best AVR for $1200 or less??? help the dummy

[mfabien]

Ok, so what would be the problem with running sat. direct to one HDMI input on the TV and the Blu-ray/HD DVD through the receiver then to the TV's other HDMI input? Also, why does the OP need to use HDMI to connect the sat. to the tv, why not use component as it would likely yeild the same picture quality? Why I ask, WHY?!

I see no reason why sound should be sacrificed for NO REASON!

I have no problem with the connections you suggest above.

As for sound with HDMI, with a proper receiver which can passthrough sound as decoded by an HD player, that is ideal because the speaker levels and crossover set in the audio receiver will apply. The other solution is the use of the 5.1 multichannel analogs. In the latter case, the player has settings for speaker size, levels and crossover but the subwoofer setting level is not sufficient to compensate for the -10 dB difference with other speakers and one should increase GAIN at the subwoofer.

 

[Seth=L]

I have no problem with the connections you suggest above.

As for sound with HDMI, with a proper receiver which can passthrough sound as decoded by an HD player, that is ideal because the speaker levels and crossover set in the audio receiver will apply. The other solution is the use of the 5.1 multichannel analogs. In the latter case, the player has settings for speaker size, levels and crossover but the subwoofer setting level is not sufficient to compensate for the -10 dB difference with other speakers and one should increase GAIN at the subwoofer.

The current slew of HD DVD players don't have 5.1 outputs aside from the HD-XA2 and the HD-A35.

 

[yupanic]

1080i/p is very little difference.
And I would still recommend the 799.00 player at Amazon.com for best upscaled DVDs, as well will play HD DVD and BD with the HQV processing (and has analog outs if needed for DTS MA, but will certainly pass DD+, DTS core, and Dolby True HD through the HDMI).
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-BD-UP5000-HD-DVD-Blu-Ray-Player/dp/B000VDG0UK

It should even be an upgrade to the Onkyo 875 video scaling performance.

Please note; it is a pre-order at the moment, so you would have plenty of time to change your mind, as you would not be charged until it ships.

And then just get the Onkyo 805 for sound. It is currently at CC for 699.00 (Buckeyefan posted a link in deal section)
(doh, it just went up in price to 899.00, but may come back down = the Holidays ALWAYS will fluctuate a price)

Considering you were thinking of spending 1200.00+ for just a AVR that does good video, I would think this would fit into your plans well.

EDIT; Granted this is all an opinion, but it is one with a generally higher consesus with the fellows that keep up with HD times.
But by all means, wait for many more replies, as I would like to see other suggestions.
As well, I most certainly do not want to come off as being pushy. This is not even equipment I own, just equipment I have been keeping tabs on, and seems to be the more logical cost to performance option.
There are Yamaha and Denon players that offer very similar performance and maybe with only slight advatages but usually a much higher premium price.
Including the newest Denon player (that is not a combo HD player) it may well have excellent picture quality but at 3 times the price.

My general opinion is, cost effective performance. Not ALL OUT what is TOP of the line.

Thanks alot for the detailed explaination/info. And I don't feel you're being pushy. I like the opinions, especially when reasoning given.

 

[yupanic]

ok, a real amateur question (the things you can learn here, WOW) anyway, if I have HDTV via direct-tv can I runit HDMI through an AVR with up scaling and get ALL channels HD? Does it work like that?

 

[mfabien]

ok, a real amateur question (the things you can learn here, WOW) anyway, if I have HDTV via direct-tv can I runit HDMI through an AVR with up scaling and get ALL channels HD? Does it work like that?

You should tell us what make and model TV you have...

You could have a set with a native resolution of 768p or 1080p. In theory, the TV does a better job up-converting than the STB.

And tell us if Direct TV is transmitting both 720p and 1080i for HD.

 

[no. 5]

All picture settings need to be checked.
Yes they may need different grayscale calibrations per HDMI, per device.

If you are asking, say example.. I have 1 HDMI in the TV and switch between my HD DVD player and my DVD (or any other player for that matter).
Yes, there needs to be a setting for each individual player (settings should be saved per device, or as my LCDs, they save per switched device).
Is it really that much of a concern for most people, NO.
Does it make a difference, 100% absolutely yes.

Same question would apply if you had 3 HDMI ins to the TV, each one should be calibrated seperately for each input device .

Another example, since you bring up grayscale in particular.
One of my HD DVD player has a setting called Enhanced Black Level. My DVD and BD (PS3) do not have this setting, which will totally change your grayscale for that particular device (and changing grayscale, WILL change the color. So that will need to be checked, as well as sharpness, etc..)..

EDIT; this applies to EVERY input on a TV (RF, VGA, each HDMI, RGB, etc...), as each signal will have different settings coming in (some may be filtered, enhanced, etc... So yes this applies to HD DVD, BD, DVD, etc.. and yes HDTV)

Hope that clears up some of the confusion.

Let's see if I get what your saying: because of possible variations from a 'correct' picture coming the from source equipment, each input should be calibrated to compensate for it?

But shouldn't any quality disc player output a 'correct' picture? If, for example, the cable box is outputting wrong colors, how would test patterns come form the box so that the inaccuracy could be correctly compensated for?

I'm sorry if I sound aggressive, but I seem to be more confused than ever...

 

[mfabien]

no. 5,

There is nothing negative about the need to calibrate TV pictures for different sources. It is a fact of life and there's little need here in going into technical causes for this requirement.

An HD DVD player and a SA8300HD DVR are, for instance, two different sources and they need to be treated as devices with specific requirements.

 

[no. 5]

There is nothing negative about the need to calibrate TV pictures for different sources. It is a fact of life and there's little need here in going into technical causes for this requirement.

I don't recall saying it was a negative, I just like getting technical.

 

[Gasman]

But shouldn't any quality disc player output a 'correct' picture?

No agressiveness taken.

But beyond what mfabien is saying, I will add;
NO TWO devices are the same, even from the same manufatcure there will be differences.
So to take two different sources from 2 different companies, and think they will output the SAME exact picture is, well for lack of a better word, crazy.
I don't think I have ever known two different companies that use the same testing measures for QC that end up with EXACT settings, that is why ISF will recommend to calibrate for each setting/device.
This is REALLY BAD when speaking of projector companies (NO TWO PROJECTORS (from the same company) WILL HAVE THE SAME SETTINGS, and both will calibrate differently).
Then to add that no two TVs will have the same settings. Oh, the TV companies will have settings like Dynamic, Vivid, etc.. that are generally the same.
But (using my LCDs as example), I have 2 EXACT same model # TVs and have set them both on Dynamic, neither one has the same EXACT colors, brigthness, sharpness, etc.
(actually I had 3 of them, but one was a lemon from the get go)

 

[yupanic]

tv- pioneer PDP-4270 - i think 768p

Direct tv receiver is 1080i

 

[Gasman]

An HD DVD player and a SA8300HD DVR are, for instance, two different sources and they need to be treated as devices with specific requirements.

LOL, if they were the same, why would there even be a need for calibration. LOL.....


But no worries, some people don't even like a calibrated setup (as it may be to flat for them, this goes for Video and Sound)
Example, most Dynamic modes on TVs generally KILL your black levels. Oh it looks like deeper blacks, but what about all the gray in between.
So it will look more 3-D in dynamic, and some people like this. Others do not, they want to see ALL the details.
Same applies to sound, a flat response, is not what ALL people are after, some will run bass hot others will add treble others do not like highs at all and will boost midrange, etc, etc, etc,.......

BTW, sorry yupanic for going so off topic....

 

[yupanic]

no worries here, the more ya'll talk the more I learn

 

[no. 5]

No agressiveness taken.

But beyond what mfabien is saying, I will add;
NO TWO devices are the same, even from the same manufatcure there will be differences.
So to take two different sources from 2 different companies, and think they will output the SAME exact picture is, well for lack of a better word, crazy.
I don't think I have ever known two different companies that use the same testing measures for QC that end up with EXACT settings, that is why ISF will recommend to calibrate for each setting/device.
This is REALLY BAD when speaking of projector companies (NO TWO PROJECTORS (from the same company) WILL HAVE THE SAME SETTINGS, and both will calibrate differently).
Then to add that no two TVs will have the same settings. Oh, the TV companies will have settings like Dynamic, Vivid, etc.. that are generally the same.
But (using my LCDs as example), I have 2 EXACT same model # TVs and have set them both on Dynamic, neither one has the same EXACT colors, brigthness, sharpness, etc.
(actually I had 3 of them, but one was a lemon from the get go)

Ah, I see now. And I completely agree with the need to calibrate a display.

I just can't see two identical DVD players (for example) both producing noticeably different pictures... but everything is calibrated so the system is 'correct'... hmm... this is probably a topic for its own thread.

 

[allargon]

I'll chime in and say that there's nothing wrong w/ your A3. I will also say the heck with the Onkyo 805. Find an Onkyo 804 instead. The A3 won't send bitstream high res audio through HDMI anyway. The player will decode True-HD and Dolby Digital Plus to multichannel PCM and send that through.

Analog outputs make sense for receivers without HDMI. I don't get why you guys want him to get a player with analog outputs unless he's going to get a receiver that doesn't accept digital PCM over HDMI. Why would he do that if he's shopping for a new receiver? (Unless he is set on Cambridge Audio or something.)

 

[mfabien]

tv- pioneer PDP-4270 - i think 768p

Direct tv receiver is 1080i

I would let the STB on HDMI Auto (PassThrough). The Pioneer will do a better job of converting to native resolution 768p.

With the above setup, the STB will transmit 480i for SD, 720p for ABCHD, FOXHD, ESPNHD and 1080i for NBCHD, CBSHD, PBSHD and several other HD networks. When you change from ABCHD to CBSHD, there will be a momentary black screen during the transmission change from 720p to 1080i.

 

[yupanic]

ok, my A3 can easily go in my other room so if I am going to buy an AVR with intentions on a new 1080p plasma soon does the Onkyo 805 with the Samsung Bd/ HD DVD cover everything? Do I have to get another satillite receiver for 1080p or will the new display upscale it. Do I need the 875 that has the better video processing? I am looking for great sound and video that covers all formats and it easy enough for the wife to function. Thanks for all ya'lls help.

 

[Seth=L]

ok, my A3 can easily go in my other room so if I am going to buy an AVR with intentions on a new 1080p plasma soon does the Onkyo 805 with the Samsung Bd/ HD DVD cover everything? Do I have to get another satillite receiver for 1080p or will the new display upscale it. Do I need the 875 that has the better video processing? I am looking for great sound and video that covers all formats and it easy enough for the wife to function. Thanks for all ya'lls help.

No, you don't need the better video processing on the TX-SR875. You would be better of selling the HD-A3 and getting a HD-XA2 which has the Reon HQV scalers in it.

Allargon, the TX-SR804 is a significant step down from the TX-SR805, it has less features and power.

 

[yupanic]

No, you don't need the better video processing on the TX-SR875. You would be better of selling the HD-A3 and getting a HD-XA2 which has the Reon HQV scalers in it.

Allargon, the TX-SR804 is a significant step down from the TX-SR805, it has less features and power.

Seth, clarification, do you recommend the HD-XA2 instead of the Samsung?

I going to go with the 805 for my HT, to many good reviews not to try it. Just waiting til after Christmas to see if $ goes back down.

Also, for my other room I need another AVR. It will be for 2 monitor bookshelves, maybe Mackie 824, but I need a second zone and preferrably a third for kitchen and deck. Panasonic 50" 768p, direct tv 1080i STB. Can I get away with a lower end AVR than the 805 to save some $$. This will be for mainly music and some regular TV stuff.

 

[Seth=L]

Seth, clarification, do you recommend the HD-XA2 instead of the Samsung?

I going to go with the 805 for my HT, to many good reviews not to try it. Just waiting til after Christmas to see if $ goes back down.

Also, for my other room I need another AVR. It will be for 2 monitor bookshelves, maybe Mackie 824, but I need a second zone and preferrably a third for kitchen and deck. Panasonic 50" 768p, direct tv 1080i STB. Can I get away with a lower end AVR than the 805 to save some $$. This will be for mainly music and some regular TV stuff.

Sorry I forgot you where going for the Samsung. You are talking about the universal Samsung player I take it? I would probably stick with that. I don't know what scaler the Samsung uses, but it will probably be decent if not excellent.

 

[Gasman]

but it will probably be decent if not excellent.

With the few reports on line, much likely the latter.

Can I get away with a lower end AVR than the 805 to save some $$. This will be for mainly music and some regular TV stuff.

Oh by all means you could get a cheap AVR for the second zone.
But I would wait till you get the 805 (if that is the one you get), and test out its 2nd zone.

But if you want to look at cheap 2nd (or a 3rd) zone area AVR, you might try eBay for a used or new piece.
Considering even just a stereo, or pro logic AVR is all you need. Or a real cheap Dolby Digital.

I most certainly would not look at buying retail, newest line models, for that use. (but that's me).
If you want new, I would look at last years closeout cheapest models.
One that I think would be good (although, for your use, ANY would be good) Is those Pioneer 515s (if that is the correct model, I am thinking of.)
It was one of the models before this one - http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PIONEER-VSX-517-S-5-1-CHANNEL-A-V-RECEIVER-SILVER_W0QQitemZ150180038972QQihZ005QQcategoryZ14981QQcmdZViewItem

Or even, if you want to stick with like brands (for remote control reasons).
Then here is a cheap Onkyo. - http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Onkyo-TX-SR304-S-5-1-Channel-Home-Theater-Receiver_W0QQitemZ120192653197QQihZ002QQcategoryZ14981QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

But PLEASE, shop around, as I only looked at this catergory for a total of 2 minutes.
And DID NOT spend sufficient time, looking for a year or 2 old AVR.
Also, you may want to look at the sale area of the forum, plenty of fellows upgrade all the time.
I've got a Pioneer 9300tx that I want to sell. (but clearly you do not need another ~50 pound AVR)
(But it would be for a good cause, LOL, a 805 or 875...) J/K, I may go seperates this time....