Help: Comcast DVR to Denon AVR3808CI on HDMI

[solomr2]

Well, I don't know what the heck is wrong, but I can't seem to get the Comcast Motorola DVR to work with my Denon 3808 Receiver and my Samsung FP-T5084 Plasma over HDMI.

I can connect the DVR directly to my TV and that works fine over either HDMI or Component with no problems at all.

But when I connect my TV directly to the Denon, I can see the Denon logo in the display, but the image flashes and crackles and breaks up. If I connect my Comcast DVR to the Denon via HDMI and I assign it as instructed in the manual I can barely hear the sound, and it cuts out every few seconds, and no picture is displayed.

Has anyone got the Denon working with the Comcast Motorola DVR over HDMI?

Please share your tricks.

 

[solomr2]

Strange stuff...

I changed some things around and I got it working, sort of...

Initially, I had the HDMI cable going from my Comcast box to the HDMI-1 on the Denon, and from the Denon Monitor out to my HDMI in on my TV. That didn't work; both the audio and video was all screwed up.

So I connected the Comcoast box to HDMI-4 and both the audio and video are now working. However, the PQ is somewhat inferior to what I had when I was connected directly from the DVR to the TV; I can see more grain, and the colors are off a bit.

I guess I'm glad it's working, but the PQ degradations was not what I was expecting. Is there some adustments or setup I need to do on the Denon to improve PQ?

 

[solomr2]

Should I even ask what HDMI input to use on my Denon for the Xbox 360?

 

[Davemcc]

I can't answer your questions, but I don't want you to think you are being ignored. I just don't know. I can't see any reason why the Denon PQ would be worse than a direct connection. It's basically just a video pass-thru via HDMI, isn't it? No video processing in HDMI? Or is your output resolution set to a lower resolution?

 

[solomr2]

Hi Dave, thanks for your feedback.

Unfortunately the Denon documentation for the 3808 is rather light, so while it identifies various setup options, it doesn't explain what they do. I experimented further with the HDMI setup features, and while I haven't resolved the problem with PQ, I think I have a better idea of what is going on.

In the Denon setup, there is an HDMI setup feature that allows you to adjust output resolution, color, hue, contrast, etc. So, this leads me to believe the HDMI processing on the 3808 is not just a passthrough, it is actually processing the signals.

The HDMI output resolution feature has multiple options, including 1080p, 1080i, 720p, 480p and auto (or something like that - I'm going by memory). Initially I had it set to output 1080p, which I suspect was causing he Denon to upscale the DVR 1080i signals to 1080p before sending it to the TV. But my Samsung seems to do upscaling better than the Denon, so I think this was part of the problem. I have now changed it to Auto, and the PQ has improved, but it is still not quite as good as going direct from the DVR to the TV. My guess is that in Auto it will output the same resolution as the input signal, but I believe it is still processing the signal, rather than a straight passthrough.

While not as good as I would like it to be, I suppose I can live with it like this, at least for now. I'm sure there are other connectivity options, so at some point I may try different combinations.

One thing that is noteworth is in this current configuration, I can't watch TV without turing on the Denon receiver. Also noteworth is that the sound is only being output through the receiver, there is no sound output through the TV at all.

 

[doncomm]

solomr2,

I'm planning to purchase the 3808CI and the LG BH200 for use with my Motorola set top box (Cox cable) and my Hitachi 42HDX62. I'm disappointed to hear that you are having PQ problems when you run the HDMI through the 3808.

Have you come up with anything else since your last post?

 

[solomr2]

Have you come up with anything else since your last post?

Yes, and ufortunately it is more bad than good.

I connected my XBOX 360 Elite to the Denon and it seems to have some problems with it too. When I first start the XBOX it seems to work fine, but then after a few minutes of playing Halo-3 the picture starts flickering and then it switches from full screen to a 4:3 picture with black bars down the sides. I checked the XBOX and it still shows 1080p resolution. My TV info says it is displaying a 1080p picture, and all the HDMI connections are secure, but the image is shrunk. Connecting the XBOX directly to the TV seems to work just fine, without any of these problems, it only has problems when it is going through the 3808 via HDMI.

Another problem is every once in a while it will drop the picture alltogether for a second or so. It does this with both the xbox and the Comcast DVR. It just goes black for a second, very annoying.

I'm going to call Denon this week if I can find some time. Maybe there is a firmware update.

Aside from than these HDMI related issues, I absolutely love the 3808. It has awesome rich and warm sound and the mutli-zones makes it very versatile. The new GUI is also a very nice improvement over the 4306.

If Denon can fix these problems they would have one of the best values and best performing receivers on the market, but until then I can't recommend it to anyone.

 

[JonBaker99]

You want to check with Denon, I believe there was a firmware update release for the 3808 fairly recently. I've installed a couple of 3808s and they have twitchy with HDMI but seem to workvery well once you go through and double check all of the settings. For most HD sources I have been turned of the scaler.

 

[solomr2]

You want to check with Denon, I believe there was a firmware update release for the 3808 fairly recently. I've installed a couple of 3808s and they have twitchy with HDMI but seem to workvery well once you go through and double check all of the settings. For most HD sources I have been turned of the scaler.

I've been to the Denon web site, but I didn't find any updates for the 3808. Are you aware of an actual update, and if so, how does one get it?

 

[dukelaw05]

Same HDMI problem for me - screen blacks out

This is, unfortunately, the 2nd Denon system I've had where the HDMI blanks out for a few seconds - maybe once every 30 min to an hour. Otherwise, it's a great system. My firmware is up to date as of a few weeks ago.

If anyone else is having the problem where the screen goes out, but sound stays on, while running HDMI to the tv, then let us know here.

Even more importantly, let us know if you find a solution!

Should we all contact Denon directly and complain? If enough of us mention it, maybe they'll do something?

Sadly, FYI, on my last Denon device, this problem required shipping back to Denon - at your own cost - and waiting several weeks. Ugh...

 

[dukelaw05]

I've been to the Denon web site, but I didn't find any updates for the 3808. Are you aware of an actual update, and if so, how does one get it?

Don't go to the website, you run the firmware update THROUGH the Denon's own GUI. Just to warn you, the firmware update can be grueling. It took over two days of having it crash and restarting it over and over to finally finish. But, that solved A LOT of the initial problems I was having. Just not the screen blacking out for no good reason.

Good luck! and please let me know if this helps and if you're still having the same problem as I am.

 

[solomr2]

Duke; how did you get the firmware update? I checked a week ago on the web site and didn't find anything.

 

[solomr2]

I still don't know how to get the firmware update? Did you just call Denon? Did they send the firmware?

The problems are becoming more noticable. On Sunday I was watching T2 with my kids through the xbox360 elite and part-way through movie the picture started flickering like mad. Restarting the xbox didn't change a thing. I shut off and restarted the Denon and the flickering stopped. Later in the day I was watching Spiderman 2 and the flickering returned. I again restarted the Denon and again the picture returned to normal.

I have occasional blackouts for a second where the picture goes black but sound continues to play. I also have sound dropouts where the sound stops for a second, but the picture is uninterrupted.

When switching between video sources on HDMI, or from sound to video on HDMI it always flashes and flickers the picture for the first 3-5 seconds. Then it will stabilize.

This is annoying.

 

[TLS Guy]

HDMI and HDCP issues

I posted this previously, about a similar problem. Here is the link.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=328741#post328741

 

[solomr2]

I called Denon today. I was on hold for 47 minutes. Finally spoke to the tech, and he told me to download the firmware update. I didn't know the receiver can download the firmware itself, you just need an ethernet connection to your broadband router.

I asked the tech specifically; will this update fix the flickering and the problems with video I was seeing? He said he wasn't sure, but maybe. He said most of the problems are caused by handshake HDMI problems because of HDCP. He advised that when you experience the flickering and other HDMI issues, just switch to another source for a second and come back, that will cause the receiver to redo the handshake.

This does not sound promising, but I guess I have to give it a try.

 

[TLS Guy]

I called Denon today. I was on hold for 47 minutes. Finally spoke to the tech, and he told me to download the firmware update. I didn't know the receiver can download the firmware itself, you just need an ethernet connection to your broadband router.

I asked the tech specifically; will this update fix the flickering and the problems with video I was seeing? He said he wasn't sure, but maybe. He said most of the problems are caused by handshake HDMI problems because of HDCP. He advised that when you experience the flickering and other HDMI issues, just switch to another source for a second and come back, that will cause the receiver to redo the handshake.

This does not sound promising, but I guess I have to give it a try.

Read this thread I posted before. It's all the fault of the unsatisfactory pants down Hollywood crowd!

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...741#post328741

 

[solomr2]

UPDATE

Yesterday, my new OPPO 980 came in. I hooked it up to the Denon and tried some CDs, some SACDs, and some DVD Video. The Denon was just crap! It was dropping the HDMI connection every 4-5 seconds. No matter what I tried, it just wouldn't keep a connection for more than 5 seconds.

I then did the firmware update as advised by Denon. There were 14 updates to install. It took over an hour.

I tried the Oppo again after the Denon firmware updates were done. Now, it's much worse. It just will not make the connection at all. The HDMI input indicator on the Denon flashes on for a second, but before the picture can come up it goes out again.

This is maddening!

 

[TLS Guy]

UPDATE

Yesterday, my new OPPO 980 came in. I hooked it up to the Denon and tried some CDs, some SACDs, and some DVD Video. The Denon was just crap! It was dropping the HDMI connection every 4-5 seconds. No matter what I tried, it just wouldn't keep a connection for more than 5 seconds.

I then did the firmware update as advised by Denon. There were 14 updates to install. It took over an hour.

I tried the Oppo again after the Denon firmware updates were done. Now, it's much worse. It just will not make the connection at all. The HDMI input indicator on the Denon flashes on for a second, but before the picture can come up it goes out again.

This is maddening!

The problem is likely that the Denon is new, and has to play by the new and changing rules. If the Denon is fully compliant with current HDCP standards and your older peripherals aren't, then you have the problem. Form what you say the equipment in your chain is not able to make the repeated handshakes. The problems with these new repeater architecture handshakes, wobbly HDCP handshakes I call them, are only going to get worse. I think this is the intent, as the Unsatisfactory people who inhabit Hollywood really just want anything that outputs a picture, just to be able to output directly to TV only. I really do believe that is the subtext of all of this vile nonsense. They seem to want to ignore the fair use laws and ram this nonsense down our throats.

This issue has come up with fair frequency. Here is what I originally posted about this.

The unsatisfactory people who inhabit Hollywood are paranoid about pirates. So the DRM that goes with HDMI is a code system called HDCP. This is in evolution and the rules keep changing. Every time the pirates crack the code, which they do quickly, the unsatisfactory pants down, bed hopping Hollywood set want a new layer of protection, even if you can't watch their dumb movies.

At the current time there are six keys to the HDCP code that the transmitting and receiving devices have to make a handshake with. This is the HDMI certification. Now if the receiving device is a TV, the Hollywood money grubbers are less paranoid, as the TV is an end device, and one hand shake is good enough. This is why direct connection of a device to a TV is less "buggy". However, if the sending device is connected to a switch or receiver, they are paranoid there will be an opportunity to copy their depraved content. So they have come up with repeater architecture, so a device like a receiver must keep repeating the handshake with the sending device. It is small wonder that this complex nonsense gets out of sync easily. When you switch between devices it resets it all

HDMI 1.3 is now about to be launched. Even worse the Hollywood set are going to force manufacturers of sending devices to downgrade all analog outputs, including component video, to non HD 480i resolution. That is evil and draconian. Also don't expect to see any record devices with HDMI inputs. Hollywood will try and make sure S-Video is as good as it gets.

They are of course ignoring and flouting the fair use laws, and need to have their "well oiled" pants sued off them.

This is a foundation that is carrying the torch in the battle with the studios.

http://www.eff.org/issues/digital-video

All who read this post must go to this site. I think you will agree they deserve our support.

This whole issue is allowing the studios to defraud the public. Lobby your congressional delegation. I think we need a ban on digital rights management. The Hollywood crowd need teaching a good lesson, and a heavy boot directed at their you know where.

That is what I originally said, and I think after the new Christmas sales this year it will be worse.

All of us need to send our monetary support to this outfit.

http://www.eff.org/issues/digital-video

They are battling Hollywood hard to get enforcement of existing fair use laws and help curb this nonsense.

Just one final word, I have heard it stated that the receiver is just a pass through for HDMI. Nothing could be further from the truth. HDMI never was pass through and now there are repeated handshakes during the entire period of use, unless the device is a display. If it is a device that receives an HDMI signal and then outputs it again, then the current HDCP standards are draconian. Unless we ALL scream loud and hard this will only get worse.

 

[solomr2]

UPDATE-2

I've narrowed down the problem a bit. I tried connecting my Oppo directly to the TV, over HDMI, bypassing the Denon. I was able to get a picture, and found that by default the Oppo was putting out 1080p resolution. While the TV was able to hold the picture, it was flickering slightly.

I changed the Oppo's output to 720p and all the flickering went away. I tried all other resolutions and they all seem to work, except for 1080p, wihch flickers.

I then connected everything back up to the Denon, and presto, it all seems to work just fine now, except for 1080p. If I try to switch back to 1080p, it all goes whack again. So, for the time being, I have a less than desirable workaround.

I think I may call Oppo today and see what they say. Since the player can't seem to put out a clean signal at 1080p to my TV or to my Receiver, then I guess they may have some firmware that needs to be updated.

Stay tuned.

 

[solomr2]

UPDATE-3

I called Oppo today and explained my problem to a tech. He said I was the first to report this problem involving the Denon and the Samsung models I have. He insisted the problem had to be a bad HDMI cable. I explained to the tech that I had used three different cables; the one from Oppo that came with the player, and two different series-1 belden cables from Bluejeans.

I asked the Oppo tech if there was a firmware update, and he confirmed there was but again insisted the problem was not software, it had to be the cable, or the player was defective. He advised I return it to Amazon and get a new one.

After I finished talkign to the tech, I went to the Amazon site and scheduled an exchange. In the meantime, I thought I might as well dowload the firmware update. The nice thing about Oppo firmware is it can be loaded from a flash drive.

So when I got home I updated the firmware, and surprise, surprise... IT WORKS! I switched the resolution to 1080p and the picture was clean and steady, no handshake issues, no flicker. I guess I need to call off the exchange with Amazon.

I'll have the spend some more time with it and the XBOX over the weekend to see if the Denon update fixed the old flicker I used to get.