Treatment Suggestions

[Halon451]

Hello all - I find myself a little more than overwhelmed at the information regarding acoustic treatments for typical HT setups, and that each case is unique in both its problems and subsequent solutions.

I thought I would go ahead and post my layout on this section of the forum and see if anyone has any suggestions for room treatments and/or bass traps.

I have an extremely high WAF issue, so turning my living room into a recording studio is not an option. I am completely unfamiliar with the usual products and assortment of panelling that is available that will be both functional and attractive.

Or if anyone has any suggestions on re-arranging my speakers. Note - the front channels are actually toed-in just a tad, which is not depicted on the layout.

Would hanging some absorption panels on the wall behind the couch offer much of an improvement? Should I concentrate on the corners?



Thanks!

 

[bpape]

That's a tough space due to lack of corners and non-symmetric layout. The one thing I see to do is to treat directly behind each speaker to deal with boundary/speaker issues.

Also, if you can get the seating away from the back wall a bit that will help a lot. Right against a wall you're getting tons of bass buildup by being next to a boundary. That also creates a place behind the couch on the floor for some broadband treatments that will not be seen a lot - increasing WAF.

Lastly, if you can treat on the rear wall directly behind your head, that will also minimize some of the bass buildup issues and provide some general decay time control in the room.

Bryan

 

[Glenn Kuras]

I have an extremely high WAF issue, so turning my living room into a recording studio is not an option. I am completely unfamiliar with the usual products and assortment of panelling that is available that will be both functional and attractive.

Funny you should bring this up. Last fall I was out at the Rock Mountain Audio Fest and got talking to some of the guys there about room treatment (YES AT THE BAR). All the guys seem to say the same thing to me "Glenn build us a product the wife will like". So when I got back we all put our heads together over here at GIK camp and came up with 2 new things, the GIK 242 Elite and the GIK Pillar Elite.
You think your wife would go for something like this?

If your good with wood working you could also build something like this.

Glenn

 

[mtrycrafts]

Funny you should bring this up.

If your good with wood working you could also build something like this.

Glenn

Perhaps you should try to find acoustic material with designs on them, or other solid colors?
That low wall treatment, bottom picture needs some nice wood trim to cover the attachments.

 

[Halon451]

Funny you should bring this up. Last fall I was out at the Rock Mountain Audio Fest and got talking to some of the guys there about room treatment (YES AT THE BAR). All the guys seem to say the same thing to me "Glenn build us a product the wife will like". So when I got back we all put our heads together over here at GIK camp and came up with 2 new things, the GIK 242 Elite and the GIK Pillar Elite.
You think your wife would go for something like this?

If your good with wood working you could also build something like this.

Glenn

I like the top one, it kind of looks like a little droid, standing there. I appreciate the help though - trust me, I am way in uncharted territory here, so any help is greatly appreciated (regarding acoustics). It's merely something I have never really given much consideration to, until I started frequenting this forum and learning more and more about audio in general.

I have to admit, that I don't think the wife would really go for either one of the panels in the photos, however, with a little craftiness, I could probably put together something that would be visually appealing.

This question brings to mind - what materials to use? Are there any pre-made acoustic panels that already have 'designs' on them available anywhere? I've read a lot of the info in this section, and from that I've learned that there are quite a few different options out there (fiberglass, cotton, etc.).

I might rather look into some pre-made panels, as I'm not sure just how my woodworking skills (or lack thereof) would factor in this equation.

I'd be better off building my own coffin than to try and hang something up that I totally butchered, even as simple as a standard frame.

 

[Halon451]

That's a tough space due to lack of corners and non-symmetric layout. The one thing I see to do is to treat directly behind each speaker to deal with boundary/speaker issues.

Also, if you can get the seating away from the back wall a bit that will help a lot. Right against a wall you're getting tons of bass buildup by being next to a boundary. That also creates a place behind the couch on the floor for some broadband treatments that will not be seen a lot - increasing WAF.

Lastly, if you can treat on the rear wall directly behind your head, that will also minimize some of the bass buildup issues and provide some general decay time control in the room.

Bryan

Indeed it is a tough space. Builders definitely didn't take into account proper acoustics when designing homes (or should I say normally... don't).

The picture is perhaps a bit misleading - there isn't much area between the entertainment center and the couch - there really isn't enough room to move the couch away from the wall, and due to windows and doors, and the other side open to the dining room, it really leaves two options, one of which is shown, the other of which is the exact inverse.

Oh, to have a dedicated symmetrical HT room... and no WAF.

 

[Glenn Kuras]

This question brings to mind - what materials to use? Are there any pre-made acoustic panels that already have 'designs' on them available anywhere? I've read a lot of the info in this section, and from that I've learned that there are quite a few different options out there (fiberglass, cotton, etc.).

Guilford of Maine comes in all kinds of design patterns and I HIGHLY recommend sticking with that fabric seeing how picky the wife might be.

Start your search here
http://samplecenter.guilfordofmaine.com/servlet/Search
Under Quick Search put in the following style numbers under "style"
2318
2317
3903
3554
3903
2316

Any of those following styles can be made into acoustics products.

Glenn

 

[Halon451]

Thanks Glenn - I guess I figured out soon after I posted my last that I could just as well go into a local arts and crafts store (JoAnnes or Michaels) and find a suitable fabric covering, as long as it breathes enough to work in this application. The fabrics shown in your suggestions are fantastic by the way, I think I could totally win her over with those!

But the filler material inside - the stuff that actually does the job - is this material that I could find at my local Home Depot?

 

[Glenn Kuras]

No finding mineral wool or rigid fiberglass (the stuff inside ) can be found at places like SPI (http://www.spi-co.com/).

There are also places online you can buy it, but finding it local will save you a ton in shipping.

Thanks Glenn - I guess I figured out soon after I posted my last that I could just as well go into a local arts and crafts store (JoAnnes or Michaels) and find a suitable fabric covering, as long as it breathes enough to work in this application. The fabrics shown in your suggestions are fantastic by the way, I think I could totally win her over with those!

Sure you can go down to JoAnnes and find some fabric, but TRULY the GOM fabric is top of line stuff. Take it from a guy that is not RICH, IT IS WORTH THE INVESTMENT.

Glenn

 

[Halon451]

Back to the issue of placement - providing I find a suitable design that the wife will approve of - I went through a website that had a wizard that took my room measurements, construction materials, etc. and suggested a number of panels that would reduce reflections to an acceptable level.

This website suggested 19 friggin' panels... uh, not a chance.

So, the post above suggested a few ideas, such as behind the front mains, and of course behind the couch since most of the sound will be directed that way, and the couch is so near to the wall, unable to be moved out because of room size limitations.

Would this be a good place to start? Would it lead to noticeable improvements for say, something like this? (Proposed acoustic panels highlighted in yellow). I'm afraid this may be all I can swing past the wife.

 

[bpape]

That's a good start, I'd add a 3rd one behind the couch so it's behind the prime seat.

As for the layout, I understand there isn't a lot of room. I just want you to be realistic and understand that you're not going to fix your bass problem as long as you're sitting right against a wall. You can help it some but it will always be boomy right next to a boundary like that.

Bryan

 

[Halon451]

I do understand - there is a degree of unsatisfactory performance that I am going to more or less have to live with until I can relocate my system to a better environment. I guess the point is to try and manage it the best I can for now, and wait for the wife to smile and stick her thumbs up to the idea of turning that extra space (converted garage) to a dedicated Home Theater.

Ah, it's nice to dream...

I appreciate all the advice!

 

[Glenn Kuras]

I do understand - there is a degree of unsatisfactory performance that I am going to more or less have to live with until I can relocate my system to a better environment. I guess the point is to try and manage it the best I can for now, and wait for the wife to smile and stick her thumbs up to the idea of turning that extra space (converted garage) to a dedicated Home Theater.

Ah, it's nice to dream...

I appreciate all the advice!

The following will do nothing for the sound but a great selling tool for the wife to see things your way.

Glenn

 

[Halon451]

LOL - good one! What's the NRC of a typical flower arrangement like that? Do you have a waterfall plot of any kind?

 

[bpape]

Actually, I think it's more of a diffusor...

As for the 'doing what you can', hitting the wall behind your head and behind the speakers is about all you can do in that room and it will certainly help some.

Bryan

 

[Halon451]

Great - I'll start with a few panels in these key locations and see how it goes.

Thanks a ton for the input guys.

 

[Glenn Kuras]

Great - I'll start with a few panels in these key locations and see how it goes.

Thanks a ton for the input guys.

Halon,
I want to thank you for MAKING ME THINK!! After reading your post about the pattern thing it got me thinking "why not just offer that as one of the fabrics to our product line?". Well we just put the new product page up for the GIK 242 Elite (http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_242_elite.html) and added 3 of the designer fabrics from GOM. Here is what the patterns look like.

[



Hoping to add those patterns to all the other products real soon.

Glenn

 

[evilkat]

Would it not be better to hit the front corners first before you treat the wall immediately behind your front speakers??

 

[Halon451]

Halon,
I want to thank you for MAKING ME THINK!! After reading your post about the pattern thing it got me thinking "why not just offer that as one of the fabrics to our product line?". Well we just put the new product page up for the GIK 242 Elite (http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_242_elite.html) and added 3 of the designer fabrics from GOM. Here is what the patterns look like.

[



Hoping to add those patterns to all the other products real soon.

Glenn

Hey, the WAF is a powerful force in this industry, as I am gathering from my time here on this forum (and indeed as it has been in my own house). That's a great move in my opinion Glenn, the more manufacturers take into account the Wife Acceptance Factor, the better they'll be able to sell them to those husbands that would otherwise pass up on the gear because the wife simply won't allow it!

 

[bpape]

Would it not be better to hit the front corners first before you treat the wall immediately behind your front speakers??

Sure - but the problem is that he doesn't have any vertical corners with the open hall and the doors. I don't want to do the front left without the front right to maintain good horizontal symmetry in the front soundstage.

Bryan