Another "will I be able to hear a difference" question

[timetohunt]

Two questions for an HT/Audio setup.

1. In general lets say you have a rather high end receiver. For example purposes just think of pretty much any $1500 receiver. Since that will more closely approximate what might be relevant for my situation.

Then think of a decent 7 channel amplifier, say one from Emotiva or possibly Outlaw.

Are you likely to hear any difference/improvement in using the 7ch amp instead of the receivers amplification ?

2. Is anyone using a receiver and an amp of the type mentioned ? Or when you get an amp like that are you generally apt to go more with pre/pro separates?

Thanks.

 

[fmw]

Only if you expect to or want to.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Two questions for an HT/Audio setup.
1. In general lets say you have a rather high end receiver. For example purposes just think of pretty much any $1500 receiver. Since that will more closely approximate what might be relevant for my situation.
Then think of a decent 7 channel amplifier, say one from Emotiva or possibly Outlaw.
Are you likely to hear any difference/improvement in using the 7ch amp instead of the receivers amplification ?
2. Is anyone using a receiver and an amp of the type mentioned ? Or when you get an amp like that are you generally apt to go more with pre/pro separates? Thanks.

It is like this:

It depends on the speaker's impedance and sensitivity and your listening habits, normal or reference levels all the time(loud).
But, if the components are head to head, operating within their design limits, should not be audibly different, end of story.

 

[jostenmeat]

Another large factor is the distance one sits from the speakers, as well.

There are a # of people at AVS who do use a receiver as a pre/pro to access the new formats at a reasonable price.

This receiver vs amp thing has been touched too many times to remember. The better threads I've read always have many knowledgable folks who put them head to head. And the results are usually split. I believe, because as the above post mentions, every setup will have different factors.

And then you toss in fmw's oft-stated placebo effect.... well.....

have fun in any case!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...7 channel amplifier, say one from Emotiva or possibly Outlaw...Or when you get an amp like that are you generally apt to go more with pre/pro separates?

Yeah, I think if you are getting a separate amplifier anyway, you should just get a Pre-Pro instead of a receiver. But get a pre-pro with all the new features like HDMI 1.3 & DTS-MA and TrueHD.

Sometimes you can hear a difference, sometimes you cannot. It depends on too many variables. I think it's like asking which is better, DTS vs DD, TrueHD vs DTS-MA vs PCM, and DTS-HR vs DD+. Sometimes you can hear a difference and sometimes you cannot.

There is nothing wrong with just getting a powerful receiver like the Onkyo 875 (tested as 128 wpc x 7, rated as 140 wpc x 7). You most likely will not need an external amplifier if you have this receiver.

And there is nothing wrong with getting separates like Amp + Pre-pro.

I prefer getting separates just BECAUSE.

 

[timetohunt]

This crosses over into another sort of question regarding amps I had. But since it goes off track a bit, I think I will start another thread. I know I am asking a lot from you guys these days, but it is truly appreciated. I am very thankful I found this site, otherwise I might have really blown it in regards to system and money by now. Best site. Reviews and forums together can't be beat.

 

[mtrycrafts]

This crosses over into another sort of question regarding amps I had. But since it goes off track a bit, I think I will start another thread. I know I am asking a lot from you guys these days, but it is truly appreciated. I am very thankful I found this site, otherwise I might have really blown it in regards to system and money by now. Best site. Reviews and forums together can't be beat.

You should spend some time at the AH home page and read the number of tech articles there, if you have not already done so. It has articles on amps, all channel driven controversy, wires, etc.

We exist to helping you and others, so ask away, but not all in one posting.

 

[John Bailey]

I believe in the Placebo/Hawthorne effect. Although I don't consider myself an audio expert, I do know music and I've auditioned 100's of speakers and amp's in a search for the sound I'm looking for. I think there is definitely a difference in quality when one hears systems costing 10's of 1,000's of dollars. I haven't detected a difference in quality in speakers under, roughly $3,000. Same for amps. Where there is a difference is the voicing in the speakers. That's why it's extremely important to get out and audition so you can tell what equipment fits your ears.

So, to answer your question, I don't think there's going to be difference between the two options you've posed. For the $1,500 or so you're talking about you're going to get some good equipment either way and you'll be making some good music.

John

 

[mtrycrafts]

I believe in the Placebo/Hawthorne effect. Although I don't consider myself an audio expert, I do know music and I've auditioned 100's of speakers and amp's in a search for the sound I'm looking for. I think there is definitely a difference in quality when one hears systems costing 10's of 1,000's of dollars. I haven't detected a difference in quality in speakers under, roughly $3,000. Same for amps. Where there is a difference is the voicing in the speakers. That's why it's extremely important to get out and audition so you can tell what equipment fits your ears.

So, to answer your question, I don't think there's going to be difference between the two options you've posed. For the $1,500 or so you're talking about you're going to get some good equipment either way and you'll be making some good music.

John

If you believe in the placebo effect, how do you audition speakers and components so that this effect is not influencing your perceptions?

 

[John Bailey]

If you believe in the placebo effect, how do you audition speakers and components so that this effect is not influencing your perceptions?

It's a fair point. I think that if you've done enough blind testing, you realize that relatively expensive equipment can, sometimes, be bettered by less expensive equipment. After awhile, you can train your mind to not be too influenced by the glitter of the price tag. Then, the different voicing and "sound" of a speaker is what you'll be comparing.

All that being said, I will admit that there is, probably, always some type of placebo effect going on. I also think that there are those with very good ears that can hear differences I'll never imagine.

John

 

[mtrycrafts]

It's a fair point. I think that if you've done enough blind testing, you realize that relatively expensive equipment can, sometimes, be bettered by less expensive equipment. After awhile, you can train your mind to not be too influenced by the glitter of the price tag. Then, the different voicing and "sound" of a speaker is what you'll be comparing.

All that being said, I will admit that there is, probably, always some type of placebo effect going on. I also think that there are those with very good ears that can hear differences I'll never imagine.

John

Well, yes, there are people who are well trained and know how to listen and for what. But, these same folks also know that to get credible audible differences, only the gold standard method will do, DBT.
Also, research shows that just because one is a conductor, a musician, a mastering engineer, doesn't give one immunity from the placebo effect, or that they are better at differentiating:

Gould, Glenn, "The Grass is Always Greener in the Outtakes," High Fidelity, Aug 75, pg 54-59.

Just one such experiment from many
Or, the recent JAES paper by E.Brad Myers and Moran on Hi-res and CD red book. Lots of high powered listeners, no difference at CD red book rates.