Are all THX Certified speakers made to run at 80hz Crossover?

[nemesis1218]

Are all THX Certified speakers supposed to be running at an 80hz crossover on the amp? Even in non-THX content like music is this still the optimal setting? My Denon auto setup sets the crossover to 120, which seems kind of high. also, just to double check, the crossover on the sub should be maxed, since it is really being all controlled from the amp, correct?

 

[Brian_the_King]

Are all THX Certified speakers supposed to be running at an 80hz crossover on the amp?...

That is just a 'good' starting point. It's definitely not going to sound best like that on all speakers/systems, THX certified or not.

...the crossover on the sub should be maxed, since it is really being all controlled from the amp, correct?

Correct.

 

[mtrycrafts]

.. also, just to double check, the crossover on the sub should be maxed, since it is really being all controlled from the amp, correct?

While the receiver is controlling the crossover frequency, the sub is still getting a good portion of the out of band frequencies dictated by the slope of the crossover. Hence, you can augment the steepness of this slope by adjusting the sub crossover a bit higher than the receivers. But, you can experiment if you like and see. Frequencies above 80 Hz in a sub will reveal its location plus misguide the high frequency to an unwanted location, if they are still audible doe to a shallow cut-off slope.

 

[Audioholics]

All THX systems I am aware of enforce the 80Hz crossover design parameter when THX modes/processing are engaged. With that said, you can do anything you want as THX never forces anyone to use their DSP or settings on a product. They do not, to my knowledge, design any full-range speakers or anything other than for an 80Hz crossover, however.

 

[agarwalro]

THX audio from media
+ THX mode processing on receiver or pre/pro
+ THX certified speakers
+ THX recommended speaker placement

= Optimal THX experience

If any one of the above is missing, you are loosing out.

 

[bpape]

Just understand that THX is a certification system to meet minimal requirements. There are superior products available that are not THX certified. This does not mean that they won't perform as well - only that the manufacturer has chosen not to spend the LARGE amount of money required for the certification product. Most smaller companies simply cannot afford this expense.

Bryan

 

[mtrycrafts]

Just understand that THX is a certification system to meet minimal requirements.
Bryan

I think it is more than a minimal requirement. It is a standard that the THX processing has come up with to maintain a certain level of excellence in the recording, mastering and reproduction chain to give a uniform reproduction of what was recorded and as close to it as possible. I think it is a pretty high standard in light of it being used in a THX recording and mastering.

 

[bpape]

I was not trying to trivialize the specs. I'm just saying that a THX rating means they've paid for the process and the licensing and that the product meets those specs. This does not, however, mean that there are not other superior products out there that simply have not chosen to pay for the very high licensing costs.

Look at products like Theta. Those are some of the best performing processors out there and will absolutely provide everything that the THX spec requires - and then some. They're just a smaller company and the cost per unit would be ridiculous just to put a THX badge on it.

How about Danley subs? Same deal. I've heard a LOT of THX certified subs that won't hold a candle to the Danley.

All I'm saying is don't make your decision based solely on whether a piece has THX certification or not.

Here's an example:

THX Certified system:

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=FDA99EA1&nplm=TB825LL/A

Non-THX Certified system:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/epic80_600main.html

I'll guarantee you the Axiom will blow away the Logitech system even though it doesn't have the cert.

Bryan

 

[Adam]

I'll guarantee you the Axiom will blow away the Logitech system even though it doesn't have the cert.

I don't know, Bryan. Those Logitech's look pretty sweet.

 

[Sheep]

I was not trying to trivialize the specs. I'm just saying that a THX rating means they've paid for the process and the licensing and that the product meets those specs. This does not, however, mean that there are not other superior products out there that simply have not chosen to pay for the very high licensing costs.

Look at products like Theta. Those are some of the best performing processors out there and will absolutely provide everything that the THX spec requires - and then some. They're just a smaller company and the cost per unit would be ridiculous just to put a THX badge on it.

How about Danley subs? Same deal. I've heard a LOT of THX certified subs that won't hold a candle to the Danley.

All I'm saying is don't make your decision based solely on whether a piece has THX certification or not.

Here's an example:

THX Certified system:

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=FDA99EA1&nplm=TB825LL/A

Non-THX Certified system:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/epic80_600main.html

I'll guarantee you the Axiom will blow away the Logitech system even though it doesn't have the cert.

Bryan

Uhhhmmm, THX Gaming speakers and a full fledged home theater system. Yeah, thats and apples to apples comparison. It's a different certification for the gaming systems. And I've owned a THX PC speaker set. They were freaking LOUD. Great for gaming.

I think you're putting too much emphasis on the "badge". THX also have processing modes, so it's more then sticking a badge on a good product. I'd honestly like to know whats required for each component.

SheepStar

 

[bpape]

Sheep.

I agree. It's a bit over the edge but it was deliberately that way to make a point. JUST a THX badge for the uneducated consumer can be a misleading way to make a decision. That was my whole point. I'm just saying that just because a piece has a THX cert doesn't mean it's automatically better than a non-THX piece. That's all.

Yes, there are processing modes involved. And again, many non THX processors have those same modes, same xover points, etc. Many of those have MORE modes and MORE xover options (which can be very very handy when setting up and balancing a system).

I'm really not trying to be difficult. I'm just trying to bring all the facts to play for those considering new systems and trying to allow them to make a fully informed decision.

Bryan

 

[fsrenduro]

to maintain a certain level of excellence in the recording, mastering and reproduction chain to give a uniform reproduction of what was recorded and as close to it as possible.

THX certification has nothing to do with the recording process, and really doesn't have anything to do with the mastering process either (except for THX certified movies).

http://www.thx.com/home/dvd/search.html

It really come down to reproduction. For instance THX has no knowledge of where sound is recorded for a movie (be it dialog, sound effects or music), it isn't involved with the mixing of those elements for the film (except in potentially certifying the stage on which it is mixed)

 

[mtrycrafts]

THX certification has nothing to do with the recording process, and really doesn't have anything to do with the mastering process either (except for THX certified movies).

http://www.thx.com/home/dvd/search.html

It really come down to reproduction. For instance THX has no knowledge of where sound is recorded for a movie (be it dialog, sound effects or music), it isn't involved with the mixing of those elements for the film (except in potentially certifying the stage on which it is mixed)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THX


THX is the trade name of a high-fidelity sound reproduction standard for movie theaters, screening rooms, home theaters,

THX is mainly a quality assurance system.

that any film soundtrack mixed in THX will sound as near as possible to the intentions of the mixing engineer.

Sounds to me that some THX standards are used in the mixing if that film or DVD is to carry THX, no?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Sheep.
I'm just saying that just because a piece has a THX cert doesn't mean it's automatically better than a non-THX piece. That's all.
Bryan

Yes, but you said this:
Just understand that THX is a certification system to meet minimal requirements.

It is not a minimal requirement. It is a high standard for a standardization system. Other components may have a different need. Subs for a THX has a certain requirement and spl needs. If you exceed the spl needs, ok, but in a THX reproduction of sound you would not have a need for that, right as the soundtrack will be just so loud. Not saying you cannot exceed that but then it is not what was recorded, right?

 

[fsrenduro]

Films can be mixed on a THX certified mixing stage but that is just a certification for the performance of the room and doesn't control what sounds are chosen or how they are mixed or eq'd.

Imagine if you will that a racetrack is THX certified. You could race any car you want there and say it was THX raced but that doesn't mean it is the best car.

Wikipedia is a little off since movies aren't 'mixed in THX'. For THX DVD's, I think that has more to do with the transfer of the film and sound (i.e mastering) to DVD long after it has been mixed.

If a movie was never released on DVD it wouldn't be mastered. Mixing and Mastering are different things. Music for instance is mixed and then gets mastered to CD. Movies are mixed but not mastered for theatrical release.

Don't get me wrong I like THX stuff, especially when it comes to pre/pros and receivers. THX doesn't mean something is the best. What it does is make it easier for consumers. If someone with no knowledge of home theater bought all THX certified equipement they would have a very good system. Could someone with some knowledge about home theater take the same amount of money and put together a better system with no THX certified equipement? Yes.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Films can be mixed on a THX certified mixing stage but that is just a certification for the performance of the room and doesn't control what sounds are chosen or how they are mixed or eq'd.

Yes, perhaps that is enough to use THX certified mixing stage, so it is at least conforms to a standard. After all, the way it is mixed, based on some standards, is where it starts. Then you will see a consistent outcome if the chain is reliable.
Choosing sounds and EQ is an artistic endeavor but it is performed on a set standard so the results can be best duplicated.
If there are no standards in the preparation, in this case mixing stage, reproduction would be all over the place from one room to the next, no?

For THX DVD's, I think that has more to do with the transfer of the film and sound (i.e mastering) to DVD long after it has been mixed.

OK, at least this mastering is also done to a standard of excellence. Every bit helps.

If a movie was never released on DVD it wouldn't be mastered. Mixing and Mastering are different things. Music for instance is mixed and then gets mastered to CD. Movies are mixed but not mastered for theatrical release.

Yes, but, again, if it is mixed on a THX certified stage, you have a common standard applied to all those films using that certified stage, even if the audio and video is an artistic value.

Don't get me wrong I like THX stuff, especially when it comes to pre/pros and receivers. THX doesn't mean something is the best.

Yes, I understand it may not be the best, but, there is a common thread, a given standard, between all those films done on such a stage, that is all. Then, if your chain at home or in a theater is also set up to a common standard, you will get the best duplication of THAT move, right?

 

[bpape]

Yes, but you said this:
Just understand that THX is a certification system to meet minimal requirements.

It is not a minimal requirement. It is a high standard for a standardization system. Other components may have a different need. Subs for a THX has a certain requirement and spl needs. If you exceed the spl needs, ok, but in a THX reproduction of sound you would not have a need for that, right as the soundtrack will be just so loud. Not saying you cannot exceed that but then it is not what was recorded, right?

I think there was a misinterpretation of what I meant (problem with typed conversations...). Yes - it is a high standard. My point was that it certified that you met that high standard as a minimum. It can be exceeded but it's the minimum allowable.

I mean think about it - the THX spec says for instance, that you must have an 80Hz xover. So, I can have a receiver/processor that has only an 80Hz xover. It meets that part of the spec.

Now, I personally have a non-THX certified processor that has 40-100Hz in 10Hz increments, a choice of 6,12,18, or 24db/octave slope, and a choice between phase perfect, butterworth, or one other (don't remember - too early) TYPE of xover. Which is preferable?

Again, I'm not bashing the THX spec and cert process. I think it's great for theater use and if properly implemented, does in fact provide a certain level of performance for home use. It's just not the 'must have or you can't get good performance' many make it out to be.

Part of what is provided will never be used by most people - that's the THX re-eq function which compensates for speakers being behind large, commercial, 'transparent' screens.

Bryan

 

[mtrycrafts]

I think there was a misinterpretation of what I meant (problem with typed conversations...). Yes - it is a high standard. My point was that it certified that you met that high standard as a minimum. It can be exceeded but it's the minimum allowable.

I mean think about it - the THX spec says for instance, that you must have an 80Hz xover. So, I can have a receiver/processor that has only an 80Hz xover. It meets that part of the spec.

Now, I personally have a non-THX certified processor that has 40-100Hz in 10Hz increments, a choice of 6,12,18, or 24db/octave slope, and a choice between phase perfect, butterworth, or one other (don't remember - too early) TYPE of xover. Which is preferable?

Again, I'm not bashing the THX spec and cert process. I think it's great for theater use and if properly implemented, does in fact provide a certain level of performance for home use. It's just not the 'must have or you can't get good performance' many make it out to be.

Part of what is provided will never be used by most people - that's the THX re-eq function which compensates for speakers being behind large, commercial, 'transparent' screens.

Bryan

OK. Now we are on the same page.