My impressions of PS3 vs. other BD players

[Gasman]

Well, I'll get it out of the way.
No, it is not the best BD player for PQ. (so don't believe the farce dobyblue has been posting, that this player is better than the oppo and better than the top of the line BD players)
(granted, I can't say for sure on the Oppo, as I do not have it. But do have a top of the line BD player=see below)



Having said that, please know I have only spent 10 minutes playing with it. And half that time was setting it up (user name, video settings, etc..)


I had only grabbed the first BD that was near (happened to be Devil Wears Prada)
And from the opening credits, I will say, I saw jaggies from the start (not bad, but were there)
And this is where the REON chip in my BD-P1200 does better.

Like I said this was only my first 10 minute impression, so I will add to this thread as I watch MANY more movies.

Does it load faster, well yes and no.
It still requires a boot time (which is fairly fast, and I have not timed it yet)
But I can certainly see where people think this is the pinnacle of BD players (specially on speed)
The menu setup is so fast, I have NEVER seen any piece of A/V equipment this fast. (it is faster than most people on a computer with a mouse)
To get to any setting, could really be measured in milliseconds (seriously)

So yes, my gripes of BD players slow menu system compared to HD DVD = With the PS3, BD wins.

Clear gripes as of now with the PS3, the horrible and dreaded slot loading (I can see within a year, in my house, that this thing will be loaded with dust and will be scratching my 30.00 movies.)
# 2 gripe, is the very awkard casing, that is not even close to normal A/V equipment on a rack.
# 3 not really a gripe, but more of a LOL. The fact you can see the utterly useless info (bitrate speed), is a non-issue. The amount of info, and type of info it shows is useless for actually watching a movie. (I really wish people would not use it as a means for comparing to a standalone player, as this is clearly asinine.)

I will leave on a positive note, that the wireless controller works fantastic (once charged).
And controls the BD disc perfectly, once you (or in this case, me) gets use to it.
So for now, I will pass on getting the extra expenditure of the not-included BD remote.

 

[Gasman]

Ok after watching BD movies all day long.
I finally put in some SD DVDs, to check upconversion (did a A/B test with Rocky (part 1).

It's a good thing there are people like me, that are truly neutral.

Did not even bother testing it against the BD-P1200, because it was not even as good as the XA1. (and I know the 1200 is better than the XA1)
So yeah, I did a A/B test with the player that was setup in the same room (XA1).

My best estimate is the PS3 falls in between tha HD-A2 and the XA1.
So with the current HD players I have here now, here is what would be best for SD upconversion.
1. BD-P1200
2. HD-XA1
3. PS3
4. HD-A2
5. NeuNeo HVD-2085 (not a HD player, but just an upconverter - to 1080p)(I keep this player, for the VGA d-sub connector, in case I use strictly for a computer monitor or projector with limited connections)
6. (placing at #6, because I have not tested yet. The X-box HD DVD player)

In the case of the Oppo (that I do not have), my best guess is that the Oppo is a much better SD upconverter (specially considering that it was made just for that purpose). But the value of the PS3 certainly outweighs the Oppo. Considering a new Oppo is roughly 240.00 shipped, and is only good for SD DVDs.

The PS3 is a good upconverter, I have installed the latest firmware (well, I used version 2.0 updated from version 1.92).
But I find the PS3 is not top of the line (by no means), it is much better suited for BD playback and gaming, as well it is great as a limited HTPC.

I am debating on returning it, because Brandsmart has the BD-P1400 for 299.00 ATM (with 8 free BDs).

The good thing with the PS3, is its other uses, for storing (and playback) of your MP3 collection, and MPEG2 clips, as well it is excellent for photos (thats not even mentioning the gaming aspect of it)..

So it is a toss-up, on what is more important to you, PQ or usefullness (specially if you plan on gaming with it, which I don't).

I'll give it a few more days of testing, and see if the vast amount of features are worth it to me.
Considering I already have some excellent upconverters, I may just keep it for the HTPC aspect of the console.

Compare pictures by all means can be posted, but it may not show in pics the difference I am looking at.
Using the XA1 as example, it (XA1) has a very slight softness to it, without losing any detail of the upconverted image, with clear film like quality. Where the PS3 loses slight image quality, with oversharpnening, and seems to lose depth of image by slightly crushing blacks (contrast levels).
This is with the PS3 upconvering to 1080p, to a TV that is full 1080p capable, while using the same exact calibrated settings.

 

[darien87]

# 3 not really a gripe, but more of a LOL. The fact you can see the utterly useless info (bitrate speed), is a non-issue. The amount of info, and type of info it shows is useless for actually watching a movie. (I really wish people would not use it as a means for comparing to a standalone player, as this is clearly asinine.)

Sorry you feel that way. I don't see why you're calling this feature assinine though. I seriously find myself looking at the bit rate of the audio and video EVERY time I watch a BD. I'm sorry that you find it useless, but I find it interesting to see what the difference is between the Dolby Digital and uncompressed audio tracks.

 

[Gasman]

To each thier own, I'm sure most people could care less as long as the PQ is perfectly fine, as well sound.

I've never went to anyone's house that sat watching anything other than the movie.

If by chance, watching numbers is your fancy, then by all means get a PS3.
Out of all my current players, and all the players I have EVER had the only player I know that does it, is the PS3 (so clearly millions of people could care less (since it is not offered even on 800.00+ players) and I am one of those millions).....

I would use the stick tongue smiley, but I'm sure a sarcastic remark would be returned.
LOL, so why bother.

 

[GlocksRock]

I highly doubt the dust will scratch your BD discs with the slot load, especially since bluray discs are designed to be pretty scratch resistant. But it's nothing a can of compressed air won't fix. I personally like the slot load on the PS3, and as for the bitrate info, it's nice to see, but I don't find that it's beneficial for anything.

 

[Seth=L]

I highly doubt the dust will scratch your BD discs with the slot load, especially since bluray discs are designed to be pretty scratch resistant. But it's nothing a can of compressed air won't fix. I personally like the slot load on the PS3, and as for the bitrate info, it's nice to see, but I don't find that it's beneficial for anything.

The slot loading design is there for a reason. Remember the old PS2? The DVD tray on those things wore out from opening and closing so many times. Mine rubs the sides all the time making a horrible sound. The newer versions of the PS2 are lid type, absolutely no mechanical problems there obviously. The slot loading on the PS3 is slick and its mechanics are not exposed to childrens' prying hands, making it a more durable system for prolonged use.

 

[Thaedium]

Yah, I think Seth is right with this one. For the average Audiophile who takes care of there equipment, I'm sure it might not be your preferred way to have that disc in the PS3, but for those who have drunken roomates like me, or little kids using the PS3, slot loading will be handy. I have the Xbox360 here and stand it up on its side, and I personally hate trying to load a disc sideways. I always get the feeling that when you close it the disc is getting scraped into position on the tray as it closes.

Bitrate:

Well its not a selling point in and of itself, but I find myself being curiously attracted to the feature. Sure, top of the line $1k standalone players don't offer it, nor anything else. But why not? Yes, I know, we all watch the movie not the numbers etc. That doesn't change the fact some of us are curious to know what sound mode its on, and how much information is being sent in those modes.

 

[Gasman]

it's nice to see, but I don't find that it's beneficial for anything.

Exactly my point. So why would someone compare ANY other player in the world to the useless info.

I see what you fellows are saying, on the slot loading.
And I take care of my equipment very well. Having a 6 disc slot loader in the car, I've never been fond of them.
Same with the computers.

The point of using compressed air, is not a good point.
As all you are doing is blowing the dust deeper into the equipment.
This is exactly why projectors with LCD panels, are not recommended to use compressed air often (or clean the panels as few times, as possible)
(same applies to using compressed air on any projectors fan area)
For the BD player considering the dust (or worse, sand) could end up on the laser, then requiring opening up the entire case for cleaning.

Personally, I handle my discs VERY carefully (no dust, fingerprints, etc..) that it is not a huge concern. But I would have preferred a standard tray option.
Granted, that is up for debate (being more subjective personal preference)

As far as the BD disc coating, I have seen many posts about it being very sensitive (and no where near as durable, as claimed)
And players have a hard time reading a disc, even with the slightest smudge, and with slight scratches, not even being able to read at all.
As well, disk rot. - http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/16/blu-ray-disc-coatings-starting-to-rot/



Anyhow, after sleeping on the idea. I guess, I will keep the PS3 but still get the BD-P1400 at the beginning of next year (or see what new players are offered).
I really wanted to test out the 1400, but the PS3 is serving its purpose for now. So it ends up as a BD & HD DVD player in the garage, and in the bedroom. So now just need one more set for the living room.
If the price of the Samsung BD-P5000 hits ~450.00 it will be the player for the living room (and projection setup).

 

[Gasman]

The DVD tray on those things wore out from opening and closing so many times.

If the rubbing wore out the gears (or bands), it really was more a design flaw for that particular tray.
That is just poor design on that one tray, as most transport mechanisms last MANY years. DVD players, CD players, computer disc players, etc...
I do not have a PS2, but I did by my brother one a few years ago, and it still works like a charm.

 

[Gasman]

Anyhow, my thread was not meant to belittle other peoples equipment.
It was more for the fellow that is on a budget, and wants the best PQ without having to try many players.
The PS3 does offer a great value for its features.
However IMHO, the PS3 is not the the best (as many have claimed), and the standalone players are a much better deal for the person that is looking for great PQ.
The review I saw at Secrets is damn close to my findings with the PS3 (I do plan on buying the test disc)
Even though, it has been claimed since a few firmware upgrades, that it is now among the elite players. This is just not true.

My advice, without even testing one, is go for the 298.88 BD-P1400 I posted about.
That is of course, you have a need for a gaming console (or limited HTPC).

Sorry that the vast fans do not see it my way (could be they are just trying to validate their expense), but then again how many of those people have bought over $2,000.00 in HD players trying to find the best deal, for the fellow on a tighter budget.

I really wish I could afford the 1400, but I'm really tapped out until the new year.

 

[Seth=L]

Exactly my point. So why would someone compare ANY other player in the world to the useless info.

Not a comparison, just a nice added feature.

I see what you fellows are saying, on the slot loading.
And I take care of my equipment very well. Having a 6 disc slot loader in the car, I've never been fond of them.
Same with the computers.

I don't like them either, but they are sometimes a necessary evil.

The point of using compressed air, is not a good point.
As all you are doing is blowing the dust deeper into the equipment.
This is exactly why projectors with LCD panels, are not recommended to use compressed air often (or clean the panels as few times, as possible)
(same applies to using compressed air on any projectors fan area)
For the BD player considering the dust (or worse, sand) could end up on the laser, then requiring opening up the entire case for cleaning.

Typically if dust has become an issue with my equipment I take it apart to do it. It isn't recommended obviously, to take your gear apart to clean it, as there are some risks in doing so. I am sure the PS3 has one of those pesky "void if removed" stickers which I ignore once the warranty is up and that is about the right time to clean them anyway if you know what I mean.

Personally, I handle my discs VERY carefully (no dust, fingerprints, etc..) that it is not a huge concern. But I would have preferred a standard tray option.
Granted, that is up for debate (being more subjective personal preference)

Your house is not free from dust and your electronics are the biggest attractors of dust. The PS3 builds quite a static charge around it and attracts a fair amount of dust, regardless of how well you clean and maintain your discs dust will get in.

As far as the BD disc coating, I have seen many posts about it being very sensitive (and no where near as durable, as claimed)
And players have a hard time reading a disc, even with the slightest smudge, and with slight scratches, not even being able to read at all.
As well, disk rot. - http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/16/blu-ray-disc-coatings-starting-to-rot/

Yuk, I hate hearing that phrase "disc rot" it sounds just horrid.

 

[Gasman]

Oh, absolutely Seth, I agree.
LOL, I have no problem even opening up something before the warranty is up.
Just ask Buckeye (Todd). I have sent him many pics of subs I have opened, as well receivers, and may have sent a few pics of DVD players opened up.

But for most people, this would be a issue (voiding the warranty).

LOL, the last few projectors I have had, I have taken completely aprt, just to get every bit of dust out.
But certainly there are people that would not do this.

Personally, I would have liked something of a more sealed design, to limit dust specially if like me, the person has a ceiling fan just above the equipment.

 

[Seth=L]

Oh, absolutely Seth, I agree.
LOL, I have no problem even opening up something before the warranty is up.
Just ask Buckeye (Todd). I have sent him many pics of subs I have opened, as well receivers, and may have sent a few pics of DVD players opened up.

But for most people, this would be a issue (voiding the warranty).

LOL, the last few projectors I have had, I have taken completely aprt, just to get every bit of dust out.
But certainly there are people that would not do this.

Personally, I would have liked something of a more sealed design, to limit dust specially if like me, the person has a ceiling fan just above the equipment.

LOL, no doubt.

 

[darien87]

Exactly my point. So why would someone compare ANY other player in the world to the useless info.

Useless info, to YOU. I find it very useful. But the main reason I brought it up in my comparison between the PS 3 and the HD-A3, was because when you change audio tracks on the A3, it DOESN'T display which track you have chosen on the screen as the PS 3 does. You could switch to the Spanish track and not know it, until you heard Spanish coming out of your speakers. However, even without this feature, if it did display the bitrate of the audio, (as the PS 3 does), I would easily be able to tell if I was listening to a compressed or uncompressed audio track.

Not a huge deal, but just a little quirk of the A3 that I found a little annoying.

 

[Gasman]

However, even without this feature, if it did display the bitrate of the audio, (as the PS 3 does), I would easily be able to tell if I was listening to a compressed or uncompressed audio track.

Just had to quote that.


That is funny the A3 does not tell you what audio track it is on, as even the A2 does tell you which track (for the most part, it will be the first second third, etc.. track listed when audio button is pressed.)

 

[Gasman]

Anyway, I think I will try to return the PS3.

Even though I am not a gamer, I would like to know that PS2 games would work with it.
Since Sony removed the backwards compatibilty, with the 40Gb model, the 60Gb (hardware emulation) and 80Gb (software emulation) versions are a better buy.
My brother has a ton of PS1 & PS2 games, so when he comes over it would be nice to keep him busy (by telling him to bring one of his games).

So that being said, the 399.00 for the PS3 is not as good a deal as I first thought.
As well, I did more Standard DVD testing, and I am concluding that Secrets review was dead on. (I now would place it below or equal to the HD-A2 in terms of SD DVD upconversion).

However, LOL, I have found the PS3 useful enough to buy the 60 or 80 GB version, so in returning mine I will get the 100.00 more player. But this is only for the added benefit of using all PS games (if needed), as well it will be my music server and saves me money, by not building another HTPC.
But it is not the best upconverter by any means (above average, but not by much)

So my recommendation (IMO) for all the fellows selling your Oppos (or other player for SD upconversion), keep the Oppo until you see how the PS3 plays your SD movies (specially if you have a large screen 50+). I honestly have not even checked the PS3 on the 96", as the difference can easily be seen on my 42".

 

[Gasman]

Did not even bother testing it against the BD-P1200, because it was not even as good as the XA1. (and I know the 1200 is better than the XA1)

Please note:
That I was checking the PQ difference before I updated the XA1 firmware.
Even though the 2.4 firmware was released last week for download, I did not get around to it until today.
With the newer version, from my understanding, it adds even better PQ to the already stunning PQ of the XA1/A1 series.

For those people who did not see the update for the A1 series, you can download it here.
This is the notice, http://www.tacp.com/tacpassets-images/notices/hddvdfirmware.asp
and get the ISO file here, http://tacp.toshiba.com/tacpassets-images/notices/hddvd-downloadingfirmware.asp

 

[darien87]

Anyway, I think I will try to return the PS3.

Even though I am not a gamer, I would like to know that PS2 games would work with it.
Since Sony removed the backwards compatibilty, with the 40Gb model, the 60Gb (hardware emulation) and 80Gb (software emulation) versions are a better buy.
My brother has a ton of PS1 & PS2 games, so when he comes over it would be nice to keep him busy (by telling him to bring one of his games).

You know, I thought that BC was a big deal when I bought my PS 2 and PS 3. But both times I found that once I started playing the new generation of games, I didn't want to go back. The only PS 2 game I still play is Guitar Hero and graphics-wise GH 3 kicks the crap out of it.

 

[darien87]

Just had to quote that.

Why did you feel the need to quote that? I wasn't saying that my hearing is so good that I can easily hear the difference between compressed and uncompressed audio. I was saying that because the PS 3 displays the bit rate of the audio, if I see 448 kbps on the screen, I know I'm hearing compressed audio. If it says 1.5 mbps, I know it's uncompressed.

 

[Gasman]

Yeah, I had to reread that, I looked at it quickly last time.

Anyhow, the PS3 40Gb has been returned, and I have the 80Gb on order direct from Sony.
The new CC deal gives 100.00 off on your first purchase (for new qualifying members) so I picked up a 80Gb for the price I paid for the 40Gb.
I lose Spiderman 3 (no big deal, as I had planned on getting the Trilogy setbox) as well the other 2 freebies for 399.00 (plus tax)

But the deal at Sony was new card members got 100.00 off first purchase of 299.00 or more.
Picked up the PS3 80Gb for 499.00 (plus tax) minus the 100.00 and they also include a second wireless controller for free, all with free shipping.
So not a bad deal. Now I can dump 50Gb of music on it.
As well the bonus of backwards compatability, and the use of SACDs.
And clearly my main use of BD play.