Buying from an "Authorized Dealer"?

[Adameus]

I'm trying to find a good deal on a Yamaha RX-V659, but all of the best prices seem to be from non-Authorized Dealers (around $300 - $325) while the authorized dealers have them for around $390 - $420.

I've seen things stating that Yamaha might not honor their warranty if you purchase from a dealer that is not authorized...

A: Is this true?
B: Isn't that against federal trade laws?
C: For any other reason, does it really matter if I buy from an authorized dealer?

Thanks!

 

[Johnd]

I'm trying to find a good deal on a Yamaha RX-V659, but all of the best prices seem to be from non-Authorized Dealers (around $300 - $325) while the authorized dealers have them for around $390 - $420.

I've seen things stating that Yamaha might not honor their warranty if you purchase from a dealer that is not authorized...

A: Is this true?
B: Isn't that against federal trade laws?
C: For any other reason, does it really matter if I buy from an authorized dealer?

Thanks!

A: Yes.
B: No. (and why would it be?)
C: Warranty/service is the reason to buy from an authorized dealer.

 

[Adameus]

A: Yes.
B: No. (and why would it be?)
C: Warranty/service is the reason to buy from an authorized dealer.

Thanks.

In response to B. The reason it is an MSRP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price) is that it is against federal Fair Trade laws for a manufacturer to force retailers to sell for a required minimum price.

While the manufacturer may suggest a retail price, it cannot coerce the retailer into agreeing to it. If an agreement between the manufacturer and retailer is obtained, then the agreement is illegal

(From: artrm.com/retail/msrp )

Seems to me that making a dealer "authorized" only if they sell for a specific price is actaully illegal. I'm not saying that Yamaha is actually saying this to dealers...but the fact that all authorized dealers prices on this are within ~$10 of each other is what made me think of this.

All said and done, I doubt that Yamaha is technically doing anything illegal, and I'll probably buy from Crutchfield, but it just annoys me that I have to pay $100 more for a warranty.

 

[davidtwotrees]

All said and done, I doubt that Yamaha is technically doing anything illegal, and I'll probably buy from Crutchfield, but it just annoys me that I have to pay $100 more for a warranty.

You're also paying for all that goes with a Bricks and Mortar company-employees, service staff, insurance, and dealing with the Big company on warranty issues and all that goes with being in business. The unauthorized guy is often a guy working from his house, or some start up guys with a small ware house and a computer. Take your pick.

 

[annunaki]

Most of the companies that are unauthorized will sometimes have less than perfect merchandise being sold as "new". They also will have very little support to help you out if you need it.

You may be able to find a local dealer who is willing to lower the price a bit to meet you halfway or something. That way you have someone local if there is a problem, you get a better deal, and you get the manufacturer warranty.

A customer of mine was burnt big time by purchasing from an online unauthorized dealer.

Granted it was for a car system, but it works on the same premise.
He purchased an amplifier as "new" which turned out to be "B-Stock". It ended up defective with some issues. The manufacturer would not repair it under warranty because it was not purchased from an authorized dealer. It was a $200.00 flat rate charge to get it repaired (which is about what he paid for the amplifier). He is more or less out of an amp now. The seller said he had to pay a $50.00 up front fee and then send the amplifier in and they would fix it. He does not want to work with them because they lied about the amplifier from the beginning.

He also purchased some speakers and they claimed they were new and in stock. After the purchase, they sent him an email claiming they were temorarily out of stock. After waiting for 2-1/2 weeks he cancelled the order, got his money back and I installed some equivalent speakers for him within two days of contacting me.


Sometimes it is advantageous to pay a little more up front.

 

[Adameus]

Thanks for your responses.

I guess the next question is which of these would you buy from?

Abt Electronics
Electronics Expo
Crutchfield

These are the only three authorized dealers that I have found that sell the 659. I have experience with Crutchfield for car audio, so I will probably go with them unless one of the others has the 659 on sale (it was $350 at Electronics Expo before Xmas - before I had my xmas money...)

 

[davidtwotrees]

I've heard of Crutchfield and ABT.
I would give the nod to Crutchfield as all the do is AV, whereas ABT is a giant consumer electronics dealer. I have also heard rave reviews in Crutchfield's customer support.

 

[GlocksRock]

I took a risk and bought my RX-V1800 off ebay and it came double boxed and it perfect condition, before the seller shipped it, he actually called me to let me know that there was no mfg. warranty, and gave me the option to purchase a warranty from a 3rd party, and if I were to decline that, I would need to send an email stating I decline the warranty. I thought that was pretty good service, and they wanted to make sure the end user knew about the warranty situation. Yamaha receivers are known for being very well built, and for the most part are trouble free. I also bought my old RX-V1600 from ebay and it gave me no problems either. I figure the $300 I saved on the receiver would be well worth it so long as the receiver doesn't give me any issues during the warranty period, and so far it has been running like a champ.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks for your responses.

I guess the next question is which of these would you buy from?

Abt Electronics
Electronics Expo
Crutchfield

These are the only three authorized dealers that I have found that sell the 659. I have experience with Crutchfield for car audio, so I will probably go with them unless one of the others has the 659 on sale (it was $350 at Electronics Expo before Xmas - before I had my xmas money...)

I've bought electronics from Abt Electronics, Onecall, J&R, B&H Photo, Amazon.com, and Buy.com.

I trust Buy.com the most, Amazon is 2nd, and Crutchfield is 3rd.

Oh yeah, I also trust Bestbuy.com and Circuitcity.com.

 

[GlocksRock]

I've bought electronics from Abt Electronics, Onecall, J&R, B&H Photo, Amazon.com, and Buy.com.

I trust Buy.com the most, Amazon is 2nd, and Crutchfield is 3rd.

Oh yeah, I also trust Bestbuy.com and Circuitcity.com.

I've also bought from circuitcity.com, bestbuy.com, vanns.com, crutchfield.com, buy.com, amazon.com, onecall.com, partsexpress.com and I'm sure I'm forgetting some, but I would also trust several other sites that I haven't used, simply because I was able to get the same or similar product elsewhere for less money. I did buy my current tv from onecall.com and the service was excellent, and I just purchased a 73" Mitsubishi DLP from amazon.com and shipping was fast from their warehouse, I'm just waiting for it to be delivered to my house, hopfully the rest of the transactoin will be just as easy as the first part of it has been. For really big items like that, I would not even consider purchasing it from an unauthorized dealer, especially since that set is known to have some possible humming issues, but since I bought from an authorized dealer, I will have no trouble getting it serviced should it need it.

 

[fmw]

Thanks.

In response to B. The reason it is an MSRP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price) is that it is against federal Fair Trade laws for a manufacturer to force retailers to sell for a required minimum price.

Actually it is the old fair trade laws that were made illegal back in the the 1970's. It has been legal for manufacturers to impose minimum advertised price policies since the early 1990's because of a US supreme court case. It is very common practice. I am bound by some MAP policies myself. If I don't follow them, the manufacturers will stop shipping me. No different than if I stopped paying them for the product.

I'm pretty sure that the case that made it legal to deny warranty for gray market products was the Nikon case. Nikon USA goes further than other manufacturers. Not only will they deny warranty service in the U.S. for gray market products, they will deny paid service as well and won't sell parts to third parties. So gray market products have to go overseas for service. All of that is now legal.

(From: artrm.com/retail/msrp )

Seems to me that making a dealer "authorized" only if they sell for a specific price is actaully illegal. I'm not saying that Yamaha is actually saying this to dealers...but the fact that all authorized dealers prices on this are within ~$10 of each other is what made me think of this.

All said and done, I doubt that Yamaha is technically doing anything illegal, and I'll probably buy from Crutchfield, but it just annoys me that I have to pay $100 more for a warranty.

I can assure you, Yamaha is most likely very specific with their minimum advertised price program. I'm sure it is printed and explained in writing to the dealers.

The purpose of these programs is to protect the dealers against themselves. I have a gray market Yamaha digital piano. The price at the authorized dealer was $3800 and the price from the gray market dealer was $2800. The product I received is exactly like the one the dealer would have provided except that it was crated and I had to set it up myself and, of course, it has no Yamaha warranty. My assumption is that the $1000 I saved will more than handle any repairs over the next 4 years. I don't expect the unit to need any repairs at all. It is well made and known to be extremely reliable.

So you make your decisions and you live with the consequences. I'm not against dealers earning a margin. I'm a dealer myself. But there needs to be a reasonable price difference between gray market and white market. $1000 is just too much to overlook.

 

[DavidG]

There are quite a few online dealers that are not authorized by Yamaha that will warranty the merchandise themselves, since Yamaha will not warranty a purchase of their merchandise from them. I bought the same receiver that you are looking at, and received a 1 yr warranty from the site I purchased it from.

 

[Adameus]

Okay,

I went ahead and bought the reciever from an authorized dealer. I found it for $369 at Electronics Expo with free shipping. It took a while for them to process my order and it was a full 6 days for them to process my order (granted one of those days was a sunday and one was New Year's Day) so I got it 10 days after I ordered. I didn't mind that so much as I minded their poor customer service. After my order hadn't been processed for 3 days, I called and was basically told "don't worry about it, I'm sure it will go through soon." I then noticed in my order confirmation that they were to ship it UPS with a request to have it delivered on Saturday or Sunday. I emailed customer service to request the package be delivered during the week and never got a response back from them (though it was delivered on monday).

Anyway, that aside, I got everything hooked up so far and it sounds great! Sound in movies is lacking because I am only running a stereo set up right now (see my signature) until my wife lets me buy a center and a sub, but music sounds GREAT, especially using the "pure direct" mode on the reciever. The first disc I listened to was Steely Dan's Aja and was really impressed by the presence of the sound (which sounds compressed when going through my car stereo). I then went on to some acoustic music (Alexi Murdoch) and in passages when he knocks on his guitar, I thought someone was knocking on my front door.

So, needless to say, I'm really happy with my purchase!

 

[GlocksRock]

Congrats on your new receiver, it's always so much fun to get new stuff.

 

[fmw]

I then noticed in my order confirmation that they were to ship it UPS with a request to have it delivered on Saturday or Sunday. I emailed customer service to request the package be delivered during the week and never got a response back from them (though it was delivered on monday).

D

For the record, UPS doesn't deliver on weekends unless you pay for Saturday delivery which is an overnight type of shipping option that would have cost over $100 for a receiver. You were in no danger of having it delivered on a weekend. Congratulations on the new receiver.

 

[MUDSHARK]

Nobody put in a plug for Audioholics new store? OK, I'll suck up and post a link to the Yamaha page.http://store.audioholics.com/section/69/1

$399 and free shipping, I think plus maybe 10% off for awhile.

Little late but I would recommend B&H Photo and OneCall among e-tailers for great pricing and low risk. I have purchased from each several times with no problems at all.