Gordon Brockhouse talks to Sunfire’s Bob Carver (AMPLIFIERS)

[jonnythan]

Yes, seriously. Some like coke and maybe pepsi recently admitted it and had a code, abbreviation on their bottled water, indicating standard domestic water supply, city water. This made the news not long ago, last few month perhaps?
Next time see if you can find codes on it someplace. It might be an abbreviation for community water supply, domestic water supply or something similarly trans-coded from the initials as that is all they use, not spelled out.

Coke and Pepsi were never doing anything deceptive. They never "admitted they had a code" that indicated domestic water.

The ingredients simply said "purified water" which is what is in the bottle. Everyone has known since the introduction of Dasani and Aquafina that the water is not spring water. It doesn't say spring water anywhere on the bottle. It's purified municipal water from the same source as the water the local bottling plant makes Coca-Cola and Pepsi with.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Coke and Pepsi were never doing anything deceptive. They never "admitted they had a code" that indicated domestic water.

The ingredients simply said "purified water" which is what is in the bottle. Everyone has known since the introduction of Dasani and Aquafina that the water is not spring water. It doesn't say spring water anywhere on the bottle. It's purified municipal water from the same source as the water the local bottling plant makes Coca-Cola and Pepsi with.

So is the city water supply purified?

Is Wal-Mart distalled water better?

 

[jonnythan]

Bottling plants do additional filtering to the water that goes into Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Aquafina, etc. Yes.

Distilled water is not good for drinking. It tastes like crap. It's best used for things like irons, car batteries, and car cooling systems because it has no dissolved minerals that can be corrosive or clog up steam vents.

Aquafina and Dasani are fine for drinking. The "outrage" is that it costs so much per bottle. If you're out at the store and want a nice cold bottle of water, there's obviously nothing wrong with buying a bottle of Aquafina out of the vending machine. It's no more or less healthy than Evian or Poland Spring or any other brand of spring water.

The silly thing is buying a case of Aquafina because it's so much more expensive than simply filling bottles out of your tap.

I buy cases of Poland Spring because it's really cheap, I don't have to refill bottles (although I do occasionally, especially at the gym), and it just plain tastes better than my local tap water or Aquafina. It's actual spring water, not filtered tap water.

 

[Seth=L]

You mean like having 15amp instead of 20amp circuits?
I notice some amplifiers require 20amp. Some like the Outlaw Audio 300wpc amplifier require two 15amp outlets. Why?

The output current of a circuit limits the power that all your amplifiers can consume at a given moment. Lets say your whole system is run off just one or two 20 amp circuits. You are limited to that current, actually less (I don't remember how many amps the amplifiers cut short off for safety reasons). If each amp can consume up to 15 amps that comes out to be 60 amps total, it would not be possible for all the amplifiers to take that much energy at once, if they tried to for much longer than a very brief moment, the breaker would default.

I know that the info I just posted is not 100% correct, if someone that understands the circuits better could fix it I am sure it would be appreciated by all parties.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The output current of a circuit limits the power that all your amplifiers can consume at a given moment. Lets say your whole system is run off just one or two 20 amp circuits. You are limited to that current, actually less (I don't remember how many amps the amplifiers cut short off for safety reasons). If each amp can consume up to 15 amps that comes out to be 60 amps total, it would not be possible for all the amplifiers to take that much energy at once, if they tried to for much longer than a very brief moment, the breaker would default.

I know that the info I just posted is not 100% correct, if someone that understands the circuits better could fix it I am sure it would be appreciated by all parties.

Yeah, I was kind of afraid of that. I don't know how to put it in words either, but I kind of doubt that I'm actually utilizing all those power in the amplifiers.
So what would I need to accomodate all that power? 4 different 20 amps outlets, one for each amp?

 

[Seth=L]

Yeah, I was kind of afraid of that. I don't know how to put it in words either, but I kind of doubt that I'm actually utilizing all those power in the amplifiers.
So what would I need to accomodate all that power? 4 different 20 amps outlets, one for each amp?

Ideally, yes, but like you said, you probably don't ever use that much.

 

[avaserfi]

Yeah, I was kind of afraid of that. I don't know how to put it in words either, but I kind of doubt that I'm actually utilizing all those power in the amplifiers.
So what would I need to accomodate all that power? 4 different 20 amps outlets, one for each amp?

You could do what my dad just did. He is in the process of building a home theater and their house has a dedicated room (poorly designed), but only had one outlet which was 20 amps but was shared with another room. So he went ahead and ran the wire for two more 20 amp circuits. Originally he was just going to do one, but got a pretty good deal on the wire and called me laughing saying he ended up with two "by accident" . Now whatever components he has should be unrestrained .

So just add in 5 more 20 amps and you will be good to go .

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...but only had one outlet which was 20 amps but was shared with another room. So he went ahead and ran the wire for two more 20 amp circuits.

So just add in 5 more 20 amps and you will be good to go .

I guess I could do that if I ever get bored.

Do you think the builder would think I'm crazy if I said to him, "I want every single outlet in my house to be 20-amps"?
Are 20-amps more dangerous than 15-amps?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Spl

Ideally, yes, but like you said, you probably don't ever use that much.

I have my volume at about 20% of max for both music and movies. When I use the SPL meter, the level range reads 80-90 dBA (slow response). This is pretty safe for the ears, right?

So how much power do you estimate is actually being used (300-watts RMS @ 4 ohms)?

 

[Seth=L]

I have my volume at about 20% of max for both music and movies. When I use the SPL meter, the level range reads 80-90 dBA (slow response). This is pretty safe for the ears, right?

So how much power do you estimate is actually being used (300-watts RMS @ 4 ohms)?

LOL, if you are getting readings around 80-90 you are using about 10 watts nominally. Do you have the towers running off a dedicated LFE or just full range input to each one? You may have peaks approaching 100 watts during transients. I can take my BICs to a few decibels past 100 dB using my Teac 25 watt x 2 CR-H220 cd/receiver without it binding up on me. You are well within your limits.

Now, take Resident Evil Apocolypse DVD. It has some very pressing tones in it that can kill weak parts of components. I was watching it at near reference levels with a rig and my M&K MX-100 blew up. The 200 watt RMS rated integrated circuit (output device) was crippled by extreme loads. The woofers played the tone with absolute grace until it was suddenly silenced. The Carver amplifier I had also shut off (protect mode, amp was fine) because of the load. So it isn't like your amplifiers are pointless, they have their fine points.

And yes, safe for your ears.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

LOL, if you are getting readings around 80-90 you are using about 10 watts nominally. Do you have the towers running off a dedicated LFE or just full range input to each one? You may have peaks approaching 100 watts during transients. I can take my BICs to a few decibels past 100 dB using my Teac 25 watt x 2 CR-H220 cd/receiver without it binding up on me. You are well within your limits.

Now, take Resident Evil Apocolypse DVD. It has some very pressing tones in it that can kill weak parts of components. I was watching it at near reference levels with a rig and my M&K MX-100 blew up. The 200 watt RMS rated integrated circuit (output device) was crippled by extreme loads. The woofers played the tone with absolute grace until it was suddenly silenced. The Carver amplifier I had also shut off (protect mode, amp was fine) because of the load. So it isn't like your amplifiers are pointless, they have their fine points.

And yes, safe for your ears.

I have my towers at full range (speaker wires) plus the dedicated LFE (Coaxial cable).

I don't understand the 200-watts RMS rated integrated circuit (output device). What is this device?

So the transient peaks went above 200 watts?
But the Carver amplifier was rated for less than 200-watts RMS?
And it blew up the subwoofer?

So if you crank up the volume (preamplifier) and the amplifier doesn't have enough power, then the speakers will blow?
So that's why it's better to have more power than not enough.

But the amplifiers don't blow?

 

[mtrycrafts]

So is the city water supply purified?

Is Wal-Mart distalled water better?

Purified? Distilled?

I don't think you want to drink water that is labeled as 'distilled' the one used in irons
You do need minerals in your system.
The others mentioned, used initials of the source, not codes as such unrelated to the source. While they may not have been trying to totally hide the source, they certainly didn't spell it out longhand that municipal water was used. And, then the question becomes, what did they take out of the municipal water in their process that needed to be taken out? Or, is 'purified' really mean anything since the municipal water is purified as well.

We'll see how their water sales is affected, not hat it really matters. But, the more good info the public has, the better choices they can make. Certainly those bottled water was rather expensive compared to the the inexpensive muni water

 

[jonnythan]

So if you crank up the volume (preamplifier) and the amplifier doesn't have enough power, then the speakers will blow?
So that's why it's better to have more power than not enough.

But the amplifiers don't blow?

You'll get clipping, which is essentially taking the signal and squaring the top portion of the waves.

This is very, very hard on drivers and is generally responsible for blown speakers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio)

It's easier to blow a speaker by asking too much of a low-power amp than it is by simply feeding the speaker too much power in a clean signal.

You can blow a speaker rated for 100 watts RMS by feeding it a clipped 25 watt input.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I guess I could do that if I ever get bored.

Do you think the builder would think I'm crazy if I said to him, "I want every single outlet in my house to be 20-amps"?
Are 20-amps more dangerous than 15-amps?

No, 20A are not more dangerous. But, your electric panel will look like an industrial plant with rows of breakers

If you never tripped your breaker so far, what is the worry?

The probability of you maxing out your amps at the same instant is rather slim The caps in those amps also helps you minimize the need.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Bottling plants do additional filtering to the water that goes into Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Aquafina, etc. Yes.

.

Once you add all the colorings, tastes, sugars, etc, I doubt anyone could tell if additional filtering was there or even needed.

 

[jonnythan]

They don't add coloring and sugar to Aquafina

They do some additional filtering on the water, though. Part of Coca-Cola's and Pepsi's standards.

 

[mtrycrafts]

They don't add coloring and sugar to Aquafina
.

Yes, of course, that should have been deleted from the quote

 

[Seth=L]

I have my towers at full range (speaker wires) plus the dedicated LFE (Coaxial cable).

I don't understand the 200-watts RMS rated integrated circuit (output device). What is this device?

So the transient peaks went above 200 watts?
But the Carver amplifier was rated for less than 200-watts RMS?
And it blew up the subwoofer?

So if you crank up the volume (preamplifier) and the amplifier doesn't have enough power, then the speakers will blow?
So that's why it's better to have more power than not enough.

But the amplifiers don't blow?

The subwoofer has a built in amplifier. The amplifier is comprised of three principle parts, power supply (transformer), reservoir capacitors, and an output device (transistor chipset). In the case of the M&K subwoofer it has a very large power supply, 40,000 uF of capacitance (more than enough for large transients), and the output device is a Sanyo Integrated Circuit. The Integrated Circuit (IC) is rated for 200 watts RMS @ 8 ohms. When lower frequencies are played the woofer moves more and lowers the impedance to dangerous levels (my subwoofer should have a low frequency filter to keep the lowest inaudible frequencies from playing to prevent damage, I will be making one for it once I get it fixed to prevent it from blowing up again). This just kills that amplifier or rather its weakest part, the IC, which has blown a total of 3 times now.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

No, 20A are not more dangerous. But, your electric panel will look like an industrial plant with rows of breakers

If you never tripped your breaker so far, what is the worry?

The probability of you maxing out your amps at the same instant is rather slim The caps in those amps also helps you minimize the need.

Actually, I have tripped my breaker numerous times before when I was using my SharpVision projector while the air conditioner was on and all my components were on. All the lights and electricity went out. I have not had this problem since I replaced my projector with the Mitsubishi DLP HDTV. But you never know. I might one day buy a HD projector.

Hmmm. I think "industrial plant with rows of breakers" will look pretty cool.

 

[Seth=L]

Actually, I have tripped my breaker numerous times before when I was using my SharpVision projector while the air conditioner was on and all my components were on. All the lights and electricity went out. I have not had this problem since I replaced my projector with the Mitsubishi DLP HDTV. But you never know. I might one day buy a HD projector.

Hmmm. I think "industrial plant with rows of breakers" will look pretty cool.

A small DLP projector should take less electricity than the SharpVision and possibly the TV you have now.