Subwoofer for 2 channel system

[Mweber]

Hi I'm new to this forum. I'm interested in augmenting my 2 channel stereo (music only) with a subwoofer. My speakers are Sonus faber domus grand pianos. A couple of audio shops are pushing REL, but they don't sound quit right - sort of muddy. Any suggestions? I don't want amassive box.

 

[mike c]

Velodyne DD series
Velodyne SPL-R series
Martin Logan subwoofers

 

[j_garcia]

Price range? Room size?

Take a look at the offerings from www.svsound.com and www.hsuresearch.com

 

[Mweber]

Room size and budget...

Room size is 8ft x 12 x 18, and my budget is anything up to about $1800. Yikes!

 

[avaserfi]

Room size is 8ft x 12 x 18, and my budget is anything up to about $1800. Yikes!

No question in my eyes. With that budget you should get the SVS Ultra-13. For a room your size it is likely overkill, but it will hit the lows and higher lows very musically .

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb13ultra.cfm

 

[Adam]

No question in my eyes. With that budget you should get the SVS Ultra-13. For a room your size it is likely overkill, but it will hit the lows and higher lows very musically .

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb13ultra.cfm

An excellent, excellent sub...but that might just qualify as a "massive box."

If you're interested in the Ultra, also check out the PC13-Ultra. The cylinder is taller, but it takes up less floor space and is significantly lighter (so easier to move). I got a PC13-Ultra and think that it sounds great. I also like the looks of it.

 

[j_garcia]

The PB-13 is definitely a monster, but it looks good too If the size and weight will meet your needs, otherwise the cylinder version would be the way to go. It is one heck of a sub.

 

[Mweber]

Will try SVS SB12

Thanks guys, wife willing, I'm going to try the SB12. THD appears to be much much less than the REL below 30ish hz.

 

[no. 5]

If it's only for music, how much content will even be below 30Hz?

The JL Audio F110 is just a bit over your budget, but it's probably worth at least an audition. Mike C's suggestions should prove to be satisfactory too, personally, I'm not sure you need a SVS or a Hsu for your application, as they typical have a large box, and more bass extension than would be needed.

 

[mazersteven]

An excellent, excellent sub...but that might just qualify as a "massive box."

From the pictures I've seen of the Ultra it's not that massive. It's definitely not your average Supercube, but it's no where near a PB12-Plus/2.

 

[j_garcia]

It isn't as big as I expected, but it isn't exactly "small" either

 

[Mweber]

Maybe a sub ain't necessary....we shall see

Last night I turned down the cross-over to about 27hz, and also lowered the volume or gain, that really helped. Then I repositioned the speakers: I bit further apart, one closer to the corner, a bit of toe-in and that also gave an improvement in base and soundstage. Okay now for the embarassing part; I had the interconnects between the CD player and integrated amp "pointed" in the wrong direction. Flipping them 180 also improved the sound - but maybe not the bass. . So then I turned off the REL and the difference with and without was not very important. I think I'll slow down on this subwoofer and learn to use/position etc. my new system before dropping lots of money on something that may not be necessary.

 

[rnatalli]

No question in my eyes. With that budget you should get the SVS Ultra-13. For a room your size it is likely overkill, but it will hit the lows and higher lows very musically .

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb13ultra.cfm

Have to go with the SVS as well. It's an awesome sub!

 

[Dolby CP-200]

Setting the phase crossover setting and volume level does make a fundamental difference otherwise you’d have really nasty peaks that overwhelm the rest of the frequency response or mask other tones in the range.

You’d notice the difference is using an SPL db metre and while switching the sub (on and off) you’ll note where the lower end of the frequency spectrum is lacking depth. I was doing a similar thing last night with “Poseidon” (2006) whilst only testing the sub bass extension just before the rouge wave struck the ocean liner.

“Can you feel that?”

 

[no. 5]

Out of curiosity, what kind of music are you listening too? Unless you are listening to pipe organ recordings, setting the crossover to 27Hz would mean that the sub is doing just about nothing.

And I highly doubt that flipping the cables made a real change...

 

[annunaki]

Unless one is using an 18" driver for all but the lowest frequencies I cannot see a 27hz crossover point ever being useful. I would suggest setting it at around 50hz-60hz if your speakers play fairly deep.

 

[Mweber]

Cross over point and music

After repositioning the speakers, the bass is more apparent without the sub, and so I have to re-evaluate the purchase.

My speakers are rated to 30Hz, so if I set the crossover above that point, at 50 as suggested, I assume that the sub will in theory enhance the music, or perhaps detract from it? I'm out of town right now (in Campbell River BC - really exotic) so listening and evaluating will have to wait a few hours.

But tuning the sub and stereo to my room is more involved than I thought. Any advice?

My music tasts tend to run through the spectrum

 

[OttoMatic]

But tuning the sub and stereo to my room is more involved than I thought. Any advice?

Hi there.

I'd suggest getting REW (it's a free download) and doing some room measurements. This will tell you where your peaks and valleys are, especially as applied to the 15 - 200 Hz region. It was a real eye opener for me. Most people find that their bass response isn't that hot, and one or two peaks are dominating their sound.

Unless you are one of the lucky few with excellent bass response, you will then likely want to fix your frequency response problem. Two very common choices are the Behringer BFD and the Velodyne SMS-1. There are myriad differences between the two, but in general the BFD is cheaper (<$100), extremely tweakable and has a steeper learning curve. The SMS-1 is more expensive (I think list is $600, but they can be found for ~$450, IIRC) and it's more automated, but less tweakable. I have lots of firsthand experience with the BFD, and zero with the SMS-1, but I understand that the SMS-1 is a great product.

You can find REW here and excellent documentation on the BFD here.

Good luck!