sound not quite there!

M

mrstereo

Enthusiast
Hello all,

I am a little rusty so i need a little help and advise. I have the Denon 3806 and the RBH Mc series speakers. the first problem i have is that altough the sound is clear i know it could be a lott better and the bass is not quite there i have played with things in the menu and i just can't figure it out. The oppening scene in transformers does not have the boom or the feeling of engulfing me in the movie. I know the speakers and reciever can do a whole lott more than i am getting.

The second is an issue with a dvi to hdmi adaptor i have, i can put it to my dish 622 no problems but when connected to the back of the Denon it will make a clicking sound for say 5- 10 minutes then finaly get the picture to the projector and clicking sound goes away but if i change video sources the screen goes blue and clicking restarts.

Any and all advice and help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advace.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
The second is an issue with a dvi to hdmi adaptor i have, i can put it to my dish 622 no problems but when connected to the back of the Denon it will make a clicking sound for say 5- 10 minutes then finaly get the picture to the projector and clicking sound goes away but if i change video sources the screen goes blue and clicking restarts.

Any and all advice and help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advace.
I think you have a handshake issue here. Why not send the dish video direct to the projector and send the audio to the receiver for processing.
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
I am using a DVI to HDMI cable (not adapter) for the DVD to 3806 video. No issues, but when changing sources, I too see the blue screen. In my case it stays for all of 1 - 3 seconds. I don't recall a clicking sound other than during 3806 power up. I'll take a closer look when I get home from work :D.

Try a different DVI - HDMI adapter and make sure all connections are secure.
 
M

mrstereo

Enthusiast
I do have the audio going to the reciever but if i put it (Hdmi adaptor) strait to the dish 622 i cant get the other video signals to the projector like the oppo ( without manualy switching the cable everytime). It is a dvi cable strait to the sanyo plvz2, the oppo is the one with dvi, i have bought an additional adaptor to make sure it wasn't the adaptor same result with any video source.

Thank you for the help and looking forward to more, still cant get the sound right, let me know if you want some more specific details to better assist me. Also when using the Denon microphone the reciever calculated the sub at around 23 ft away when it is maybe 15ft if that means something to anyone.

Thanks again
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I do have the audio going to the reciever but if i put it (Hdmi adaptor) strait to the dish 622 i cant get the other video signals to the projector like the oppo ( without manualy switching the cable everytime). It is a dvi cable strait to the sanyo plvz2, the oppo is the one with dvi, i have bought an additional adaptor to make sure it wasn't the adaptor same result with any video source.

Thank you for the help and looking forward to more, still cant get the sound right, let me know if you want some more specific details to better assist me. Also when using the Denon microphone the reciever calculated the sub at around 23 ft away when it is maybe 15ft if that means something to anyone.

Thanks again

I see your quandary. May need to settle for component cables from the Oppo? I doubt you will notice a difference, unless you are up-converting beyond the allowed level on component; the projector can still up-convert too.

What is wrong with the sound? As to the auto calibration. I would just manually set all the speakers measured distances and use internal or external test tones for leveling channels and let the auto EQ, if applied, stand.
 
M

mrstereo

Enthusiast
if i am correct you need to use the dvi out of the oppo to get the best result i also would have to hook the adaptor to the Denon either way for the other video out's.... Man such a little part giving me such grief!!! maybe i can try a different brand adaptor (the others are same brand) Wish Denon had some support.

The sound is true , clear, and articulates well it just seems to be behind glass( if that makes sense) and not fully engulfing and i must have something wrong with the bass managment just dont know which part i will keep playing with it over the next few days and tell you if i find anything i am rusty but not a total beginner. Appreciate the help mtrycrafts and anyone else that wants to help
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
if i am correct you need to use the dvi out of the oppo to get the best result i also would have to hook the adaptor to the Denon either way for the other video out's.... Man such a little part giving me such grief!!! maybe i can try a different brand adaptor (the others are same brand) Wish Denon had some support.

The sound is true , clear, and articulates well it just seems to be behind glass( if that makes sense) and not fully engulfing and i must have something wrong with the bass managment just dont know which part i will keep playing with it over the next few days and tell you if i find anything i am rusty but not a total beginner. Appreciate the help mtrycrafts and anyone else that wants to help
Certainly.
If the sound is not engulfing, make sure the speakers are level matched and you have the right sound stream going to the receiver.

Has the sound been an issue before?
 
M

mrstereo

Enthusiast
mtrycrafts i really appreciate you staying on top of this thread this is my first time posting on this forum and i guess like most where most get read but not as many people reply. I will be doing some hard core tweaking and rewiring today. I have known for some time that the sound wasn't quite there but never had the time till now so when i started tweaking i thought i could get it fixed fairly easy but when i coudn't that is when i posted i usualy don't ask for help. So let me tell you about the video problem some more, the other day when i was checking this post i saw something on a differerent thread about the hda2 being sold cheap so thanks to those posts i went out and bought a couple of them so it is hooked up strait with hdmi of course with same problem but less time the picture comes up but if i go into the setup menu or switch inputs or something( to start tweaking) the projector looses signal and once again a clicking sound from the denon 3806...... AARRGGHH!!

also what is your oppinoin on sending the sound through optical vs hdmi?
One more, your oppinon on keeping my oppo for th sd dvd's vs the upconversion on the hda2?
Thanks again,I better get tweaking!
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
mtrycrafts i really appreciate you staying on top of this thread this is my first time posting on this forum and i guess like most where most get read but not as many people reply. I will be doing some hard core tweaking and rewiring today. I have known for some time that the sound wasn't quite there but never had the time till now so when i started tweaking i thought i could get it fixed fairly easy but when i coudn't that is when i posted i usualy don't ask for help. So let me tell you about the video problem some more, the other day when i was checking this post i saw something on a differerent thread about the hda2 being sold cheap so thanks to those posts i went out and bought a couple of them so it is hooked up strait with hdmi of course with same problem but less time the picture comes up but if i go into the setup menu or switch inputs or something( to start tweaking) the projector looses signal and once again a clicking sound from the denon 3806...... AARRGGHH!!

also what is your oppinoin on sending the sound through optical vs hdmi?
One more, your oppinon on keeping my oppo for th sd dvd's vs the upconversion on the hda2?
Thanks again,I better get tweaking!

We, including myself, need help periodically , or more often:D That should not prevent one from asking as you may save time and energy.

Do you know how to level match your speakers with internal test tones and an SPL meter? Also, make sure you don't swap speaker polarity as that can mess up on your overall sound, giving you an impression that things are not correct, sounds wonder, etc.


As to the video. I can only suggest a few experiments. Don't know that audio capability of that 3806, if it will convert the DD True HD or DTS hi def formats or not. If not, then you have two options. Using your optical or digital coax out from the A2, if it has a digital coax directly to the 3806 and sending the video direct to the projector. Or, using the 5.1 analog in on the receiver and letting the A2 do the conversion of the audio to analog and send the analog to the receiver. In the latter case though, you will have to set up the player for the surround sound stuff, distance to speakers, large or small speakers, etc, as you did in the receiver. I believe you need to set the player to bitstream audio. May need to do this with the satellite Tv also.

But I see you also have a satellite to switch and your projector is 720p capable. It has a DVI-I connection so make sure that your HDMI adaptor is DVI-I and not the DVI-D type; yes, there are two variants of this.:eek:
You also have component.
Not sure what your satellite box can output and set for, so you have to figure that out.

You may also want to try component from the satellite and HDMI-DVI-I to the projector.

Once you have your video path that works properly, I don't see needing two players but you may want to keep it as a back up. Unfortunately today this is getting complex as it is computer driven. Hopefully we can fix this. Hang in there and I will try to keep up with you.
 
M

mrstereo

Enthusiast
K it looks like you did figure something out here for me, concerning the different dvi connections. It appears the adaptor is DV-D but the cable is also DVI-D. My research tells me the DVI-D should work though... The DVI-I allows for anolog with the 4 extra pins but if i am not sending any anaog i shouldnt need to worry right?? Is the problem maybe becuase i am going from DVI-I to DVI-D to HDMI? Seems to me if an adaptor did exist it wouldn't matter becuase the cable has nowhere for the 4 extra pins or anaog sinal to go right?? Also while tweeking having the A2 up via hdmi i did loose picture and this time also audio. I also once when signal was lost turned the power to the projector off then back on and it came back up???

as for the audio maybe i am to demanding but i still think something is wrong after hours of tweaking, i was looking at the measurments the denon mic recorded at it read the sub at -12 and 23 ft away!!Iwatched the tranformers again and in the opening scenes i turned the volume knob all the way up on the sub its self and then i could here the bass of the helicopter blades better but i shouldn't need that turned up all the way right??

Thanks for the help, i better stop there before i write a novell, happy listening till next time!
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
K it looks like you did figure something out here for me, concerning the different dvi connections. It appears the adaptor is DV-D but the cable is also DVI-D. My research tells me the DVI-D should work though... The DVI-I allows for anolog with the 4 extra pins but if i am not sending any anaog i shouldnt need to worry right?? Is the problem maybe becuase i am going from DVI-I to DVI-D to HDMI? Seems to me if an adaptor did exist it wouldn't matter becuase the cable has nowhere for the 4 extra pins or anaog sinal to go right?? Also while tweeking having the A2 up via hdmi i did loose picture and this time also audio. I also once when signal was lost turned the power to the projector off then back on and it came back up???

as for the audio maybe i am to demanding but i still think something is wrong after hours of tweaking, i was looking at the measurments the denon mic recorded at it read the sub at -12 and 23 ft away!!Iwatched the tranformers again and in the opening scenes i turned the volume knob all the way up on the sub its self and then i could here the bass of the helicopter blades better but i shouldn't need that turned up all the way right??

Thanks for the help, i better stop there before i write a novell, happy listening till next time!
If you look through the articles at the home page, I remember seeing one on just what you are talking about, DVI-I. DVI-D and HDMI. I am not sure but it might make a difference. If so, since your projector is DVI-I, get an adaptor to fit the projector's DVI-I and the other side HDMI, then just get a good HDMI cable.
Yes, by turning off your projector and back on, it certainly is that handshake issue, recognizing the copy protection protocol stuff. Unfortunately with some components, it appears, the sequence of what gets turned on first and last matters.

As to the audio, I would get a SPL meter from Radio Shack, the analog one is my recommendation for this procedure, and manually calibrate the levels of each channels and manually input the distance. Have the LFE channel at least equal to the others or, for a personal preference for the lows;) turn it up by 3 dB, or there about:D Replay the movie and report back:D
Also, in the first 8 minutes in that movie where the two tanks are airborne and drops, I don't get much either. Most everywhere else it is pretty good.
Have you played Batman Begins?:D
 
M

mrstereo

Enthusiast
I can't find the article, do you have a link? Unfortunatley the dvi-d cable was ran in the ceiling prior to building the system so this cable cannot be changed so that would only leave the option of getting the dvi-i to dvi-d adaptor if that would do anything is a roll of the dice.

Why cant they just handshake and all get along:) ?

Last time i checked radio shack didn't sale the analog spl meter anymore i had one many years ago in my car stereo days. Is there some particular scenes in batman begins you want me to refference to? also i do have the avia disc is that the best one to calibrate with?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I can't find the article, do you have a link? Unfortunatley the dvi-d cable was ran in the ceiling prior to building the system so this cable cannot be changed so that would only leave the option of getting the dvi-i to dvi-d adaptor if that would do anything is a roll of the dice.

Why cant they just handshake and all get along:) ?

Last time i checked radio shack didn't sale the analog spl meter anymore i had one many years ago in my car stereo days. Is there some particular scenes in batman begins you want me to refference to? also i do have the avia disc is that the best one to calibrate with?
I finally found the article I was thinking about. Wasn't easy:D
http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/audio-video-connections-guide

So, since your cable is prewired in the house, I think, if you have not already done so, use an DVI-I to DVI-D adaptor at the projector and a DVI-D to HDMI at the cable box or DVD player.

Ask Radio Shack for this, on line or in store. The analog is not discontinued:
Model: 33-4050 | Catalog #: 33-4050
$44.95 on line

http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=sound level meter&origkw=sound level meter&sr=1

Two impressive places to listen on Batman Begins: When the training castle blows up and towards the end when the train crashes and explodes in the underground garage. Just a test of the sub.:D

Why can't the handshake go smoothly? Asking the wrong person:D
 
M

mrstereo

Enthusiast
well the link says, "It wouldn't be uncommon for a manufacturer to use a DVI-I connector, as this receptacle will allow for the use of both DVI-I and DVI-D cables even if the analog transmission ability is never accessed." so i guess i could try the adaptor but i dont know that it would do anything but worth a shot, know a cheap site to pick it up? I dont see one on Monoprice.

That is crazy!! i tried to buy that spl meter from them when i got the avia disc, even went into the store and on the website!! i guess they brought it back by popular demand. I looked and dont have that dvd will see if i can borrow it.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
well the link says, "It wouldn't be uncommon for a manufacturer to use a DVI-I connector, as this receptacle will allow for the use of both DVI-I and DVI-D cables even if the analog transmission ability is never accessed." so i guess i could try the adaptor but i dont know that it would do anything but worth a shot, know a cheap site to pick it up? I dont see one on Monoprice.

That is crazy!! i tried to buy that spl meter from them when i got the avia disc, even went into the store and on the website!! i guess they brought it back by popular demand. I looked and dont have that dvd will see if i can borrow it.
Try parts express on line for the connector.
 
M

mrstereo

Enthusiast
It appears this adaptor is just about non existant, probably because dvi-d is supose to work. AAAHHGGG!!! so i called Denon today and i talked to someone that tells me hdmi 1.1 has a lot of handshaking problems and there is not much you can do about it:( PHEWY!! does anyone know if this is a fixable problem or is there realy nothing i can do about it?

I know i can eventualy get the sound excellent i listened to some music on it today and cranked it up and man those RBH can seriously rock the house!! Clean and smooth!! If i can just figure out the handshake problem!!! Anybody?? come on i know someone is reading this that can tell me something! ya you sitting there click that reply and tell me what you know..
 
M

mrstereo

Enthusiast
agarwalro
did you find anything on your 3806? any handshake problems?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
It appears this adaptor is just about non existant, probably because dvi-d is supose to work. AAAHHGGG!!! so i called Denon today and i talked to someone that tells me hdmi 1.1 has a lot of handshaking problems and there is not much you can do about it:( PHEWY!! does anyone know if this is a fixable problem or is there realy nothing i can do about it?

I know i can eventualy get the sound excellent i listened to some music on it today and cranked it up and man those RBH can seriously rock the house!! Clean and smooth!! If i can just figure out the handshake problem!!! Anybody?? come on i know someone is reading this that can tell me something! ya you sitting there click that reply and tell me what you know..

Try different turn on sequence of component and see what happens. Component cable possibility? :eek:
 
M

mrstereo

Enthusiast
Mtrycrafts you are the bomb! You were right on the $$ when you originaly brought up the handshake problem. I researched it and HOLY **** how could the industry let this problem happen and get so big??!! I have just read forever on this problem and it is just crazy! i will try different sequences and then also see how much different the component cables pq looks( luckily i ran more than one cable in the cieling). It appears the new hdmi and the HDCP is cuasing a whole heck of a big mess!! and what happens to people like us who spent the time researching our equipment and put down the money and have 1.1?? sorry need to vent a little. i will report back after testing and calming down a bit.

thanks again mtrycrafts
 
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