How do Yamaha 659 and Paradigm Studio 40 live together?

[chrenos]

Hi, Audiophytes!
Really need a good advice. Wanna upgrade my vintage front speakers with something that won't make me regret about for another 5yr period. Currently I have a Yamaha 659 receiver and an SVS-10 SW + other pieces of 5.1 setup (Infinity). The intent is to achieve rich punchy bass (lots) and hi's, crystal clear mids and compatibility with lots of styles (rock, prog-rock, classics, jazz, avantgarde, chill etc). Max height - up to 80cm (rotating platforms on the wall) - so they will have to be either big shelf or small on-floor ones.
So afr I'm considering Paradigm Sudio 40 (v3 or 4) as a starting point, but feel very uncertain about it as I've only READ about 'em + have very little knowledge about other frontal pairs.
What Alternatives may there be with top limit @$1k for a pair of frontals? Or is the choice good and solid?
Please, advice and thx in advance

 

[avaserfi]

I would talk to the member Greg Gable he has Studio 40's V.4 and used to power them with a V659 in his 8500 square foot room until he recently purchased an external amp.

From what I know he was and still is very happy with both his receiver and his speakers.

He is out of town right now, but if you PM him or wait until Monday I will make sure he sees this thread.

 

[chrenos]

but if you PM him or wait until Monday I will make sure he sees this thread.

Yep, f'sure I can wait - been waiting for years. And the thing is i don't wanna miss the ball this time (bored with changing components after every frustrative disappointment). Will be waiting and thanks.

 

[avaserfi]

Yep, f'sure I can wait - been waiting for years. And the thing is i don't wanna miss the ball this time (bored with changing components after every frustrative disappointment). Will be waiting and thanks.

No problem. I contacted Greg asking him to check this thread out when he is back. I know he is very happy with the speakers and receiver. The only reason he upgraded to an external amp is because his room is massive. I am sure he will give more enlightenment soon enough.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

Any chance to piggyback on this thread and get Greg's opinion on the 100's as well?

I'm wondering how well the Yamaha RX-V659 would do driving Paradigm Studio 100's (v2) and a CC-390 (v4). Primary use is music 98.5% of time.

The 100's are currently driven by an NAD C370 in my living room, but I'm thinking of move the 100's into my HT system and adding the CC-390.

I'm wondering (a) will the Yamaha 659 going do as good as my NAD C370 or (b) do I really need to also move the NAD into the system and use that as an "external amplifier" for the 100's but use the Yamaha to drive the center.

 

[j_garcia]

The 659 will not have enough power to drive them adequately in a medium to large room. It won't stand a chance with the 100s. I would continue to use the NAD to power them if that is your plan.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

(I'm not able to send PM's yet, so sorry I need to post this follow up in Chrenos' thread)


J_Garcia:


Thanks for your response to my message. That was kind of what I had suspected (even though the Yamaha is rated 100W / channel).

Quick follow up questions: for home theater use (especially multi-channel music), is the Yamaha OK to drive the CC-590 center channel if I'm using the NAD to drive the 100's on the L & R?

And if not, what do you recommend for the powering the center? Do I just replace the 659 entirely or do I instead get an external amp for the center?

Thaks,
Craig

 

[chrenos]

The 659 will not have enough power to drive them adequately in a medium to large room. It won't stand a chance with the 100s. I would continue to use the NAD to power them if that is your plan.

Let's say I'm trying to make a reasonable investment in big shelf speakers (meaning that then I'd have no need to change them for another good while for anything principally better). But the option of replacing the 659 Yammy with a more driving piece is plausible, f'sure (for an amp - and if there're any medium budget solutions, pls advise too).
So for a 21m2 room - will it be a near-descent temporary solution from these angles? Are Studio 40's good enough on their price level? How do they produce music in medium size halls?
thanx

 

[jcPanny]

Stereo Amp

An entry level amp like the Behringer A500 ($180 shipped) would deliver over 200 Watts to the 4 ohm paradigms and lighten the load of your Yamaha receiver. I also had a similar yamaha receiver (HTR-5860) driving 4 ohm mains for a while. It worked fine for moderate levels in my small room but this is not ideal for reference levels in a large room.

 

[j_garcia]

Quick follow up questions: for home theater use (especially multi-channel music), is the Yamaha OK to drive the CC-590 center channel if I'm using the NAD to drive the 100's on the L & R?

And if not, what do you recommend for the powering the center? Do I just replace the 659 entirely or do I instead get an external amp for the center?

I'd say the 659 would probably be pushing it a little with the 590, but with whichever mains being powered by another amp it might be OK. I'd try it before buying an amp just for that. If you are using ADPs for surrounds, that might put more demand as well. All of my speakers are 4 Ohm and just offloading the 2 mains to amps allow me to drive my system to very high levels without issue compared to without where you could hear the distortion during any busy passages (mostly multichannel music).

Let's say I'm trying to make a reasonable investment in big shelf speakers (meaning that then I'd have no need to change them for another good while for anything principally better). But the option of replacing the 659 Yammy with a more driving piece is plausible, f'sure (for an amp - and if there're any medium budget solutions, pls advise too).
So for a 21m2 room - will it be a near-descent temporary solution from these angles? Are Studio 40's good enough on their price level? How do they produce music in medium size halls?
thanx

Studios are good speakers, but I'd be looking for an amp for the front stage (LCR) or a beefier receiver to power a full Studio setup. What price range are we looking at? You might consider a separate thread for your question because yours is a different situation than the current poster.

An entry level amp like the Behringer A500 ($180 shipped) would deliver over 200 Watts to the 4 ohm paradigms and lighten the load of your Yamaha receiver. I also had a similar yamaha receiver (HTR-5860) driving 4 ohm mains for a while. It worked fine for moderate levels in my small room but this is not ideal for reference levels in a large room.

Most or all of the Studios are techincally 8 Ohm speakers, though all of them dip relatively low and demand a fair amount of current.

The A500s have one limitation, the inability to be triggered automatically and while a small thing, it is something that would exclude it from my personal choices. You could use some other sort of triggering though, like a power center or plug strip thus equipped.

 

[PENG]

As John said, the Studio's impedances may dip below 4 ohms at certain frequencies but their nominal values (they say "compatible with 8 ohms) are 8 ohms over its frequency response range. I would add that most speakers impedance don't dip much at the low frequencies that typically demand higher currents. The Studios love more power not because of its impedance characteristics. It has more to do with its not too high sensitivity of 88 dB anechoic and the fact that there are four 7" drivers to feed. A few years ago I auditioned a pair (fronts ONLY) of Studio 100 V3 powered by a RX-V2400 and was very impressed with the sound quality. The 659, being a smaller/lower model, will likely struggle, unless it is in a smaller room.

 

[chrenos]

What price range are we looking at? You might consider a separate thread for your question because yours is a different situation than the current poster.

1. My current budget for the frontal pair is @$800-1000. I will also consider buying up an amp too in near future, so your advice on the model is very appreciated.
2. If I got you right, this A500 thing is to be hooked up to the linear out of the Yammy and connected to the Studios (to lessen the load). Is it a simple task (meaning technically - w/o any mod's and stuff)? Should i need to play only the frontals (pure stereo) will the Yammy need to be powered up (meaning all the time), or the signal transfers w/o that as well? How good A500's are with delivering lumpy and juicy sound on the Studios? The price appears surprisingly low.
That said, I mean, upon puirchasing the Studios and A500 you reckon I may finally find my great sound nirvana (al laaaaast )? Please, advise.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

No one knows what will sounds like nirvana to you. My advice is audtion as many speakers as you can and decide what you like. It is best to take them home and see how they sound there.

The studio 40's will be fine with 659 without an ext. amp unless you play at really high volumes. I would start out without an amp and then you can decide later down he road if you want/need an amp.

Yes an amp is simple to hook up and use. You just run an audio cable from the pre-out of the 659 to the amp and connect your speakers to the amp. Like they said before; the a500 doesnt have a trigger so you have to manually turn it on but otherwise it is a great amp.

1. My current budget for the frontal pair is @$800-1000. I will also consider buying up an amp too in near future, so your advice on the model is very appreciated.
2. If I got you right, this A500 thing is to be hooked up to the linear out of the Yammy and connected to the Studios (to lessen the load). Is it a simple task (meaning technically - w/o any mod's and stuff)? Should i need to play only the frontals (pure stereo) will the Yammy need to be powered up (meaning all the time), or the signal transfers w/o that as well? How good A500's are with delivering lumpy and juicy sound on the Studios? The price appears surprisingly low.
That said, I mean, upon puirchasing the Studios and A500 you reckon I may finally find my great sound nirvana (al laaaaast )? Please, advise.

 

[chrenos]

The studio 40's will be fine with 659 without an ext. amp unless you play at really high volumes. I would start out without an amp and then you can decide later down he road if you want/need an amp.

Thanks for dotting the eyes, Greg .
Since NOBODY have said a bad word re. P-Studio 40's, I think I'll settle with them for now (hopefully for good). Just clarify pls, what's the diff between v.3 & v.4 (in the 40's) - only v.4 is available for ordering. Are they OK compared to older things?

And I'll keep looking for a surplus amp. Anyway I'll share my opinion once I lay my ears on the new installation.
Cheers

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Yes, the v-3 is an older model. The man difference is a new, better tweeter in the v-4. Since you are spending money on new speakers, I would spend the extra $200-300 for the v-4. Divide that out over the next 10-15 years that you will keep these speakers and it's not much money.

Thanks for dotting the eyes, Greg .
Since NOBODY have said a bad word re. P-Studio 40's, I think I'll settle with them for now (hopefully for good). Just clarify pls, what's the diff between v.3 & v.4 (in the 40's) - only v.4 is available for ordering. Are they OK compared to older things?

And I'll keep looking for a surplus amp. Anyway I'll share my opinion once I lay my ears on the new installation.
Cheers

 

[chrenos]

Yes, the v-3 is an older model. The man difference is a new, better tweeter in the v-4. Since you are spending money on new speakers, I would spend the extra $200-300 for the v-4. Divide that out over the next 10-15 years that you will keep these speakers and it's not much money.

Yes, that was the plan - to invest in good sound - which i did. Got me those Studio 40's v.4 (rosenuts). Bi-wired, installed on on-wall rotating platforms. Powered the set up. WHAT A DRAMATIC DIFFERENCE AND ENHANCEMENT!!! The scene (with a good CD) is very clear and light. the bass is all there now (supported with SVS-10 of course). All in all I'm very pleased with the results of the upgrade (stage 1).
Noticed that while working on volumed up material the Yamie now becomes pretty warm (think i know why).
Cet'nly the density of bass isn't quite as deep as it used to be with my late stereo amp, but think A500 (stage 2) should manage that.

So yes, Paradigm Studio did quench my good sound thirst. Thanx for the advices. Will keep the pair warm and be looking for a helping A500.
Cheers!

 

[mazersteven]

Bi-wired

My understanding is there is absolutely no advantage of Bi-Wiring speakers. .

 

[chrenos]

My understanding is there is absolutely no advantage of Bi-Wiring speakers. .

I don't mean to argue about Bi-Wi physics here. I just did it that way (w/o experimenting) cause the manual advised to do so (for enhancing clarity and better bass output). In any case the quality of sound is superb now as far as I can tell - compared to what I had with the Yammy before (as long as the source material is good). Have the impression though that more "dirty" rock CD's (say early 70-s hard rock) sound relatively more inferior, but my guess is that's the original source quality problem - at least partially (LZ or DP albums of 70-75 period).

 

[j_garcia]

BiAMPING, not bi-wiring. Bi-wiring does nothing since you are still connected to the same amp channel for both binding posts.

 

[chrenos]

BiAMPING, not bi-wiring. Bi-wiring does nothing since you are still connected to the same amp channel for both binding posts.

Yeah, but the manual does refer to both options (are they stupid then or what?). And bi-amping requires another (identical) receiver which I don't have. Or does the gist mean that there's a way to bi-amp the frontals with just 1 receiver? Enlighten, please