Output frequency spec

[juanedilio]

I am checking out two Yamaha models: the RX-V659 and the RX-V461. There is a specification of which I am not sure of its importance. I am particularly worried about the frequency rating written.

SPECIFICATIONS
RX-V659: RMS Output Power (20Hz - 20kHz) 100W x 7
RX-V461: RMS Output Power (1kHz) 100W x 5

What do the different frequency ranges mean and should it be the decisive factor in my final choice?

Thanks

 

[MDS]

There are a few different standards for measuring power. The 20hz - 20 kHz rating is the FTC rating (USA) and the 1kHz rating is the DIN rating. Sometimes they also list the EIJA rating (Japan).

The 20-20K rating is the most representative of the real power as it is measured across the entire audible frequency range. The 1 kHz rating isn't as demanding because the power is measured at a single frequency and it will be higher. If the 1 kHz rating is the only one given, it does not mean that the receiver can only reproduce that frequency.

 

[juanedilio]

And any reccomendation as for which to choose. I know it should be my decision, but right now I am driving myself crazy looking at so many receivers and some options which I am not even sure I understand. I dont care about 7.1 for the moment and the V-461 is about a year newer and slightly cheaper, but then again the RX v-659 was so highly rated. Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[3db]

I find this very odd that Yamaha would spec diiferently

And any reccomendation as for which to choose. I know it should be my decision, but right now I am driving myself crazy looking at so many receivers and some options which I am not even sure I understand. I dont care about 7.1 for the moment and the V-461 is about a year newer and slightly cheaper, but then again the RX v-659 was so highly rated. Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks!

within the RX-V series. I know they spec differently between the HTR series and the RX-V series and that in itself is really dumb since the amplifier sections in both series are identica given equivalent models in power.

You could write an email to Yamaha and ask them for clarification. If you choose this route, let us know what they say. Good luck

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am checking out two Yamaha models: the RX-V659 and the RX-V461. There is a specification of which I am not sure of its importance. I am particularly worried about the frequency rating written.

SPECIFICATIONS
RX-V659: RMS Output Power (20Hz - 20kHz) 100W x 7
RX-V461: RMS Output Power (1kHz) 100W x 5

What do the different frequency ranges mean and should it be the decisive factor in my final choice?

Thanks

When you drive all 5 or 7 channels simultaneously, you won't be getting 100 watts per channel at any frequency anyway. Most of these companies never tell you the whole story. With all channels driven, you are probably getting 40 watts per channel.

Even the Onkyo receivers are rated with 2 channels driven, not all 7 channels driven simultaneously.

Even the mightly Denon 5808 is rated with 2 channels driven, not all 7 channels driven simultaneously. Although I'm sure it has plenty of power will 7 channels driven.

The only receiver company I know of that rates their receivers with all 7 channels driven simultaneously from 20 Hz - 20 kHz, < 0.07% THD is Harman Kardon.

So IMO, just look at the features vs price you want. Both of those Yamaha receivers will probably give you the same power.

 

[jcPanny]

Yamaha receivers.

How about the RX-V661 model (or HTR equivalent)? It has all of the features of the RX-V659 including pre-amp outputs, a good amp stage, and auto-setup. It also adds HDMI audio processing and switching.

If you don't need HDMI then the RX-V659 is a good option.

 

[juanedilio]

I looked into the V661 it is too expensive for what I am looking and I dont have a need for HDMI in the near future, and plus it has HDMI 1.2 which doesnt support DTS-HD or Dolby-HD so there is no point on getting that if it is already obsolete (from an HDMI standpoint).

 

[mtrycrafts]

When you drive all 5 or 7 channels simultaneously, you won't be getting 100 watts per channel at any frequency anyway. Most of these companies never tell you the whole story. With all channels driven, you are probably getting 40 watts per channel.

Even the Onkyo receivers are rated with 2 channels driven, not all 7 channels driven simultaneously.

Even the mightly Denon 5808 is rated with 2 channels driven, not all 7 channels driven simultaneously. Although I'm sure it has plenty of power will 7 channels driven.

The only receiver company I know of that rates their receivers with all 7 channels driven simultaneously from 20 Hz - 20 kHz, < 0.07% THD is Harman Kardon.

So IMO, just look at the features vs price you want. Both of those Yamaha receivers will probably give you the same power.

Yes, but, always a but. Which CD or movie sound track has all channels at full power at the exact same instant? I have not found one yet, so there is no real world need for that rating, all channels driven.
And, you don't need much time difference between channels to get a recharge of the caps for the next round of dynamic demand.
Oh, the home page here at AH has an article on this "all channels driven" stuff.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I am checking out two Yamaha models: the RX-V659 and the RX-V461. There is a specification of which I am not sure of its importance. I am particularly worried about the frequency rating written.

SPECIFICATIONS
RX-V659: RMS Output Power (20Hz - 20kHz) 100W x 7
RX-V461: RMS Output Power (1kHz) 100W x 5

What do the different frequency ranges mean and should it be the decisive factor in my final choice?

Thanks

As MDS explained. Don't know the cost difference between those two and your needs, but if they would meet your need equally, I'd go for the 659.
You can count on about a 10% less power from a 1kHz specified amp when it is retested with 20Hz-20kHz. So, the 461 would spec about 90 watts +/- when tested at 20Hz-20kHz. Not much but...

 

[no. 5]

I dont care about 7.1 for the moment and the V-461 is about a year newer and slightly cheaper, but then again the RX v-659 was so highly rated. Any comments would be appreciated.

Personally, I would go for the 659 over the 461 because although the 461 is newer, it is also a lower model than the 659, so at least theoretically could be of lesser build quality and components.

I looked into the V661 it is too expensive for what I am looking and I dont have a need for HDMI in the near future, and plus it has HDMI 1.2 which doesnt support DTS-HD or Dolby-HD so there is no point on getting that if it is already obsolete (from an HDMI standpoint).

Yes HDMI v1.2 does not support sending the raw bitstream for the new audio coedec (i.e. DTS-HD, DD+, TrueHD), but that's ok because anything that will play a disc that has one of said coedec will also have an internal decoder for them, and most HD DVD and Blu-ray disc's will not allow the raw bitstream out of the player anyway.

 

[3db]

Personally, I would go for the 659 over the 461 because although the 461 is newer, it is also a lower model than the 659, so at least theoretically could be of lesser build quality and components..

They have bullet proof reliability and I don't think Yamaha would attempt to lower their build quality even with the lesser models. Maybe less features but not quaility.

 

[no. 5]

They have bullet proof reliability and I don't think Yamaha would attempt to lower their build quality even with the lesser models. Maybe less features but not quaility.

That's why I said "theoretically".

My assumption was that since the 659's MSRP is about $150 higher than the 461, the extra money that goes into building the 659 could be going into things like a more capable power supply, amplifiers, etc.

It's not that I think the 461 is of substandard quality, I just feel that the 659 is more capable.

 

[3db]

That's why I said "theoretically".

My assumption was that since the 659's MSRP is about $150 higher than the 461, the extra money that goes into building the 659 could be going into things like a more capable power supply, amplifiers, etc.

It's not that I think the 461 is of substandard quality, I just feel that the 659 is more capable.

Got it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That's why I said "theoretically".

My assumption was that since the 659's MSRP is about $150 higher than the 461, the extra money that goes into building the 659 could be going into things like a more capable power supply, amplifiers, etc.

It's not that I think the 461 is of substandard quality, I just feel that the 659 is more capable.

Yeah, I compared the Denon 4308 to the 2808, and I can't hear any difference in sound quality in Pure Direct Mode. But I think the 4308 has to have better parts, right? Must have. How else can they justify the price difference? With a little more power and more HDMI inputs? Gotta be a little better quality parts, at least in theory.