America's Unchallenged Youth...

[markw]

I don't consider sex to be a moral issue at all. I say buy plenty of condoms and go for it. Unprotected sex is the issue, and the thing that leads to major problems.

And, just how do you plan to make them use them?

Sorry, you may not se esex and s a moral issue, but going out and making babies without any "protection" because it's fun and then walking away from the responsibility of providing and for and raising them IS a moral issue, They are no better than monkeys in a zoo.

 

[Halon451]

And, just how do you plan to make them use them?

Sorry, you may not se esex and s a moral issue, but going out and making babies without any "protection" because it's fun and then walking away from the responsibility of providing and for and raising them IS a moral issue, They are no better than monkeys in a zoo.

Or going out and making babies as a means of earning additional government assistance, not only because it's fun. These are the same people who will live their life with their hand out, rather than get off their a$& and make something of themselves. Meanwhile, these children grow up and adopt that mentality as soon as they're weened off that bottle of welfare provided Enfamil. There are components to this issue that have only come to light in recent times, and we're seeing it more and more.

 

[aberkowitz]

Or going out and making babies as a means of earning additional government assistance, not only because it's fun. These are the same people who will live their life with their hand out, rather than get off their a$& and make something of themselves. Meanwhile, these children grow up and adopt that mentality as soon as they're weened off that bottle of welfare provided Enfamil. There are components to this issue that have only come to light in recent times, and we're seeing it more and more.

The interesting thing about that is that there are more problems with this in certain European countries (Sweden in particular) these days than in the US because the benefits are much better and there are no caps or time limits. Welfare reform in the 90s actually helped to put a dent in this practice in the US. Welfare rolls have been decreasing over the last 10 years, and states have gotten smarter about how they dole out money and have cleaned up a lot of crap.

Welfare reform was the best thing that Clinton and the Republican Congress did together while they were in office.

 

[Halon451]

The interesting thing about that is that there are more problems with this in certain European countries (Sweden in particular) these days than in the US because the benefits are much better and there are no caps or time limits. Welfare reform in the 90s actually helped to put a dent in this practice in the US. Welfare rolls have been decreasing over the last 10 years, and states have gotten smarter about how they dole out money and have cleaned up a lot of crap.

Welfare reform was the best thing that Clinton and the Republican Congress did together while they were in office.

Hmmm... perhaps. I'd be hard pressed to give the Clinton administration credit for anything, but (ahem), I'll leave that alone. If what you say is true, then I don't see any fire being lit under the same lazy a$&'s that are the targets of this welfare reform. You might think that if: given time limits, and caps, and mandated job searching, that sooner or later they would get the hint, and realize their free meal ticket will eventually expire.

Nay - I've yet to see it. Maybe there's a bit of lag time and it's taking a while to catch up. Who knows?

 

[stratman]

Sorry fellas I'm kind of bringing the thread back to the OP title; America's Unchallenged Youth, needless to say I was just working in the backyard, I finished assembling my son's tree house/playground, as I stood there looking at my handiwork, I realized the kids in this nation are very challenged, but in the wrong direction, think about it. They're challenged to watch as much TV as possible by mass-marketing, they're told its OK to be a slacker, a pimp, to beat your girlfriend, to be promiscuous, to disrespect your elders, to defy authority, and so on. Young girls look to Oprah for guidance, who is in need of guidance herself.

The responsibility starts and ends at home, period. Broken homes mean broken children which grow into broken adults. No one knows how to stop the cycle, it borders on morals ethics and though some don't want to hear it, religion. For centuries religion kept people in line, man discards religion, adopts so-called enlightenment, man loses morals society decays. There is a difference between liberty and the pursuit of happiness and libertinism and the pursuit of debauchery.

 

[aberkowitz]

Hmmm... perhaps. I'd be hard pressed to give the Clinton administration credit for anything, but (ahem), I'll leave that alone. If what you say is true, then I don't see any fire being lit under the same lazy a$&'s that are the targets of this welfare reform. You might think that if: given time limits, and caps, and mandated job searching, that sooner or later they would get the hint, and realize their free meal ticket will eventually expire.

Nay - I've yet to see it. Maybe there's a bit of lag time and it's taking a while to catch up. Who knows?

After he realized that tax hikes and Hillarycare were the worst ideas on the planet, I give him credit for doing nothing and allowing the economy to grow exponentially for a number of years. That said, we can trace the roots of both the tech bubble and the current housing bubble back to those laissez-faire policies.

 

[Alex2507]

No one knows how to stop the cycle

I know how to stop the cycle. Empathy and if you don't like something then do something to change it, don't just whine.

Not calling you a whiner Strat just making a general statement about stopping the cycle.

 

[markw]

Empathy has nothing to do with it. Once cannot force others to change.

I know how to stop the cycle. Empathy and if you don't like something then do something to change it, don't just whine.

Not calling you a whiner Strat just making a general statement about stopping the cycle.

One can feel for them all they want, but change comes from within. One can provide guidance, support and materials but, unless someone wants to change, there's not much anyone can do about it.

As it stands, we keep giving them fish while they refuse to learn how to fish for themselves. and yet, we continue to give them fish...

 

[Johnd]

No one knows how to stop the cycle

I agree with your entire post except for this one statement.

You wrote it yourself: it begins and ends at home. The negative influences of the media and society can be curtailed by limiting and being deliberate in which media is engaged in, which social circles are encountered and what information is sought. Good parenting, strong family values, morality, religion, intelligence is, for the most part, all based on the early years of life (the first ten or twenty years). Without that good foundation, good luck. So I feel all is not lost. Redouble those efforts at home and with those close to you.

 

[Tomorrow]

I agree with your entire post except for this one statement.

You wrote it yourself: it begins and ends at home. The negative influences of the media and society can be curtailed by limiting and being deliberate in which media is engaged in, which social circles are encountered and what information is sought. Good parenting, strong family values, morality, religion, intelligence is, for the most part, all based on the early years of life (the first ten or twenty years). Without that good foundation, good luck. So I feel all is not lost. Redouble those efforts at home and with those close to you.

You missed the point, John. S-man exactly laid out the path. The point is...how to get others, as in most of our society, to do the same thing...how to affect cultural change.

And quit your lecturing. I think you'll find few who practice what they preach more than him when it comes to parenting.

 

[Johnd]

You missed the point, John. S-man exactly laid out the path. The point is...how to get others, as in most of our society, to do the same thing...how to affect cultural change.

And quit your lecturing. I think you'll find few who practice what they preach more than him when it comes to parenting.

Ummmmm, I wasn't lecturing, and I certainly did not miss his point. I read his post carefully. I agreed with it in its' entirety except for that one phrase of "No one knows how to stop the cycle."

 

[Tomorrow]

Ummmmm, I wasn't lecturing, and I certainly did not miss his point. I read his post carefully. I agreed with it in its' entirety except for that one phrase of "No one knows how to stop the cycle."

Lecturing him to go home and redouble his efforts....etc.

I'm glad at least one person knows how to stop the cycle. Would you mind stopping it?

 

[Johnd]

Lecturing him to go home and redouble his efforts....etc.

To repeat, not a lecture. The suggestion to redouble the effort was not directed at Strat in the least...you misunderstand. I do not know him personally at all. It was a general comment...spiffballing, if you will. I thought that was allowed here.

 

[Tomorrow]

To repeat, not a lecture. The suggestion to redouble the effort was not directed at Strat in the least...you misunderstand. I do not know him personally at all. It was a general comment...spiffballing, if you will. I thought that was allowed here.

Hmmm...weren't you just lecturing Joe Schmoe to be careful of his language lest he be misunderstood?! When you say "you should" (as you did to S-man), one takes that to mean..."you should" to the person you're addressing. LOL.

Back to the point. Since you know how to stop the cycle, would you mind doing so, please? Thanks.

 

[Halon451]

After he realized that tax hikes and Hillarycare were the worst ideas on the planet, I give him credit for doing nothing and allowing the economy to grow exponentially for a number of years. That said, we can trace the roots of both the tech bubble and the current housing bubble back to those laissez-faire policies.

I was just baiting you man, trying to be facetious. But from where I'm standing it looks like the housing bubble has kind of deflated, but that's not on topic.

Stratman really put it all in perspective with his post. I remember when I was a kid, going out and doing things like building forts and learning to use my Dad's tools, and figuring out ways to safely jump your bicycle across a ditch (mind you that always ended in disaster) were the common things to do as a kid. It was the spirit of invention and ingenuity, discovery and yes... failure. But I remember what it was like in a time when if you failed, it was you who was responsible, so what if your feelings were hurt in the process. Learn from your mistakes and try not to repeat the same ones twice. This is how my father raised me, and even though I fell into a bad cycle with bad friends during my teen years, this notion stuck with me underneath, and I've become a capable, semi-successful citizen in this country. If I had not had this, if my father had not been there to let me know when I f***ed up, and showed me how to do it right, god knows where I would be now.

And this is what many kids are stuck with. The only thing that starts at home is birth and changing diapers. After that, our screwed up backwards culture takes over.

 

[Johnd]

Hmmm...weren't you just lecturing Joe Schmoe to be careful of his language lest he be misunderstood?! When you say "you should", one takes that to mean..."you should" to the person you're addressing. LOL.

Back to the point. Since you know how to stop the cycle, would you mind doing so, please? Thanks.

Do you really want to go toe to toe? Mixing threads? Joe wrote that he could "disrespect" anyone he wanted to. I had something to say about that. Still do. It was brought to my attention that he may misunderstand, or may simply be misusing that term. Then he qualified my suspicions by writing that disrespect is simply a feeling. I have nothing more to add. Many misuse terms.

So this is far from lecturing. It's not even correcting. Not my provence. It is about clarification. So that I can understand. Did we not go through this months ago? What one means, what one doesn't mean, and what one doesn't know.

Back on point. At face value, strat's single statement struck me as a general statement to all. After all, he wrote "No one knows how to stop the cycle." That is a proclamation about all people, of which I am a part. I am therefore entitled to respond....like it, or not. It is to that message I responded. Perhaps you would do better by thinking of my post as an augmentation (and/or request for clarification), rather than a correction. As I already wrote, I agreed with his post in its' entirety, except for that segment. Words speak volumes, and those words spoke plainly to me. But enough sophistry.

Uggghhh. I hope I don't get so fuzzy headed when I approach you age.

 

[Alex2507]

Back to the point. Since you know how to stop the cycle, would you mind doing so, please? Thanks.

Tomorrow,
I'm the one who claimed to know how to stop the cycle. To use your example of fish let me just say that the one and only fish I EVER gave away was to another fisherman and that was only because he was hungry.

Maybe empathy isn't quite the right word for it. Let me try the word connectedness. I am stopping the cycle. I guess the effects of my efforts have yet to reach you but wait for it. You'll know it when you see it. Like others here have said, it starts at home but I figure it's like the Domino effect. The last domino never understands where it all started but it knows that it has been affected.

 

[Johnd]

The last domino never understands where it all started but it knows that it has been affected.

Poignant. True. And gives one pause. Nice post Alex.

 

[Halon451]

Gentlemen - there is no need to bicker about this. It seems that it's becoming easier to wrap ourselves around the axle on one tiny statement amidst a whole paragraph of good logic, the more this thread continues. I didn't think I would come back to it myself, but thanks to Markw, he stoked the fire a bit and it pulled us right back in. It seems as if there is still a lot to be said on the matter, jumping on each other's case isn't going to bring about any solutions.

I don't think any of us are really expecting to reach a conclusive answer to the problems that we face - as a society, we each see it maybe a slightly different way, but I haven't heard anyone yet say that we DON'T have a problem of some kind. So it's worth debating and talking about.

Play nice with each other.

 

[Johnd]

Play nice with each other.

This is me being nice Halon.

No affronts here. The written word can sometimes be written hastily, or simply misunderstood by reading it haphazardly. I delve ino those words to interpret their whole meaning. Verbal discussions are readily held in this manner. So I think should written discussions (at least on the more important topics). So carry on, and paece out.