Finding truth in audio but then buying Rotel RCD-1072 without listening

[timetohunt]

When I was twelve years old, I saved enough money to buy Radio Shack's flagship Optimus floorstanding speakers after saving my allowance for about a year. I used to look at them in the store at least once a week and when they went on sale for $260, it cut my saving time by months (way back round 1976). That was big dollars for speakers for a paperboy, much less an adult.

Now I look back and as I begin again to try and set up a modest system, I can proudly say I was onto something. It just seemed logical to buy the best and yea, biggest, that I could afford. Afterall, thats where the music come out.

 

[timetohunt]

UNFINISHED POST - Sorry I accidently submitted the above post before finishing.

Continued:

Anyway, I friend recently purchased a rather high end receiver. He's go lots of expendable cash but knows less then I do about audio equipment and formats. After he listened to my system, he wanted to jump in quickly.

So he had to go out and get a receiver which he contends will be the heart of his system after repeatedly trying to get him to slow down a bit. Says he wanted to read the manual for a few days and hunt for speaker all the while.
He paid $2000 for the receiver. No need to say which cuz its really not applicable.

Since he is staying with me for a few days, obvioulsly he wanted to try it out on my system. I had no problem with that, thought I could show him initial set up and get him more comfortable before he travels home.

MY AVR is a $300 Pioneer VSX-816. Bottom line is we spent a day or two fiddling with both mine and his new one. And I tried to detect some significant differences in sound quality but I could not. His was surely built at a higher quality. Just the look, feel, and weight of the thing was really nice. But sound in a variety of formats really could not be detected. He even said that he thought the cheap one sounded better in some instances.

So, I guess what I am reading here and on Audio Critic seems to back up my gut feeling that I even had as I kid.

That being said, I just ordered a Rotel RCD-1072 CD Player. Still can't learn ey? One, I had my eye on it and now its on sale. Two, I have so many CDs, that I thought if nothing else, I would buy the CDs a xmas gift.

When I get it. I am going to try to see if I can get that audio comparison software that Audio Critic talks about. So we can see how my $70 panasonic univeral player stacks up to it. This will be another step in trying to find the truth in audio. My guess is I not going to notice much if anything.

Anyone know of any good threads on the forum for setting up comparison tests.

thanks

 

[Davemcc]

Congrats on the new toy. A Rotel like that should last you a decade or more, one upside to choosing quality product.

I have a feeling that you are about to be hammered with more info than you care to imagine about double blind testing methodology.
Start Here

 

[Geno]

I see you've read the Audio Critic. As you've seen, he subscribes to the idea, as do I, that amplifiers, when operated within their capabilities, are indistinguishable from each other. This has been proven many times over the years, but the audio elite still insist on ascribing magical properties to various types and brands of equipment. As long as the receiver/amp/preamp has the input/processing features you want, the sound is going to be just fine. Speakers are the one component that will make a big difference in what you hear.

 

[TLS Guy]

I see you've read the Audio Critic. As you've seen, he subscribes to the idea, as do I, that amplifiers, when operated within their capabilities, are indistinguishable from each other. This has been proven many times over the years, but the audio elite still insist on ascribing magical properties to various types and brands of equipment. As long as the receiver/amp/preamp has the input/processing features you want, the sound is going to be just fine. Speakers are the one component that will make a big difference in what you hear.

That's right! Most speakers stomp their signature right over everything. So very very few get out of the way.

 

[fmw]

MY AVR is a $300 Pioneer VSX-816. Bottom line is we spent a day or two fiddling with both mine and his new one. And I tried to detect some significant differences in sound quality but I could not. His was surely built at a higher quality. Just the look, feel, and weight of the thing was really nice. But sound in a variety of formats really could not be detected. He even said that he thought the cheap one sounded better in some instances.

Apparently you have an ability to "hear through" your biases and that's a good thing and it makes it a whole lot easier to do comparative listening tests. I can do it too but only after days and days of blind testing. I think you need to have a little training in NOT hearing differences just like you need some to hear them. You probably need less training than most - certainly less than me. The information people have provided on blind testing will get you started.

Incidentally, I think the best reason to buy a piece of audio equipment is because you like it and want it. Nothing wrong with that. We all do that.

 

[timetohunt]

From most of my follow up findings and listening in general. I truly believe I went in the right direction. I started about a year ago on my system. I collected music for many years but not since those teenage days have I invested in gear. I would spend maybe a couple grand a year on CDs and then there was no money left for better equipment.

So far I have invested about $3900 in speakers including subs. The AVR, mains amp, player all totaled to about $800. I think I have another $350 or so in wires, cables, and wall connection pieces.

I don't do much with video in regards to quality, just don't care. I got the whole system set up to 2 tvs with whatever connects and then a flat monitor with componet video. I have nothing with HDMI, which keeps my costs low. I hope HDMI does not somehow become real important to my audio needs. Can't see where it will. Anyone on that?

I bought all my main and sub speakers new, I liked the audio shop where I purchased them due to their rep for standing up behind their sales. The RCD-1072 is new, only because those used are not that much cheaper. Afterthat, anything else in the way of amps, players, or other toys is going to used. My budget is close to limit, and will be for quite a while.

 

[B3Nut]

No shame in picking up a higher-end CD player, even if they usually don't sound different in an ABX test. It may cost 10 times what that Panasonic cost, but I'll bet it provides 10 times the lifespan, since Rotel gear is very well-made. I bought a high-end Denon player (DCD-1560) on closeout in 1992 for $450 (was 600 or so, maye more). It still works, though right now the tray won't open due to a bad belt. I just need to get it out of the rack to work on it (I have another player plus a PC with nearly all my CD's ripped as WMA Lossless, so I'm not in a hurry.) Point being, I got 15 years so far of use of a full-featured CD player with solid build. I see no reason why I can't keep using it once I fix the tray, the Sony Linear Motor transport it has is still a fantastic unit. I have a tanklike little Sony CDP-302, also with a linear motor that I bought at St. Vincent's for $25, with remote. 1985 vintage, and aside from a sluggish tray it runs like a top.

Nothing wrong with buying gear because it's solid, or because you just like it. I think we all do that. What do you think feeds my 70's receiver habit?

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

 

[mtrycrafts]

Anyone know of any good threads on the forum for setting up comparison tests.

thanks

Well, I doubt there are audible differences between those CD players under level matched blind testing.

Level matching is critical. Best to use a volt meter at the speaker terminals and check with a test CD at several frequencies: 100Hz, 1kHz, 10kHz. A 1% voltage change between the players is only a .1dB spl change which is very good and don't want it higher. If they are, hopefully you can change the volume enough to match them. Not all volt meters will read correctly at 1kHz and above but it should repeat the reading between the two CD players indicating matching. In another word, the voltage at 100Hz may not be the same at 1kHz and 10kHz but whatever it is it should be the same between the players.

If you make a copy of a CD, I doubt you can synchronize it to 1 ms, otherwise you will detect one as leading the other and give it away. So, unfortunately, you and hopefully someone else can swap the Cd so you don't know which is which playing and try to compare it as being the same or different. Another unfortunate part is that time is against you; your memory for detecting and remembering small differences is very short, a few seconds.

Statistically you need 9 correct guessing out of 10, 12 of 15 and 15 of 20 to be statistically significant results for hearing differences.

The $ensible Sound did a blind test with an RCA $80 carousel player and ones costing $1000s, a good number of subjects, not one could differentiate

Otherwise don't have a good link for you.

 

[jostenmeat]

Congrats timetohunt. I heard that player once, but did not get to compare. Nice looking unit, though. There's a person at another forum who enjoys hearing many different cdp's and his opinion was that the 1072 was the best bang for buck cdp out there. (He owns very fancy Mac gear, including cdp...) Have fun!