Why do some speakers sound like poopie when in direct mode??

[adwilk]

I have about 8 pair of speakers, all different shapes sizes from my gamers to some that came with shelf systems. Even a couple buddies got in on the experiment. We put the microphone away, set up just normal run of the mill av gear, onkyo AVR, Ipod, samsung dvd for cd's and you get the point. Untreated large room, speakers about 8 feet apart on the floor or 32" stands.. blah blah blah...

The point was just to see which ones we thought sounded best using a 2.1 setup with a decent sub. seeing if our untrained ears could really pick up some major differences. Obviously, they did. We all had our favs for different genres and source...

SO, what makes some speakers sound good for specific types of music and really bad for others?

Next point. The ones we thought sounded really versatile and pretty good using amp eq and what not with sub sounded like arse on direct mode and surprisingly some of the cheaper setups did better here. One of the shelf systems really got me thinking.. they honestly sounded good.

I will say this... My buddy brought over his klipsch RB 35's and i ordered a pair today. Very impressed with the versatility and dynamic ability from any source.. almost too revealing but i have used MB Quart components in my vehicles for the past 5 years.. I like it bright... perhaps why i didnt like direct?


Any of this make any sense?

 

[Haoleb]

Your tastes in sound probably goes with what your used to hearing. And probably some of the speakers were just crap. Im used to listening to a relatively smooth and flat sound without bass boost or loudness so thats the kind of sound i prefer. If you someone who is used to listening to the stereo in a civic with a trunk full of subwoofers your probably going to want that in everything you hear.

Am i making any sense?

 

[kenhoeve]

Your tastes in sound probably goes with what your used to hearing.

Bingo. I hadn't had a decent 2.1 setup in several years when I set up my 6.1 system with my Denon so I was unbiased. I spent a lot of time switching back and forth between regular 2ch, pure direct, and regular 6ch on select tracks. IMO the dynamic range and sensitivity in direct was unbeatable, but others who listen always prefer the 6ch. It seems they prefer the illusion that being surrounded by sound is better, but I have no doubt that direct is by far the more accurate reproduction. YMMV.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I use direct mode exclusively, because it minimizes the amount of circuitry that the signal has to pass through. This probably influences my choice of speakers.

 

[adwilk]

Ok, i get all that... i know what direct is and does, but even without the sub "some" speakers sounded much better, and a lot more "airy" when in stereo mode... What is the receiver doing when it passes through stereo with sub disabled... that would be different than direct? I get that the signal passes through less stuff, but what is that signal picking up when run through in stereo, it made most of the cheaper speakers sound better.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Ok, i get all that... i know what direct is and does, but even without the sub "some" speakers sounded much better, and a lot more "airy" when in stereo mode... What is the receiver doing when it passes through stereo with sub disabled... that would be different than direct? I get that the signal passes through less stuff, but what is that signal picking up when run through in stereo, it made most of the cheaper speakers sound better.

Direct mode bypasses all tone controls/equalization, processing, etc. I guess some speakers benefit from some of those things.

 

[Highlander]

I use direct mode exclusively, because it minimizes the amount of circuitry that the signal has to pass through.

Direct mode bypasses all tone controls/equalization, processing, etc...

Can you discern any difference in sound quality with Direct mode engaged compared to disengaged but without EQ/processing etc being applied, i.e. Straight?

 

[fmw]

Honestly, I don't even know what "direct mode" means but I do agree with haoleb. The reason high end equipment manufacturers want you to believe there is a "break in period" for equipment is that they want you to get accustomed to the sound. Familarily is an important aspect of the way we hear audio.

I listen mostly to acoustic jazz and classical music (even though I play digital instruments) and my choice of speakers and their setup is aimed at reproducing those as believably as practical. If I listened to hip hop (only at street intersections) I would probably want something different.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I use direct mode exclusively, because it minimizes the amount of circuitry that the signal has to pass through. This probably influences my choice of speakers.

Same here. Pure Direct Stereo Mode is great when you can do without subwoofers when listening to music. I thought it was pretty funny that the $20,000 Mark Levinson Pre-Pro doesn't even have speaker type selection modes. I guess you only get one mode: full range pure direct mode.
And if you want Video Circuits, throw down another $24,000 for the Video Processor because the other $20,000 Pre-Pro only has the Audio Circuits.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Can you discern any difference in sound quality with Direct mode engaged compared to disengaged but without EQ/processing etc being applied, i.e. Straight?

I did that about a month ago at a local HT store using the Denon 4308 & DefTech BP7001 & the Klipsch F83 towers. When you hit the Pure Direct button, all the lights go turn OFF as if the receiver had been turned off. I could not hear a difference, but I was not at home either. The acoustics and setup at the store probably made it difficult for me to compare.

When I had the Harman Kardon AVR247 (& NHT speakers), I compared the Direct mode with the regular Stereo mode with NO Equalization or Tone controls. The Direct Mode just sounded clearer to me.

 

[mouettus]

I might be the only one who thinks this way here but for me, PureDirect blows. So it all comes down to taste. I like my music to be vibrant, to give me feelings, goosebumps. So you might want to add a little treble for more detail accentuation and a little more bass to make your chest pound. I'm not that 2x12" subs civic guy, but I like my music to be fun; not just go through my ears. I'm a metal/rock guy, so I like voices to be clear, guitar to vibrate (great mid-bass is very important for me), and those drum kicks to feel like I'm besides my brother-in-law playing drums. I know what those instruments sound live. I just want to feel the same way while listening to my audio system. And I don't see that happening with PureDirect enabled... sorry.

Another thing is that every single one of your music albums is recorded in a different studio (almost) with different room acoustics. So those guys equalize it to their taste all the time. You have to play with it until you reach satisfaction. For instance, I'm always boosting the 100/200khz-ish and the 10khz settings.

Keep in mind that I respect people who likes it. Just giving my opinion here. And I also think that age and musical taste has something to do in the equation as well

 

[Highlander]

Pure Direct Stereo Mode is great when you can do without subwoofers when listening to music.

It is, but let us consider who "can do without subwoofers when listening to music".

1. The overwhelming majority of speakers are not truly full-range and so subwoofer(s) are inevitably used to 'fill-in' for the deficiencies of the mains;
2. For the very small minority that do own truly full-range speakers, unless they have perfect room acoustics - pretty much an impossibility - subwoofer(s), EQ and/or room treatment is generally recommended to smooth out the frequency response;
3. Whilst a Pure Direct or equivalent mode does maximise signal purity by minimising the signal path, I'd be amazed if someone could consistently hear an improvement under controlled conditions compare to using Straight ;

It seems to me that using subwoofers, properly sited and adjusted, will yield a more desireable quality of music for 99.9% of folk than a Pure Direct or equivalent mode without subwoofers.

Course, could just be me.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...I might be the only one who thinks this way here but for me, PureDirect blows. So it all comes down to taste...Keep in mind that I respect people who likes it. Just giving my opinion here.

I guess that's why they made EQ & Tone Controls & DSPs, etc.
Some people like them, some don't. Some rooms need them, some don't.
Gotta please everyone.

 

[mouettus]

3. Whilst a Pure Direct or equivalent mode does maximise signal purity by minimising the signal path, I'd be amazed if someone could consistently hear an improvement under controlled conditions compare to using Straight ;

WHAM! Case is closed!

BUT! If you're the type of guy that raises its wires from the floor for whatever reason, I think you're at the point of hearing very small differences. And at that point, to me, it's not just a hobby, its obsession! Give me and my home depot 12 gauge wires a break! haha

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It is, but let us consider who "can do without subwoofers when listening to music".

It seems to me that using subwoofers, properly sited and adjusted, will yield a more desireable quality of music for 99.9% of folk than a Pure Direct or equivalent mode without subwoofers.

Yeah, why not?
How about Pure Direct + Subwoofer?

 

[kenhoeve]

I might be the only one who thinks this way here but for me, PureDirect blows. So it all comes down to taste. I like my music to be vibrant, to give me feelings, goosebumps. So you might want to add a little treble for more detail accentuation and a little more bass to make your chest pound.

I know where you're coming from, you appreciate a sonic and tactile experience. I think in regard to direct/no direct, amp and speaker choice is a big deal. If you have enough headroom with the amp, direct will give you the experience you crave. Direct mode being usually two speakers with a 5/6.1 setup, I think it's a simple matter of getting the db's you want and that takes a big amp.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Can you discern any difference in sound quality with Direct mode engaged compared to disengaged but without EQ/processing etc being applied, i.e. Straight?

Yes. With direct mode off, there is a slight hiss (detectable when music is not playing.) With direct mode on, silence is dead silence.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Same here. Pure Direct Stereo Mode is great when you can do without subwoofers when listening to music.

I have started using a sub for music again, but I still use direct mode. I merely have to use the speaker-level connection.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have started using a sub for music again, but I still use direct mode. I merely have to use the speaker-level connection.

I believe I'm about to do the same (DefTech Trinity) for music. I'll see how that affects the music experience.
BTW, that Percussion CD you recommended was pretty good.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

BTW, that Percussion CD you recommended was pretty good.

Glad you like it. It is one of my favorites.