Seeking approval

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Upscaling: When you take a 480 image and make it 720/1080. This is what makes it fit on the screen properly.

So when you take a 480p DVD and play it on a 1080p HDTV, does is not FIT the screen? When I play plain old SD 480p on a NON-UPSCALING DVD Player (my Sony SACD/DVD player) on my HDTV, it fits it perfectly in widescreen.
Does this mean my picture is now 1080p?
Of course NOT. It's still 480p because I did not play it on a 1080p upscaling DVD player.

ALL HDTV will UPCONVERT everything so that it will FIT the screen. But it does not UPSCALE anything to 1080p. That's why we need an UPSCALING DVD player. Otherwise, why would we even need such features in DVD players?

Maybe my wordings are not professional. Bottom line is, UPCONVERTING does NOT change 480p to 1080p.
It is UPSCALING that changes 480p to 1080p.
So if a receiver has just UPCONVERSION, it is NOT UPSCALING.
The Onkyo 805 will UPCONVERT, but it will NOT UPSCALE. The Onkyo 875 will UPCONVERT & UPSCALE.

Right?

 

[avaserfi]

So when you take a 480p DVD and play it on a 1080p HDTV, does is not FIT the screen? When I play plain old SD 480p on a NON-UPSCALING DVD Player (my Sony SACD/DVD player) on my HDTV, it fits it perfectly in widescreen.
Does this mean my picture is now 1080p?
Of course NOT. It's still 480p because I did not play it on a 1080p upscaling DVD player.

Your TV will scale the image even if your DVD player doesn't. The reason most people buy an upscaling DVD player is because generally TVs don't do a good job deinterlacing or scaling. That is why a 480 source will fit a 1080 display.

Any image you display on a 1080p display is in 1080p it just might not natively be so. Same goes for a 720p display. (with this I am referring to Fixed Pixel displays as CRT is another beast).

ALL HDTV will UPCONVERT everything so that it will FIT the screen. But it does not UPSCALE anything to 1080p. That's why we need an UPSCALING DVD player. Otherwise, why would we even need such features in DVD players?

Again, they upscale, not upconvert. See above as to why people purchase these players.

Maybe my wordings are not professional. Bottom line is, UPCONVERTING does NOT change 480p to 1080p.
It is UPSCALING that changes 480p to 1080p.
So if a receiver has just UPCONVERSION, it is NOT UPSCALING.
The Onkyo 805 will UPCONVERT, but it will NOT UPSCALE. The Onkyo 875 will UPCONVERT & UPSCALE.

Right?

Your last statement is correct, but you contradict yourself with it. You say upconversion will take an image and make it fit a screen when that is a change of resolution. You are confusing terminology. Please reread all the PMs I have sent you and clarify the definitions.

Again, if you change an image from 480 to 1080p you are upscaling which fits the image to a displays screen. Upconversion is when you take a lower form of connectivity (s-video) and output the lower form signal via a higher form (HDMI).

edit: I suggest you read this article as it will explain the situation in more depth.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

edit: I suggest you read this article as it will explain the situation in more depth.

We know about upscaling.

What is Audioholic's definition of UPCONVERSION?

 

[Adam]

What is Audioholic's definition of UPCONVERSION?

Andrew nailed it when he wrote, "Upconversion is when you take a lower form of connectivity (s-video) and output the lower form signal via a higher form (HDMI)." Upconversion just allows a receiver to output the video signal through a different ("higher", if you prefer) type of connection than what you used for your video input.

This thread has enlightened me. I thought that the 805 upscaled, but after reading this thread, I went back through the Onkyo literature. Indeed, it does not (if I read it correctly). Good to know as it may influence my decision to buy it. However, as Andrew said, a 1080p TV already upscales an incoming image if required. Deciding which scaler to use (TV, DVD, receiver) just depends on which one does a better job.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Andrew nailed it when he wrote, "Upconversion is when you take a lower form of connectivity (s-video) and output the lower form signal via a higher form (HDMI)." Upconversion just allows a receiver to output the video signal through a different ("higher", if you prefer) type of connection than what you used for your video input.

This thread has enlightened me. I thought that the 805 upscaled, but after reading this thread, I went back through the Onkyo literature. Indeed, it does not (if I read it correctly). Good to know as it may influence my decision to buy it. However, as Andrew said, a 1080p TV already upscales an incoming image if required. Deciding which scaler to use (TV, DVD, receiver) just depends on which one does a better job.

Yes, thanks to Andrew!
I got it now.
So when people say, "upconversion", we need to ask them, "do you mean upconversion or upscaling? These are two different things."

 

[velcrometer]

However, as Andrew said, a 1080p TV already upscales an incoming image if required. Deciding which scaler to use (TV, DVD, receiver) just depends on which one does a better job.

So, if you have to decide which scaler to use, (TV, DVD, reciever) which receiver would you get if your DVD player is HD, & if not HD? Can you/should you downgrade the receiver if you have HD DVD?

 

[Davemcc]

Andrew nailed it when he wrote, "Upconversion is when you take a lower form of connectivity (s-video) and output the lower form signal via a higher form (HDMI)

I've always called this action transcoding from one format to another.

The way the term upconversion is used in the consumer market is simply a catch-all phrase for any number of processing activities a unit may do.

It can upscale from 480 to 1080.
It can deinterlace from 480i to 480p.
It can transcode from component to HDMI.

Any combination of the above might be marketed as upconversion.

I could be wrong, but that's the way I learned it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

"It can upscale from 480 to 1080. It can deinterlace from 480i to 480p. It can transcode from component to HDMI. Any combination of the above might be marketed as upconversion."


Sounds good to me.

Q. What is upconversion?
A. All of the above.

 

[Morticae]

Thanks for the clarification guys. I had a feeling "upconversion" might be a bit of marketing magic since I've seen it used to describe things that appear to me to be dissimilar.

My Westinghouse paired with the DirecTV HR-20 does a perfectly adequate job of upscaling, but it is not perfect. Even with a native 1080i image, you will have issues with the de-interlacing producing jagged artifacts. You can never completely solve this problem, but certain algorithms (split-frame dithering, etc) can soften its effects. These more advanced video processing algorithms are not generally found in the TV itself, so it helps to run all your video through a dedicated processor. I was under the impression that the Onkyo 705 series did at least basic processing, but that is incorrect.

I'll probably still get the Onkyo... I'll just have to look into an in-line processor.

 

[Davemcc]

I'll probably still get the Onkyo... I'll just have to look into an in-line processor.

For some reason, video processors are just ungodly expensive. Personally, I think you would be best served to simply move up to a Reon HQV equipped Onkyo or Integra. The extra couple hundred bucks is nothing compared to the $3K for a dedicated video scaler/deinterlacer.

If you were to go this route, the only thing to add to the video chain would be a mosquito noise and compression artifact reducer, like the Algolith Flea, for your broadcast sources.