, I was nothing but respectful and polite towards Mr. Fisher in my disagreement with him (which is not quite over, btw), so this column has nothing to do with my correspondence...at least I don't think it does. :p:rolleyes: It is just a little curious that this story was written a few days after I expressed the inaccuracies in Mr. Fisher's column...and that he is quoted in today's column. I am a conspiracy theorist for the record (just for those who did not know). :p

If made, I will post any corrections on his December 30th story.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
Ahh Clint. I substantially agree with you on the circus atmosphere about this debacle. However, once again, the liberal media (I know, I hate that term, but it is entrirely apropos here, and I am referring to all media that I've read concerning this issue), has only reported some of the facts. In fact, I am astounded that in my searches over this case, I have yet to find one media source that has correctly reported this fact.
The understatement of the year.:)
It's as if we live in 'The Russia' of years ago; considering the amount of disinformation we receive on a daily basis.
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
Free speech is a double edged sword. The bottom line is if you're not stealing you've got nothing to lose sleep over.
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
Well. Mr. Fisher and I continue our correspondence about the inaccuracies of his December 30th story, and his defense of them. This has been going on for a week now. Here is an excerpt from my latest email for those that are interested:




Dear Mr. Fisher:

Thank you for your reply.

I understand that you did not write "the Howell case was based on a mere transfer of legally obtained music from a CD to a computer." But that was the gist, that was the focus of the story, was it not? After all, your title reads "Download Uproar: Record Industry Goes After Personal Use". Come on. Anyone that reads that story understands the title and the gist of the story.

In your last email you have written to me:
"What was news in this case was the novel statement by the industry lawyer on page 15 of the supplemental brief, at the top of the page, saying that the mere possession of a copied piece of music was "unauthorized.""

The top of page 15 of the supplemental brief, in fact, all of page 15 of the supplemental brief, is about dissemination, not personal storage. The header for that page, or, more accurately, the point the Court wants the plaintiff to address, reads:
"C. Defendant possessed unauthorized copies of Plaintiff’s copyrighted sound recordings on his computer and actually disseminated such unauthorized copies over the KaZaA peer-to-peer network."

Thus, anything under that header is necessarily about dissemination...that is what the court asked for. To take any sentence or part of a sentence out of that paragraph without addressing dissemination is out of context, and misleading.

I do not understand how you can keep your position after I've brought to your attention the inaccurate title:
"Download Uproar: Record Industry Goes After Personal Use"
and the inaccurate sentence:
"In legal documents in its federal case against Jeffrey Howell, a Scottsdale, Ariz., man who kept a collection of about 2,000 music recordings on his personal computer, the industry maintains that it is illegal for someone who has legally purchased a CD to transfer that music into his computer."
And now your explanation is inaccurate: that page 15 of the brief is somehow not about dissemination.
...





Mr. Fisher's position is untenable, and futile (I always win :)). If he does not issue a correction by week's end, I will contact the editor. The title is misleading, the quotes are taken out of context, and the entire gist of the story is inaccurate. I am tiring of arguing the obvious. Either he folds, or I will make him fold. Blatant untruths, misquotes (out-of-context) and misleading stories cannot go unchecked when found.
 
birdonthebeach

birdonthebeach

Full Audioholic
Mr. Fisher's position is untenable, and futile (I always win :))). If he does not issue a correction by week's end, I will contact the editor. The title is misleading, the quotes are taken out of context, and the entire gist of the story is inaccurate. I am tiring of arguing the obvious. Either he folds, or I will make him fold. Blatant untruths, misquotes (out-of-context) and misleading stories cannot go unchecked when found.
Nice work, Johnd. But you have much more faith (not to mention respect) than I do for the Washington !#*%... I doubt very seriously they give a flying hoot about this. I long ago abandoned newspapers, save for the Wall Street Journal, precisely because of the type of reporting you are exposing here.

Keep us posted. I greatly appreciate your efforts!!!
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
FYI, I also sent Mr. Fisher an email about the 12/30/07 article. I went through the legal brief. Kazaa is in the brief 54 times. Thats 2.57 times PER page.

Unbelievable.

I despise RIAA/MPAA/ASCAP. Yes a lawyer was on the stand and said that she believes if you rip a song from a cd to another device it was a nice way of saying you 'stole' one song. I know this is how they think. They would love to be able to go into a library and permanently check out all the CD's. But it doesn't stop me from coming to their defense on something so wrong.

If anything comes out of this, maybe some politician will now come the see the light and work for the average joe. Maybe repealing the section of the DMCA that makes it illegal to strip DVD's of the encryption that denies the fair use of making a backup copy.
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
FYI, I also sent Mr. Fisher an email about the 12/30/07 article. I went through the legal brief. Kazaa is in the brief 54 times. Thats 2.57 times PER page.

Unbelievable.

I despise RIAA/MPAA/ASCAP. Yes a lawyer was on the stand and said that she believes if you rip a song from a cd to another device it was a nice way of saying you 'stole' one song. I know this is how they think. They would love to be able to go into a library and permanently check out all the CD's. But it doesn't stop me from coming to their defense on something so wrong.

If anything comes out of this, maybe some politician will now come the see the light and work for the average joe. Maybe repealing the section of the DMCA that makes it illegal to strip DVD's of the encryption that denies the fair use of making a backup copy.

Ahhh. You are one of the other two jinjuku. Mr. Fisher has informed me that only two other people complained about the inaccuracies of his story. I guess that means, in his world, by extension, every one else got it right. Or did they? As he is the story teller and purveyor of information, why would he receive any negative feedback, unless they did research as we here at Audioholics have done?

And then there was only one. One other person that complained of the untruthfulness of his story. What are the chances it was someone here at Audioholics? :)
 
masak_aer

masak_aer

Senior Audioholic
And then there was only one. One other person that complained of the untruthfulness of his story. What are the chances it was someone here at Audioholics? :)
As a matter of fact, i wouldn't be that much surprise seeing how many of us here have been very critical towards the media. Other community forums that i frequent in NEVER care about these kind of things. I won't name the other forums, may be because they are not very into being critical to things happening around them?
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
Well. Mr. Fisher and I continue our correspondence about the inaccuracies of his December 30th story, and his defense of them. This has been going on for a week now. Here is an excerpt from my latest email for those that are interested:




Dear Mr. Fisher:

Thank you for your reply.

I understand that you did not write "the Howell case was based on a mere transfer of legally obtained music from a CD to a computer." But that was the gist, that was the focus of the story, was it not? After all, your title reads "Download Uproar: Record Industry Goes After Personal Use". Come on. Anyone that reads that story understands the title and the gist of the story.

In your last email you have written to me:
"What was news in this case was the novel statement by the industry lawyer on page 15 of the supplemental brief, at the top of the page, saying that the mere possession of a copied piece of music was "unauthorized.""

The top of page 15 of the supplemental brief, in fact, all of page 15 of the supplemental brief, is about dissemination, not personal storage. The header for that page, or, more accurately, the point the Court wants the plaintiff to address, reads:
"C. Defendant possessed unauthorized copies of Plaintiff’s copyrighted sound recordings on his computer and actually disseminated such unauthorized copies over the KaZaA peer-to-peer network."

Thus, anything under that header is necessarily about dissemination...that is what the court asked for. To take any sentence or part of a sentence out of that paragraph without addressing dissemination is out of context, and misleading.

I do not understand how you can keep your position after I've brought to your attention the inaccurate title:
"Download Uproar: Record Industry Goes After Personal Use"
and the inaccurate sentence:
"In legal documents in its federal case against Jeffrey Howell, a Scottsdale, Ariz., man who kept a collection of about 2,000 music recordings on his personal computer, the industry maintains that it is illegal for someone who has legally purchased a CD to transfer that music into his computer."
And now your explanation is inaccurate: that page 15 of the brief is somehow not about dissemination.
...





Mr. Fisher's position is untenable, and futile (I always win :)). If he does not issue a correction by week's end, I will contact the editor. The title is misleading, the quotes are taken out of context, and the entire gist of the story is inaccurate. I am tiring of arguing the obvious. Either he folds, or I will make him fold. Blatant untruths, misquotes (out-of-context) and misleading stories cannot go unchecked when found.
I seriously applaud your efforts on this. We need more Americans to be this forward and challange the half truths we are fed seemingly every day. The more we show we won't stand for lies the better off we will be long term.



Take for instance a local story near me.

The Green Bay Police Department was going to cut out two of (its only) canine units because of budget purposes. The original story mentioned they (Green Bay Police department) would have access to Brown County's six canine units for investigations and such. However, since then all of the stories run make no mention they will have access to the county's canine units. The media has been chastising them for this in not so few words. The public is now on the half truth bandwagon and people are outside the police chief & city offical offices with signs saying not to axe the program. Now if looks as though the police chief and city officials will be strong armed into keeping them though they are not a necessity as they would have the county's canine units available at nearly anytime.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Ahhh. You are one of the other two jinjuku. Mr. Fisher has informed me that only two other people complained about the inaccuracies of his story. I guess that means, in his world, by extension, every one else got it right. Or did they? As he is the story teller and purveyor of information, why would he receive any negative feedback, unless they did research as we here at Audioholics have done?

And then there was only one. One other person that complained of the untruthfulness of his story. What are the chances it was someone here at Audioholics? :)
Given the blatant inaccuracies of his original article, I doubt just two people emailed him. Engadget is one of a few other sights that have posted about Mr. Fishers' journalistic flexibility.
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
Nice work, Johnd. But you have much more faith (not to mention respect) than I do for the Washington !#*%... I doubt very seriously they give a flying hoot about this. I long ago abandoned newspapers, save for the Wall Street Journal, precisely because of the type of reporting you are exposing here.

Keep us posted. I greatly appreciate your efforts!!!

Thanks much birdonthebeach. That means a lot, especially coming from one of the moderators here at Audioholics!

I understand that I cannot force them to print anything, nor can I force them to issue a retraction. At the very least I can bring to many people's attention the lack of care and blatant inaccuracies in this story. It is upsetting to me as I have been a long time reader, and have always held the Post in high regard...not that everything they print is Gospel, but that the vast majority of it is factual, on point, and the bulk of the truth. This story is none of those things, and, hopefully, this is a big eye-opener for those RIAA haters that I've been listening to for the past few years...get your facts straight and get the entire truth before you formulate an opinion.

I'll tell you, Mr. Fisher's tenacity in holding his position, as well as the original story, is an eye-opener for me. I have become even more skeptical (of all the news that's fit to print...oh wait, that's the other newspaper! :p). The more we correspond, the less tenable his position becomes. But he continues to be more and more adamant in the accuracy of his story. I'm thinking this guy's not to quick on the uptake...how can he continue to hold his position after the proof (basically, regurgitation of the briefs) I've offered?
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
Unbelievable

Well, here it is, straight from the horse's (The Washington Post's) mouth:



¿ A Dec. 30 Style & Arts column incorrectly said that the recording industry "maintains that it is illegal for someone who has legally purchased a CD to transfer that music into his computer." In a copyright-infringement lawsuit, the industry's lawyer argued that the actions of an Arizona man, the defendant, were illegal because the songs were located in a "shared folder" on his computer for distribution on a peer-to-peer network.



Posted today, a two sentence correction buried deep in the [circular] corrections file. I am sending a letter to the editor tomorrow (still, promised to no one :p) that I, for one, do not think that this is nearly enough. How many times have we been led astray by an overzealous reporter with an agenda? It truly begs the question. A small victory, but a victory nonetheless. Truth and Honor! And, oh yes, Sweet Victory! :)
 
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masak_aer

masak_aer

Senior Audioholic
Congrats for the good work and perseverance JohnD. As you said, a small victory but a victory nonetheless and no, i won't take this back..
 
mikeyj92

mikeyj92

Full Audioholic
Victory is won not in miles but in inches.

Well done Johnd.

PS-That quote is not mine. ;)
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Well, here it is, straight from the horse's (The Washington Post's) mouth:



¿ A Dec. 30 Style & Arts column incorrectly said that the recording industry "maintains that it is illegal for someone who has legally purchased a CD to transfer that music into his computer." In a copyright-infringement lawsuit, the industry's lawyer argued that the actions of an Arizona man, the defendant, were illegal because the songs were located in a "shared folder" on his computer for distribution on a peer-to-peer network.



Posted today, a two sentence correction buried deep in the [circular] corrections file. I am sending a letter to the editor tomorrow (still, promised to no one :p) that I, for one, do not think that this is nearly enough. How many times have we been led astray by an overzealous reporter with an agenda? It truly begs the question. A small victory, but a victory nonetheless. Truth and Honor! And, oh yes, Sweet Victory! :)
Linky? 54321
 

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