Which should I try: Axiom M22, Ascend 340, Swan 2.1 ?

[AbyssalLoris]

Some of you might know that I've been looking at bookshelf speakers for a few weeks now. Music reproduction is important. I'm sure HT performance will be adequate for almost anything I pick.

My price point has stretched to $450/pr.

Among speakers I could listen to locally I have picked one (barring a couple of more stores I haven't gone to). The models I auditioned were:

B&W old and new 600 series (probably the cheapest model - i don't know)
Klipsch (some models i don't know)
Monitor Audio Silver RS1 and old series Silver S2
Paradigm Mini Monitor and Studio 20 v3 (old version)
Polk RTi6 and RTi8
PSB Image B25 (and the T45 but I'm not really considering towers)

Of these, my pick is the Monitor Audio Silver S2.

I want to pick one of the well reviewed Internet-direct (ID) speakers and try it to see if I prefer it over the MA. The winner will be the one I keep. The 3 ID candidates are the Axiom M22 v2, Ascend CMT-340SE, and the original Swan Diva 2.1. I would have loved to include something from AV123 but there is nothing I can afford other than the X-LS and the Reference 0.5. It is my belief that many of the other models I'm considering are better speakers than the X-LS and as far as the Ref .5 is concerned, it does not seem to compete with some others in the lower end of frequencies.

To me, the most important SQ parameters are:

1. It should not be too harsh (or bright). I tend to fatigue very easily and these qualities in a speaker wear me out real quick. With smoother, mellow sounding speakers I can listen for a relatively long time. This is not to be confused with lack of volume or bass or anything like that.

2. Boomy bass is not good. I'd rather the speaker did 65Hz reasonably well than 45Hz boomily. After all, I will be getting a sub.

3. A large soundstage (by which I mean spatial coverage) is also good.

So relatively speaking, which one of these 3 speakers would you recommend?

Thanks for reading my really long post! I know I'm beginning to tire most of you out, but please indulge me .

 

[bass addict]

I am a huge fan of Axioms, but if you are against a "bright" sounding speaker you will not like them. While I wouldn't call Axiom's bright by any means, they are true to the source. They are extremely accurate and thus not very forgiving of subpar masters.

 

[Soundman]

I wish I could help. That's what I'm considering right now. Axiom or Ascend. I will say that the 340se's are a more expensive speaker than the m22's, so they should be better, but they have a very diff. sound from what i hear. I know the 340's are for large rooms, hence the dual 6.5" woofers. I've heard people compare the 340SE's to the M60's, which is saying something since the m60's cost a bit more, being a true tower. If I was choosing for music reproduction, I would be getting the ascends, but since I'm putting together a mainly HT setup I'm considering the Axioms b/c of the more forward sound supposedly. The Ascends are suppose to be detailed and spacious. Of course, I haven't heard either, so you know how that is. It seems many people's perception of sound can be vastly different. I may end up ordering a pair of each and sending back the loser, so that's what you may end up doing too. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. We're in the same boat. I thought it interesting that we are looking at the same speakers.

 

[Soundman]

I wish I could help. That's what I'm considering right now. Axiom or Ascend. I will say that the 340se's are a more expensive speaker than the m22's, so they should be better, but they have a very diff. sound from what i hear. I know the 340's are for large rooms, hence the dual 6.5" woofers. I've heard people compare the 340SE's to the M60's, which is saying something since the m60's cost a bit more, being a true tower. If I was choosing for music reproduction, I would be getting the ascends, but since I'm putting together a mainly HT setup I'm considering the Axioms b/c of the more forward sound supposedly. The Ascends are suppose to be detailed and spacious. Of course, I haven't heard either, so you know how that is. It seems many people's perception of sound can be vastly different. I may end up ordering a pair of each and sending back the loser, so that's what you may end up doing too. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. We're in the same boat. I thought it interesting that we are looking at the same speakers.

I also looked at the Swans.

 

[3db]

Don't pick the Axioms if you haven't chosen the PSB

Some of you might know that I've been looking at bookshelf speakers for a few weeks now. Music reproduction is important. I'm sure HT performance will be adequate for almost anything I pick.

My price point has stretched to $450/pr.

Among speakers I could listen to locally I have picked one (barring a couple of more stores I haven't gone to). The models I auditioned were:

B&W old and new 600 series (probably the cheapest model - i don't know)
Klipsch (some models i don't know)
Monitor Audio Silver RS1 and old series Silver S2
Paradigm Mini Monitor and Studio 20 v3 (old version)
Polk RTi6 and RTi8
PSB Image B25 (and the T45 but I'm not really considering towers)

Of these, my pick is the Monitor Audio Silver S2.

I want to pick one of the well reviewed Internet-direct (ID) speakers and try it to see if I prefer it over the MA. The winner will be the one I keep. The 3 ID candidates are the Axiom M22 v2, Ascend CMT-340SE, and the original Swan Diva 2.1. I would have loved to include something from AV123 but there is nothing I can afford other than the X-LS and the Reference 0.5. It is my belief that many of the other models I'm considering are better speakers than the X-LS and as far as the Ref .5 is concerned, it does not seem to compete with some others in the lower end of frequencies.

To me, the most important SQ parameters are:

1. It should not be too harsh (or bright). I tend to fatigue very easily and these qualities in a speaker wear me out real quick. With smoother, mellow sounding speakers I can listen for a relatively long time. This is not to be confused with lack of volume or bass or anything like that.

2. Boomy bass is not good. I'd rather the speaker did 65Hz reasonably well than 45Hz boomily. After all, I will be getting a sub.

3. A large soundstage (by which I mean spatial coverage) is also good.

So relatively speaking, which one of these 3 speakers would you recommend?

Thanks for reading my really long post! I know I'm beginning to tire most of you out, but please indulge me .

The Axioms are a much brighter sounding speaker than the PSBs by a long shot. If you fatigue easily, they are not the speaker for you. The others I haven't heard so I cannot express my opnions on them.

 

[rnatalli]

As I said in your other post, buy a pair of both and see what happens. But based on your description here of what you want, Ascend is probably what you're looking for especially for something musical.

 

[AbyssalLoris]

Yeah, based on what I'm reading (here and elsewhere) the Axioms may not be what I like. I'm going to put them down the list.

The Ascends appear to fit my likes quite well, with the exception of cosmetics. I'm almost hoping someone will come along and tell me the Swans are equally good.

On that note, has anyone here heard the Swan Diva 2.1 at all? Seeking opinions on this model..

What would you say about a used Rocket RS250? There's one pair going for my price right now.

 

[rnatalli]

Ooops! The other post wasn't yours. Sorry... Soundman was looking at similar speakers.

The Rockets are great speakers and the ones I heard were pretty laid back, but to my ears, the Ascends sound better overall.

 

[AbyssalLoris]

I also looked at the Swans.

I had gone through your thread earlier but didn't realize it was you when you posted. We are looking at similar things, except that you are looking at a 5.1 package and are concerned about HT performance.

My belief is that if music performance is good, HT will follow. Of course, I understand that brighter speakers might do well at HT compared to warmer/laid back speakers, but when I'm watching a movie I doubt that I'm paying much critical attention to SQ. Lack of distortion/clipping and good frequency range helps, but tonality shouldn't be a big deal. Even if the difference is noticeable, I wouldn't mind it so much.

By the way I think the Swans you're looking at are different. There is a lot of mention about the Diva 5.1 everywhere, but I'm not finding much about the 2.1.

 

[Soundman]

I had gone through your thread earlier but didn't realize it was you when you posted. We are looking at similar things, except that you are looking at a 5.1 package and are concerned about HT performance.

My belief is that if music performance is good, HT will follow. Of course, I understand that brighter speakers might do well at HT compared to warmer/laid back speakers, but when I'm watching a movie I doubt that I'm paying much critical attention to SQ. Lack of distortion/clipping and good frequency range helps, but tonality shouldn't be a big deal. Even if the difference is noticeable, I wouldn't mind it so much.

By the way I think the Swans you're looking at are different. There is a lot of mention about the Diva 5.1 everywhere, but I'm not finding much about the 2.1.

You're right, for movies it's probably not as important. I do like nice dynamics for movies though. And I want something that's going to envelop me in the sound. I'm actually thinking now about doing Ascend 340SE's across the front and Axiom QS8's in the rears, since they use a quadpole design. Not sure though since those speakers are a lot different then the Ascends. As for the Swans, right again. I was looking at the 5.1bc and it is a larger speaker then the one you were looking at. But it's not much different in price compared to the 2.1, so if you do go for the Swans, I'd look at both of those. I do absolutely love the look of the Swans. I wish I could get that look with the Ascends. The Ascends will take up less space than a Swan tower though, not near as deep.

 

[bass addict]

Rockets are definitely a more laid back speaker. Compared to my M60's it was like a towel was thrown over the speaker, for lack of a better description. As someone else mentioned I would definitely demo them if you can and make your own decision. Most reputable speaker companies have an in home 30 day trial period. The reason I say this is everyone hears different things. I see some people make mention of Axiom's being bright. (I would classify a Klipsch as bright) They are not bright at all, just true to the source as I have mentioned. When listening to a poor CD master my M60's are very unforgiving. When throwing in a well mastered DVDA/SACD they are like butter. I personally would take a more "accurate" speaker any day then one that isn't. There are trade offs that have to be made. To sound good with all recording's good or bad the speaker has to be less "accurate". IMO take for example.

Between a 1-10 on a poor recording. Rocket 8 out of 10, Axiom 6.5 out of 10.
On an excellent recording. Rocket 8.5 out of 10, Axiom 9.5 out of 10. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

In HT listening I also noticed the Axioms also had a more forward (involving) soundstage than the Rockets.

 

[rnatalli]

If you like laid back sound, then rockets and ascends make more sense. If you like detailed and accurate, Axioms are great. I think I mentioned in your other post Mordaunts. They're definitely worth a listen. Mordaunts are detailed, refined speakers and are only a tad bright if it all. They're not fatiguing. I find mine provide a good mix between music and HT. There are a lot of good deals at tsto and ac4l for Mordaunts right now as well. The downside to Mordaunts is that they're tough speakers to drive so good, clean power is a must. They're also like Axioms that they don't forgive poorly recorded material, but I'd say they're not as unforgiving as Axioms.

To use bass addicts' system:

Poor recording: Mordaunts = 7.5-8
Excellent Recording: Mordaunts = 8.5-9

 

[Soundman]

If you like laid back sound, then rockets and ascends make more sense. If you like detailed and accurate, Axioms are great. I think I mentioned in your other post Mordaunts. They're definitely worth a listen. Mordaunts are detailed, refined speakers and are only a tad bright if it all. They're not fatiguing. I find mine provide a good mix between music and HT. There are a lot of good deals at tsto and ac4l for Mordaunts right now as well. The downside to Mordaunts is that they're tough speakers to drive so good, clean power is a must. They're also like Axioms that they don't forgive poorly recorded material, but I'd say they're not as unforgiving as Axioms.

To use bass addicts' system:

Poor recording: Mordaunts = 7.5-8
Excellent Recording: Mordaunts = 8.5-9

Wow! All this talk is making me want to go for the Axioms now. I'm going 80% HT probably. I'm thinking those M 60's would pair up pretty well with my LMCA-1/LPA-1. The Ascends are a bit cheaper though.

 

[rnatalli]

Wow! All this talk is making me want to go for the Axioms now. I'm going 80% HT probably. I'm thinking those M 60's would pair up pretty well with my LMCA-1/LPA-1. The Ascends are a bit cheaper though.

For 80% HT, Axioms probably make more sense. They're a bit on the bright side, but not like a Klipsch speaker. There's a large gap between the two. The Emotiva UL Combo would make Axioms scream.

 

[Soundman]

For 80% HT, Axioms probably make more sense. They're a bit on the bright side, but not like a Klipsch speaker. There's a large gap between the two. The Emotiva UL Combo would make Axioms scream.

what do you mean? Scream? do you mean harsh? or just loud?

 

[rnatalli]

what do you mean? Scream? do you mean harsh? or just loud?

Just loud and clear. And bass response on Axioms is pretty good too. I meant scream in a positive way

 

[Soundman]

Just loud and clear. And bass response on Axioms is pretty good too. I meant scream in a positive way

oh, good! For a minute there, I was like no way! and was going to just go with the ascends. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[mazersteven]

If you like laid back sound, then rockets and ascends make more sense. If you like detailed and accurate, Axioms are great.

Sounds like your saying the Ascend 340's are not "detailed, and accurate". IMO I feel this is the 340's strong point. The 340's will exceed your expectations.

 

[rnatalli]

Sounds like your saying the Ascend 340's are not "detailed, and accurate". IMO I feel this is the 340's strong point. The 340's will exceed your expectations.

Like all things, it's relative and of course very subjective. I'd say Axiom are a bit more detailed than Ascends, at least the ones I've heard. My Mordaunts are also pretty accurate and detailed, but I think Axioms still hold an edge.

AbyssalLoris and Soundman, like I said before, the best thing to do is buy a pair of each and see what you like best. It's worth the minimal shipping cost to return the losers.

 

[bass addict]

what do you mean? Scream? do you mean harsh? or just loud?

What size room are these going in? You mention bookshelves in your original post but now you are looking at M60's. What is your main goal?