warm up time for a CD Player ? Wha?

[timetohunt]

Hello again. I have been posting quite a bit about my new CD player purchace. Despite the fact I did not give it a glowing review (yet?), I am happy to have it as I was not expecting a huge improvement anyway.

I talked to the salesman that sold it to me just this evening. He is a techy and installer, not just a sales guy, so I generally do trust what he says. He said that the last 4 customers who added one of these to their system, said that the unit really improves after about 20 hours of use.

Can that be true and how? My gut says that he likely did have people tell him this (he already made the sale), but I don't give it half a chance for being fact.

 

[ErinH]

I've never heard of anything like that. Warm up time for what? The laser's suspension to break in? bwaaaahahahah

*but, I've been wrong twice before*

 

[brulaha]

It's called a break in period. It tends to end about the time you can't return it. This is pure hog wash. It won't sound any better after 20 hours, 200 hours, or 2000 hours.

There certainly can be a break in period for speakers, as they have moving diaphragms. As for a CD player, highly unlikely.

 

[fmw]

It's called a break in period. It tends to end about the time you can't return it. This is pure hog wash. It won't sound any better after 20 hours, 200 hours, or 2000 hours.

There certainly can be a break in period for speakers, as they have moving diaphragms. As for a CD player, highly unlikely.

Speakers don't have in break in periods either. It is our familiarity with the sound that does the breaking in.

 

[fmw]

Hello again. I have been posting quite a bit about my new CD player purchace. Despite the fact I did not give it a glowing review (yet?), I am happy to have it as I was not expecting a huge improvement anyway.

I talked to the salesman that sold it to me just this evening. He is a techy and installer, not just a sales guy, so I generally do trust what he says. He said that the last 4 customers who added one of these to their system, said that the unit really improves after about 20 hours of use.

Can that be true and how? My gut says that he likely did have people tell him this (he already made the sale), but I don't give it half a chance for being fact.

It is a common psychological phenomenon and permeates the very fiber of high end audio. What happens is that the human gets accustomed to the the new equipment and familiarity breeds comfort. People think it sounds better than it did, not because it does, but because they are more comfortable with the sound. Actually, you would be hard pressed to tell one CD player from another in an objective listening test, let alone sense a change in its performance. I wouldn't spend any trust on what this fellow says.

 

[timetohunt]

Coming from the 'other side' of audiodom, this was an explanation that was given to me. (not from the sales guy).

****

"This will tread into troll-luring territory, but, I believe the change in sound is often due to the dielectric in the capacitors and/or wires getting signal passing through them. The upgraded polystyrene capacitors in a few of my DACs over the years all seemed to change in sound after a couple hundred hours. Insulation and its effect on phase and smearing of the signal is a much debated topic. I am of the camp that it makes a difference based on my listening experience."

****

All perspectives seem to be by intelligent folk. Both here at audioholics (which I consider my home source for audio info, and it meshes with my leanings more so than other sites) and elsewhere.
Hey, I'm looking for truth, sifting through it all. Its kind of fun but so conflicting.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hello again. I have been posting quite a bit about my new CD player purchace. Despite the fact I did not give it a glowing review (yet?), I am happy to have it as I was not expecting a huge improvement anyway.

I talked to the salesman that sold it to me just this evening. He is a techy and installer, not just a sales guy, so I generally do trust what he says. He said that the last 4 customers who added one of these to their system, said that the unit really improves after about 20 hours of use.

Can that be true and how? My gut says that he likely did have people tell him this (he already made the sale), but I don't give it half a chance for being fact.

Yup, as others have said, urban legend.
The trusted person is either going along with his customers and not offending them, or he is really just what he is, an installer and sales kind of person, nothing more.

If he is such a techy type, ask him to convince you technically, with data, not just hearsay evidence from 3rd parties.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Coming from the 'other side' of audiodom, this was an explanation that was given to me. (not from the sales guy).
****
"This will tread into troll-luring territory, but, I believe the change in sound is often due to the dielectric in the capacitors and/or wires getting signal passing through them. The upgraded polystyrene capacitors in a few of my DACs over the years all seemed to change in sound after a couple hundred hours. Insulation and its effect on phase and smearing of the signal is a much debated topic. I am of the camp that it makes a difference based on my listening experience."
****
All perspectives seem to be by intelligent folk. Both here at audioholics (which I consider my home source for audio info, and it meshes with my leanings more so than other sites) and elsewhere.
Hey, I'm looking for truth, sifting through it all. Its kind of fun but so conflicting.

We appreciate that you are after the facts. That is what everyone should be doing.

You should subscribe to Skeptical Inquirer. The latest issue has something in it about how the mind works or doesn't about myths, page 5:
"new psychological studies show that denials and clarifications, for all their intuitive appeal, can paradoxically contribute to the resilience of popular myths."

I'd like to ask that person quoted above how he did his comparison of his components brand new and many hours on it. It was his memory that is so perfect
I'd also would like to see the measurements on that DAC before and after.

 

[fmw]

Coming from the 'other side' of audiodom, this was an explanation that was given to me. (not from the sales guy).

****

"This will tread into troll-luring territory, but, I believe the change in sound is often due to the dielectric in the capacitors and/or wires getting signal passing through them. The upgraded polystyrene capacitors in a few of my DACs over the years all seemed to change in sound after a couple hundred hours. Insulation and its effect on phase and smearing of the signal is a much debated topic. I am of the camp that it makes a difference based on my listening experience."

****

All perspectives seem to be by intelligent folk. Both here at audioholics (which I consider my home source for audio info, and it meshes with my leanings more so than other sites) and elsewhere.
Hey, I'm looking for truth, sifting through it all. Its kind of fun but so conflicting.

Those of us who have learned better (in my case the hard way) could easily prove this fellow wrong if he would subject himself to objective testing. It would be fussy because it would require two units in this case - an old one and a new one. We did such a test once at the local friendly audio dealers store with two pairs of B&W Matrix 801 speaker systems - one belonging to the store owner and the other a new one being picked up by a customer.

However, the high end audio believers never want to subject themselves to the objectivity. Perhaps it is fear. Perhaps it is a feeling of superiority (my ears are better than your tests.) Perhaps it is a desire not to learn the truth because they enjoy what the beliefs provide. I don't know the reasons. I just know these beliefs just keep going and going and going like the pink bunny.


When I got involved in objective listening tests I changed my mind, admitted I had been wrong for almost 30 years and never looked back. I just wanted to learn the truth and I learned it about as subtly as a bulldozer pushes earth. That was 10 years ago. I know the truth now but I still enjoy audio as much as I ever did. I just enjoy it for less money and I listen to music without listening to the equipment.

 

[mtrycrafts]

However, the high end audio believers never want to subject themselves to the objectivity. Perhaps it is fear. Perhaps it is a feeling of superiority (my ears are better than your tests.) Perhaps it is a desire not to learn the truth because they enjoy what the beliefs provide. I don't know the reasons. I just know these beliefs just keep going and going and going like the pink bunny.


When I got involved in objective listening tests I changed my mind, admitted I had been wrong for almost 30 years and never looked back. I just wanted to learn the truth and I learned it about as subtly as a bulldozer pushes earth. That was 10 years ago. I know the truth now but I still enjoy audio as much as I ever did. I just enjoy it for less money and I listen to music without listening to the equipment.

There is an interesting psychology at work with beliefs, accepting myths and more so when some try to show you reality. An interesting SI article on it, current issue.

A few of us, like you, who are seeking reality, trying to exercise critical thinking, are so far in the minority. One only has to look around as this applies in every endevor in life, not just audio.

And, as you have shown, and unfortunately many cannot accept, is that one can be wrong for 30 years, 50 years, hundreds, even 1000s.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Wow, what a steaming load of BS!

 

[davidtwotrees]

There is an interesting psychology at work with beliefs, accepting myths......... A few of us, like you, who are seeking reality, trying to exercise critical thinking, are so far in the minority. One only has to look around as this applies in every endevor in life, not just audio.
And, as you have shown, and unfortunately many cannot accept, is that one can be wrong for 30 years, 50 years, hundreds, even 1000s.

Excellent. I was thinking the very same thing and comparing subjectivist audio beliefs to religons-which are as subjectivist as audio beliefs.

My brother is a total obectivist Mech. Engineer. His mantra is logic and common sense, and he applies these to all facets of his life.......except religion where he suspends his objectivism totally.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

His mantra is logic and common sense, and he applies these to all facets of his life.......except religion where he suspends his objectivism totally.

All too common, and something I will never understand.

 

[mtrycrafts]

My brother is a total obectivist Mech. Engineer. His mantra is logic and common sense, and he applies these to all facets of his life.......except religion where he suspends his objectivism totally.

And, some in the same boat will suspend it when it comes to their beloved hobby, audio as I have seen some highly educated individuals do so.
Human nature, evolution, I guess.

 

[annunaki]

I did have a set of car audio subwoofers that were louder after about 12-15 hours on them. It was measured as well. It should be noted that their suspensions were very stiff from the factory and tended to loosen up after some time. This resulted in the woofer making better use of input power and the suspension able to react better to power input. That manufacturer also recommended the break in period. In this case it was not a placebo type effect.