Please help me save some $$$$ on my cables.

C

couch000

Enthusiast
After reading some of the threads on here I have learned that I may have spent waaaay too much on my cables for my HT. I've always been told to buy the best cables you can to guarantee good audio/video so I went with Monster and probably spent too much.

Can you guys make some suggestions on some alternatives to the cables I bought? I would really appreciate it. My wife wants a cabinet to put the tv on and hide all the components and the one she wants is about twice as much as we wanted to spend but is about the only one that will work that looks good. If I can save some money on my cables I can probably get the cabinet too. :)

Heres the list:

1- Monster Power Home Theatre Power Center Stage 1 for "Clean Power".
2- Monster Precision HDMI 700 HD 4.95 Gbps
1- Nexxtech Digital Optical Cable
1- Nexxtech Digital Coax Audio Cable

The 2 HDMI cables may eventually go in the wall if we ever mount the tv on the wall so not sure if I need better shielded cables for those.

So can you guys recommend comparable cables to me that might be less expensive? Again, I really appreciate it.
 
B

Bluesmoke

Audioholic Chief
monoprice.com

Get all your cables from there.
 
C

couch000

Enthusiast
monoprice.com

Get all your cables from there.
Thanks. I've been looking at their site and will probably place an order tomorrow. I just want to make sure I get the bandwidth and everything I need from the cables I order. I guess I'll just call them up tomorrow and let them help me. I'm always worried that I'll get the wrong thing.

It looks like I can spend about $60 for all my cable needs. Geez, I spent about six times that at CC. Dooooh!

Looks like that TV/Audio stand just came into reach. At least the wife will be happy. Isn't that what it's all about? :)
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks. I've been looking at their site and will probably place an order tomorrow. I just want to make sure I get the bandwidth and everything I need from the cables I order. I guess I'll just call them up tomorrow and let them help me. I'm always worried that I'll get the wrong thing.

It looks like I can spend about $60 for all my cable needs. Geez, I spent about six times that at CC. Dooooh!

Looks like that TV/Audio stand just came into reach. At least the wife will be happy. Isn't that what it's all about? :)
Yes, Monster is the cheaper of the expensive cables, some going to 5 digits.:D

How long will that HDMI cable be? With them, length is important. In any event, monoprice should have the gauge number, get the one with 24ga.

Hope you can get your money back from CC.
 
G

Gasman

Senior Audioholic
I just want to make sure I get the bandwidth and everything I need from the cables I order.
Just a marketing plot, for customers to spend unkowingly.
Any normal cable run (under ~30 feet), can get away with normal cables (this includes HDMI, Optical, Digital coax, etc..).
Also look on eBay (just get the buy it now items), also check http://www.bluejeanscable.com/

To give an example; I spent something like 9.00 for 2x HDMI 3 foot cables, that have all the alloted bandwidth the cable and device need. Other than for looks of a cable, you should not spend more than ~25.00 for a 6 foot HDMI cable.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I have recommended Monoprice and Bluejeans to folks before, but I am going to stop doing that. I am pretty against internet sales. People complain about Wal-mart taking jobs away from people so they can sell their inventory at lower prices, what do you think the internet sales are doing? Even the giant Wal-mart is hurt by internet sales. I am not saying that you should spend big bucks on cables from Monster or Audioquest, but maybe get your cables from Radioshack, or by the less expensive AR cables or Belkin Pure AV.

People seem to think only in short term, "if I get the cheapest thing now, that helps me". Yeah, sure it helps now, but think a few years ahead when you or others you know can't find a good job because eveyone buys the absolute cheapest products off the internet.

Maybe I am just ranting, maybe I am even wrong. That is just how I view internet sales.;)
 
jagxtype

jagxtype

Audioholic
i would give my money to ALMOST anybody except wal mart. I hate wal mart with an undying passion. The economy is going to do what it wants to do anyhow. Its self regulating to the point where if the jobs begin to disappear the market for frugal items will also disappear and will then soon balance back out. Its a viscous cycle. Sorry...didnt mean to derail.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
People seem to think only in short term, "if I get the cheapest thing now, that helps me". Yeah, sure it helps now, but think a few years ahead when you or others you know can't find a good job because eveyone buys the absolute cheapest products off the internet.
I'm sorry- does this mean we should reinstate Standard Oil? How about we recompile the old AT&T from the Baby Bells? We could also force GM/Ford/Chrysler to rehire all of their fired workers for life @ full salary and benefits- the same with the airlines. Should we reopen the closed steel mines/processing plants of western Pennsylvania? Perhaps we can construct a bailout for every dot-com that went out of business in 2001-2003... all in the name of giving jobs back to people.

I could write a 10 page essay on how your understanding of basic economics is incredibly incorrect- although your opinion is your opinion and you're totally entitled to it. Businesses grow and die based on their ability to remain competitive and offer the lowest prices to consumers (isn't that the name of the game???). When a business or a business model can no longer offer low prices and remain economically viable (e.g. make a profit) it will lose out to competitors. Internet sellers of cable are not doing anything illegal by selling cables for cheaper, they've just decided not to jack up their prices to ridiculous levels in order to pad their profit margins. If you really want to be self-righteous, then you'd go ahead and boycott places like best buy and high end electronics stores who jack prices up to exorbitant levels to intentionally take advantage of customers.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I never said that internet sales of cables where "illegal". I don't blame internet sales, I blame consumers that demand cheap products. We buy the crappiest stuff in the world. Our cars suck in comparison to other countries.
 
M

m_vanmeter

Full Audioholic
to add fuel to the fire...

I don't demand the lowest price......I demand not to get ripped off with 300% to over 1000% mark-up on retail goods. Brick and mortar stores now have two options, continue to do business as usual - depending on the ignorance of the buyer as to the true cost of the goods sold.......or......... modernize and pass thru products with a reasonable overhead and profit markup and let the customer decide whether "instant gratification" is worth the week to 10 day delay of ordering the item on the internet.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
I never said that internet sales of cables where "illegal". I don't blame internet sales, I blame consumers that demand cheap products. We buy the crappiest stuff in the world. Our cars suck in comparison to other countries.
You are confusing two completely different concepts- consumer demand and manufacturing supply to meet that demand.

First, by "our cars" I'll assume you're referring to American car companies... in that case I will absolutely agree that American owned car companies make some of the crappiest cars in the world. This is more of a function, however, of their awful management and complete misunderstanding of consumer needs than it is of consumer behavior. How can you blame the poor manufacturing of a company on the desire of consumers to have an affordable car??? Toyota, who makes most of their US sold cars in this country, makes fantastic automobiles that are very affordable. Is it really the consumers fault that GM & ford cannot figure out their own problems?

To your point about consumers demanding cheaper products- so what??? This is the basis of competition and it is the reason why the Japanese car companies became so successful in the 70s & 80s. It is basic economics that holding quality (or even perceived quality) the same a consumer will always buy more of a product that costs less than its more expensive substitute. Consumers should not support a company that wants to charge them more for a product when there's no market reason for doing so. In the case of speaker cable, why shouldn't a consumer be able to buy a product (blue jeans or monoprice) that provides the exact same quality as a monster cable for 1/5 of the cost. How is that bad for the world?

Yes- many people buy "crap" as you say... but who are you or I to judge what crap is.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
to add fuel to the fire...

I don't demand the lowest price......I demand not to get ripped off with 300% to over 1000% mark-up on retail goods. Brick and mortar stores now have two options, continue to do business as usual - depending on the ignorance of the buyer as to the true cost of the goods sold.......or......... modernize and pass thru products with a reasonable overhead and profit markup and let the customer decide whether "instant gratification" is worth the week to 10 day delay of ordering the item on the internet.
And they will choose the second option 9 times out of 10 because for the most part consumers are stupid- There's a reason Bose is still in business. PT Barnum was correct about a sucker being born every minute.....
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
If a consumer demands a product at a cheaper price, the company has to find a way to provide the product at a lower cost. The company outsources to a foreign manufacturer or moves operations to another country and also opens an internet direct store to sell their products at a lower cost. The company's profits incline after laying off American workers and selling the product to consumers at a higher cost than what a B&M store pays for the product in bulk. Less consumers purchase from the B&M store which employs American workers. Some B&M stores are closed down and B&M store employees are laid off. In turn some new employees are hired at distribution and shipping centers, some employees are hired as phone customer service reps, and some more postal carriers are hired as well, but they don't equate to the jobs lost to those now forced to seek employment at another retail B&M store or a food service job. The middle class dwindles to lower class, meanwhile the rich get richer, and the world economy balances.

You are right, the economy does balance. The standard of living in the US is among the highest in the world, and the largest middle class. Other parts of the world, third world countries, have extremely low standards of living. The world economy is balancing, the US lowers its standards and other countries standard's rise.

I know its my opinion, but it isn't entirely possible to accurately predict what will happen.
 
M

mojo_13

Audioholic
All of you seem pretty educated in the field of economics but I'm just gonna throw this out there. If our standard of living keeps going down then we as a society won't be buying as many products and thus the company's profits will go down. So wouldnt it be in there best interests to keep as much money in the economy as possible?
 
K

KurtBJC

Audioholic
I have recommended Monoprice and Bluejeans to folks before, but I am going to stop doing that. I am pretty against internet sales. People complain about Wal-mart taking jobs away from people so they can sell their inventory at lower prices, what do you think the internet sales are doing? Even the giant Wal-mart is hurt by internet sales. I am not saying that you should spend big bucks on cables from Monster or Audioquest, but maybe get your cables from Radioshack, or by the less expensive AR cables or Belkin Pure AV.
Hi; Kurt from Blue Jeans Cable here. Not to start a fight or anything, but: let me address this, because it is a view we do run into from time to time and I think there are some points to be made.

First, let me talk about taking jobs away from Americans.

We are a cable assembly house. My wife and I went into this business a few years back, and it expanded past all expectation. We now employ seven people full-time in addition to ourselves; those are American workers, making good living wages (much better than they'd be making at Wal-Mart, for whom you express some sympathy here), with health and pension benefits. All in all, that's nine American workers employed gainfully.

Do we take business from Wal-Mart? I hope we do. If we don't compete on a basis that allows us to make money, all nine of us go home unemployed and look for something else to do. "Welcome to Wal-Mart!"

Why are things cheaper on the Internet? That's a complicated question with a complicated answer. But it's not that my wife and I are vicious predators, out victimizing the helpless Wal-Marts of the world (who, by the way, sell things on the Internet, too). It has a great deal to do with things like the availability of information; the fact that a competitor is always just a couple of clicks away; the absence of expensive retail packaging; and the enormous range of choices available to the customer.

We try very hard to avoid using offshore sources. We buy most of our cable in the US, from Belden, where more American workers earning more American wages and benefits are employed. We buy so much of it, in fact, that we are beginning to be a tiny blip on their income statement--and that's a very big company.

Now, if you do decide to go with one of those high-priced made-in-China brands (or, for that matter, one of those low-priced made-in-China brands), are you helping American workers? I guess that somebody may have a job at a Wal-Mart or a Radio Shack somewhere because of cable sales, but those companies are huge "exporters" of manufacturing jobs to China. Instead of American workers manufacturing cable, and American workers connectorizing it, you've got an all-Chinese supply chain up until the product gets to the US; and then all that American workers do is unpack it from the container, ship it to stores, stock shelves and take payment.

We carry Chinese product, too; but unlike a Wal-Mart which is content to have a mega-store filled with almost nothing but Chinese goods, we actually try to employ our people in Seattle, and keep people employed in Kentucky and Indiana manufacturing our bulk cable for us. We are actually working on connectors--I have prototypes on my desk right now--that will enable us to bring HDMI cable assembly jobs to the US instead of farming all of that work out to China. We have the only HDMI cable which is actually primarily made-in-America, despite the fact that someone with a lot more money (and there are plenty of those in the AV cable business!) would have had a much easier time with the difficulties of bringing that sort of product to the market than we have. We did it because we believe wholeheartedly, deeply, in the quality and strength of American manufacturing and in keeping jobs here.

In sum: we are employing people in America to manufacture product here. We are buying as much product from American suppliers as we can find customers to sell it to. We are doing this in a market where almost nothing on any retail store shelf anywhere is made in America, so that practically every dollar of product we sell is a dollar taken out of the Chinese column and put in the U.S. column. Are we really undermining the US economy, taking jobs away from Americans? If we are, we are choosing a very odd way of going about it.

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
All of you seem pretty educated in the field of economics but I'm just gonna throw this out there. If our standard of living keeps going down then we as a society won't be buying as many products and thus the company's profits will go down. So wouldnt it be in there best interests to keep as much money in the economy as possible?
First, That's based on the assumption that standard of living is going down... which for society as a whole in the United States it is not- remember the uber-rich more than offset the lowest rung poor. As long as people are making money they will be consuming products and will be contributing towards the success of companies.

Second, you're assuming that companies don't adapt to change. When a country's economy is doing poorly people still consume goods- in fact, there's an entire set of goods (interestingly named inferior goods) that people will consume more of as their income falls. Frozen dinners and instant noodles are two examples of these types of goods. Therefore, during a recession a company will adapt to sell more inferior goods and scale back on their production of "normal goods" (e.g. goods which people buy more of as their income rises). This part of economics can be interpolated to say that when a recession occurs, average people will adjust their buying habits to buy cheaper life staples (e.g. food, transportation, clothing), less "frills" (e.g. nights out, DVDs, video games), and even less luxury goods (expensive cars, european vacations). Smart companies recognize this and adjust their production levels as well as their overhead costs (e.g. layoffs) to meet this type of demand.

Finally, not sure what you mean by keeping money in the economy, but if you're referring to becoming to protectionist, raising import tariffs, outlawing outsourcing, and generally acting like Lou Dobbs then you'll actually cause more harm on the economy than good. Free trade has been the greatest economic force for advancing the US as well as dozens of other countries around the world. The concept of free trade is what allows consumers to afford their clothing, have choices for cars, and for 3rd world countries to buy cheap food from non-European countries (the EU farm treaties are directly responsible for a portion of African famine and poverty). The biggest pro and con to a free market is that it rights itself in the end- with the downside being that the correction can be painful and take more time than you want. In my opinion, the two best things that American consumers can do for their economy and for themselves is to 1) Spend money in a responsible way- meaning don't overextend themselves, and 2) Save money for their futures. Obviously, these two are a bit contradictory but the key is to find balance.

Sorry for the long drawn-out explanation.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
Hi; Kurt from Blue Jeans Cable here. Not to start a fight or anything, but: let me address this, because it is a view we do run into from time to time and I think there are some points to be made.

First, let me talk about taking jobs away from Americans.

We are a cable assembly house. My wife and I went into this business a few years back, and it expanded past all expectation. We now employ seven people full-time in addition to ourselves; those are American workers, making good living wages (much better than they'd be making at Wal-Mart, for whom you express some sympathy here), with health and pension benefits. All in all, that's nine American workers employed gainfully.

Do we take business from Wal-Mart? I hope we do. If we don't compete on a basis that allows us to make money, all nine of us go home unemployed and look for something else to do. "Welcome to Wal-Mart!"

Why are things cheaper on the Internet? That's a complicated question with a complicated answer. But it's not that my wife and I are vicious predators, out victimizing the helpless Wal-Marts of the world (who, by the way, sell things on the Internet, too). It has a great deal to do with things like the availability of information; the fact that a competitor is always just a couple of clicks away; the absence of expensive retail packaging; and the enormous range of choices available to the customer.

We try very hard to avoid using offshore sources. We buy most of our cable in the US, from Belden, where more American workers earning more American wages and benefits are employed. We buy so much of it, in fact, that we are beginning to be a tiny blip on their income statement--and that's a very big company.

Now, if you do decide to go with one of those high-priced made-in-China brands (or, for that matter, one of those low-priced made-in-China brands), are you helping American workers? I guess that somebody may have a job at a Wal-Mart or a Radio Shack somewhere because of cable sales, but those companies are huge "exporters" of manufacturing jobs to China. Instead of American workers manufacturing cable, and American workers connectorizing it, you've got an all-Chinese supply chain up until the product gets to the US; and then all that American workers do is unpack it from the container, ship it to stores, stock shelves and take payment.

We carry Chinese product, too; but unlike a Wal-Mart which is content to have a mega-store filled with almost nothing but Chinese goods, we actually try to employ our people in Seattle, and keep people employed in Kentucky and Indiana manufacturing our bulk cable for us. We are actually working on connectors--I have prototypes on my desk right now--that will enable us to bring HDMI cable assembly jobs to the US instead of farming all of that work out to China. We have the only HDMI cable which is actually primarily made-in-America, despite the fact that someone with a lot more money (and there are plenty of those in the AV cable business!) would have had a much easier time with the difficulties of bringing that sort of product to the market than we have. We did it because we believe wholeheartedly, deeply, in the quality and strength of American manufacturing and in keeping jobs here.

In sum: we are employing people in America to manufacture product here. We are buying as much product from American suppliers as we can find customers to sell it to. We are doing this in a market where almost nothing on any retail store shelf anywhere is made in America, so that practically every dollar of product we sell is a dollar taken out of the Chinese column and put in the U.S. column. Are we really undermining the US economy, taking jobs away from Americans? If we are, we are choosing a very odd way of going about it.

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable
Thank you. That was an incredibly useful post.
 
C

couch000

Enthusiast
Hey guys. Thanks for all the replies; didn't mean to start a fight or anything about Americans losing jobs, etc. Pretty good discussion though because this goes deeper than just cables.

I look at it a couple different ways. I want to get the best quality product for the best price. I don't think that is asking a whole lot. I think that's what everyone is looking for actually. If I can get comparable cables for 20% of the cost of Monster cables then why shouldn't I? Obviously Monster is doing just fine if they continue to sell their cables at a huge markup. Monster has done a great job marketing to consumers like me who think I have to spend the extra $$$ on their product when in fact I don't. I like to consider myself fairly well-educated when it comes to things and that's why I've done my research and have decided to take my cables back and get a refund and order from monoprice.com.

The other side of the coin is that cable houses like Blue Jeans Cable and Monoprice.com probably "typically" sell to installers of telephone systems, computer systems, home theatre systems, etc. and not the general public, with the exception of people like me (now), and you guys who are extremely knowledgeable about all this. The installers have to make money on their installations because I would say 80% of their profit comes from the labor for the installation. If they were paying huge "Monster" prices for their cable they wouldn't be able to make any money on their installations and thus would lose their jobs.

Oh, and the other thing is that this allows me to purchase a nice TV/HT stand from a local business that wouldn't otherwise have my business. :)

Cheers,
Couch
 
G

Gasman

Senior Audioholic
Excellent perspectives from both Kurt & Couch.
Thank you very much for the pratical business standpoint, read.

Personally, I buy bulk Belden from a U.S. comapany, and make my own cables.
But now with the insight from Kurt, LOL, I may just have to give Blue Jeans my business (on-line of course, LOL).;):)

Thanks.
Brian
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
First, I am not here to start fights.:)

Second, I am not an advocate of Wal-Mart.

Third, while I realize that Blue Jeans Cable is a small company, seven employees isn't really that many people, but I see your point. I guess I am just speaking in frustration because I can't seem to find a decent job (or any job at the moment).

I don't have a fourth.:D

Wait, yes I do. Monoprice, I imagine their cables are Chinese. Functional, but cheap. I would not advocate them.
 

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