RX-V3800 and 7.1 problem?

[Jacksmyname]

Hi all.
I have a Yamaha RX-V3800 which I'm very pleased with. However, I'm having a problem that I can't figure out.
Over the last week and a half, I installed four surround speakers; two sides and two rears, so I now have a complete 7.1 system.
I did the setup on the Yammie, all speakers are detected. Rears are set to smallx2. Extended surround is set to auto.
Problem: When playing a soundtrack with PLIIex, whether a tv broadcast or DVD, everthing works fine. I get sound from all speakers.
But when I play anything with DD, DD+, DTS, TrueHD, etc., I get no sound from the rear surrounds. When using Cinema DSP modes on those soundtracks, I still get no sound from the rears. According to the manual, these modes should work with the above mentioned soundtracks.
It's like the receiver thinks I don't have rear surrounds.
I have a feeling I have a bad unit, but want to make sure I'm not missing something.
Thanks in advance.

Jack

 

[jcPanny]

Rear surround channels

Most source material including HD is 5.1. The Dolby PLIIex and DTS NEO:6 modes are specifically designed to add the rear surround chanels to a 5.1 audio source. If you set it to this mode, your receiver will probably remember the setting next time your watch a DVD, TV etc.

It sounds like the Yamaha DSP modes are adding effect to the 5.1 audio track but are not adding the rear surround channels.

 

[GlocksRock]

You have to press the parameter button on your remote and go through each DSP setting that you want changed, and set the surrond mode to PLIIx Movie, or whatever decoder you want to use for each mode. It used to be easier to select which decoder you wanted to use on my old RX-V1600, you just pressed the ext. surround button, but now you have to change it with the parameter button. I find that PLIIx Movie works best for everything, but if you use PLIIx music, it sends most of the audio to the left and right speakers, and uses the center channel less, so it's better suited for music, but pretty much everything else is better with the movie setting. And since you have a 7.1 setup, use PLIIx, not the ES/EX decoder, since PLIIx creates a stereo surround back. Also, don't forget that the Memory Guard feature has to be turned off before you can make this change.

 

[Jacksmyname]

Thanks for the replies, guys.
I called Yamaha this morning, and sure enough it was my error. Everything is working fine now.
Thanks again.

 

[GlocksRock]

Thanks for the replies, guys.
I called Yamaha this morning, and sure enough it was my error. Everything is working fine now.
Thanks again.

What exactly did they tell you?

 

[Jacksmyname]

What exactly did they tell you?

He walked me through the GUI menu for selecting the decoder, etc. Pretty much how you explained it.

 

[MDS]

I find that PLIIx Movie works best for everything, but if you use PLIIx music, it sends most of the audio to the left and right speakers, and uses the center channel less, so it's better suited for music, but pretty much everything else is better with the movie setting.

By default that is the difference between Music and Movie mode but I like the Music mode better because you can adjust the center width and dimension (move the soundfield forward or backward). I find that it just works better for me than Movie mode.

 

[GlocksRock]

After some more playing with it last night, I'm sadded to find that there seems to be no way to apply PLIIx decoding to a 5.1 source using the Cinema DSP modes. You were easily able to do this with the RX-V1600, I don't know why they don't allow for it in the newer models. The PLIIx decoder gets used when the movie is 5.1 EX or dts ES, but only then. I think I'll mess with the PLIIx Music decoders parameters to see if I can find a setting I like better than the PLIIx movie.

 

[Jacksmyname]

After some more playing with it last night, I'm sadded to find that there seems to be no way to apply PLIIx decoding to a 5.1 source using the Cinema DSP modes. You were easily able to do this with the RX-V1600, I don't know why they don't allow for it in the newer models. The PLIIx decoder gets used when the movie is 5.1 EX or dts ES, but only then. I think I'll mess with the PLIIx Music decoders parameters to see if I can find a setting I like better than the PLIIx movie.

You have to do it in the GUI.
Manual setup>Sound>Extended Surround>PLIIxMovie or whatever you want to use. Next, go through the whole menu and look for all the settings that relate to surround decoders and extended surround. They default to auto. Change them to last (for last used). That seems to save the settings so you don't have to go into the GUI every time you turn the unit on. I just tried it here, turned the unit off then back on. Everything is working.
To apply, press the button labeled movie, which cycles through the different Cinema DSP modes as you keep pressing the button.

 

[GlocksRock]

The RX-V1800 doesn't have a GUI, but I did go through all the menus and set every option for Extended Surround to PLIIx, but there doesn't seem to be an option for setting extended surround in the cinema dsp modes. I do have everything set to last for the decoder, and like I said, when I play a movie that is DD 5.1 EX it turns the PLIIx decoder on, I don't think you can manually force it on for regular 5.1 tracks, unless I'm misisng something, I may call or email Yamaha about it, but I don't normally use the DSP modes, so I'm not too worried about it.

 

[Jacksmyname]

The RX-V1800 doesn't have a GUI, but I did go through all the menus and set every option for Extended Surround to PLIIx, but there doesn't seem to be an option for setting extended surround in the cinema dsp modes. I do have everything set to last for the decoder, and like I said, when I play a movie that is DD 5.1 EX it turns the PLIIx decoder on, I don't think you can manually force it on for regular 5.1 tracks, unless I'm misisng something, I may call or email Yamaha about it, but I don't normally use the DSP modes, so I'm not too worried about it.

I just downloaded the 1800 manual; I see what you mean by no GUI.
Only thing I can think of is to look for entries in your menus for extended surround, and, if you have them, set them also to "last" (this is in addition to setting decoder options to "last").
My sense is there must be a way for the settings on the 1800 to "stick".

 

[Jacksmyname]

Glock, more info:
You posted that you don't use the Cinema DSP modes, but that's what gives the full 7.1.
Here's how mine is set in the setup menu:
Stereo/surround>movie
Manual setup>sound>Extended surround>PLIIx Movie
Manual setup>Option>decode mode>last
Manual setup>Option>extended surround>last
Now, when I have a soundtrack that displays PLII while in surround decode on the receiver, typical from SD channels on my cable box, I got 7.1.
But if I was watching a channel that displayed Dolby Digital on the receiver (HBO HD for example), or a DVD, the only way to get 7.1 is to press the "movie" button on the remote. This is what activates the decoder on the receiver for DD, DD+, DTS, TrueHD, etc. soundtracks to get 7.1. The problem was getting it to "stick" after turning off the receiver. Changing the settings I mentioned to "last" made them stick. Now when I turn the unit on, my last used settings are used. If I want to change from, for example, adventure to sci-fi or spectacle, I press the movie button on the remote which cycles through the different Cinema DSP modes.
Hope I explaind this ok for you. It can be somewhat confusing.
BTW, we watched Lord Of The Rings-Return Of The King last nite. That disc has DD+ex5.1. The disc played 7.1 with the receiver in surround decode mode. I didn't have to use the Cinema DSP to get 7.1.
HTH

 

[GlocksRock]

You don't need the cinema dsp to get 7.1, I get that by using the surround decode mode and applying the PLIIx decoder to that. That way regardless of if I'm listening to a stereo source, or a 5.1 source, I get 7.1.

 

[Jacksmyname]

You don't need the cinema dsp to get 7.1, I get that by using the surround decode mode and applying the PLIIx decoder to that. That way regardless of if I'm listening to a stereo source, or a 5.1 source, I get 7.1.

Yes, same here. But if I'm playing a DD, DD+, DTS soundtrack, the surround decode mode button won't change to anything else. If I keep pressing that button, nothing happens. Had the same thing on my RX-V2700. That's when I use the "movie" button to apply the PLIIx decoder to get 7.1 from those tracks.
If you get a chance, try it. Play a DVD that has one of the soundtracks I mentioned.