listen to JAZZ!

[j_garcia]

I read an interesting article that said jazz is more popular outside of the US. Using Japan as an example, where jazz is apparently around 20% of the market vs about 3-5% in the US, the article cited the fact that the listeners mostly did not understand the lyrics so the vocals become simply another instrument and music is appreciated for the overall presentation. For me, if the MUSIC doesn't get me interested, it doesn't matter what the lyrics are saying; at the same time, I don't need great lyrics if the music is solid because the lyrics take a secondary importance to me. I enjoy deep lyrics as much as the next person, but I don't feel that lyrics make or break what is trying to be conveyed; at least not for something like Jazz.

 

[stratman]

I read an interesting article that said jazz is more popular outside of the US. Using Japan as an example, where jazz is apparently around 20% of the market vs about 3-5% in the US, the article cited the fact that the listeners mostly did not understand the lyrics so the vocals become simply another instrument and music is appreciated for the overall presentation. For me, if the MUSIC doesn't get me interested, it doesn't matter what the lyrics are saying; at the same time, I don't need great lyrics if the music is solid because the lyrics take a secondary importance to me. I enjoy deep lyrics as much as the next person, but I don't feel that lyrics make or break what is trying to be conveyed; at least not for something like Jazz.

So is salsa. With jazz specially instrumental it takes listener participation. I gather you're more melodious, ditto here.

 

[audiofox]

Another big jazz fan here. On the live music front, I managed to see Sonny Rollins and Dave Brubeck in the last year-both concerts were superlative. I hope they are around a bit longer for some more great concerts, but given their ages, these concerts were a must-see for me. I tend toward 50s bebop and some 70s fusion (Mahavishnu Orch is one of my faves), but I have not found too many jazz recordings that I didn't like in some way.

 

[Starmax]

Jazz was mainstream - and hugely so - before rock and roll. It was biggest during the peak of Swing before WWII, but was on the charts regularly into the 50s. Even the advanced bop music of Parker and Gillespie was quite popular, was showcased on early TV shows in the 50s, etc. Brubeck managed to sell quite a lot of records even in the early 60s. Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, Weather Report, and others had Gold records in the 70s.

Lots of post-swing Jazz does require more of a listener investment and often isn't even meant to have mainstream appeal, but the idea that the language of Jazz is inaccessible to the masses is flatly contradicted by history!

Good point, I forgot about WWII jazz - Big Band/Swing - which of course was dominant back then. I was questioning the impact "marketing" would have had on post-swing Jazz on mainstream listening habits because of the nature of the beast. It's hard to imagine the music of Brubeck, Davis, Parker, etc. would ever match rock & roll's popularity with huge numbers of people, and I don't think it ever presumed to. For me it's not as social as rock & roll. I like to listen to it (jazz) in a darkened room, with or without other people around, but no chattering allowed, cause it ain't background music! Compare that with most rock songs, which create a party atmosphere.

 

[jaxvon]

Good point, I forgot about WWII jazz - Big Band/Swing - which of course was dominant back then. I was questioning the impact "marketing" would have had on post-swing Jazz on mainstream listening habits because of the nature of the beast. It's hard to imagine the music of Brubeck, Davis, Parker, etc. would ever match rock & roll's popularity with huge numbers of people, and I don't think it ever presumed to. For me it's not as social as rock & roll. I like to listen to it (jazz) in a darkened room, with or without other people around, but no chattering allowed, cause it ain't background music! Compare that with most rock songs, which create a party atmosphere.

That's how I listen to my Steely Dan albums (and good jazz), but then, Steely Dan isn't quite Rock 'n Roll.

 

[Starmax]

That's how I listen to my Steely Dan albums (and good jazz), but then, Steely Dan isn't quite Rock 'n Roll.

Yeah, Steely Dan is half rock & roll and half jazz.

Zhimbo, not to belabor the point or sound overly defensive, but I never said the language of jazz was inaccessible to the masses. My point was that in a head to head popularity contest, rock & roll would beat out jazz every time, regardless of marketing.

 

[stratman]

Aaah Steely Dan, how can you go wrong? Wayne Shorter (Miles sax king) played with them on AJA, you're correct they're a hybrid, but they have connections to the past through the musicians that played with the old legends and contributed to their albums over the years.

 

[Starmax]

Aaah Steely Dan, how can you go wrong? Wayne Shorter (Miles sax king) played with them on AJA, you're correct they're a hybrid, but they have connections to the past through the musicians that played with the old legends and contributed to their albums over the years.

The problem with Steely Dan is that they need to make more music! It's like they were a music making machine for years, and then the flow turned into a trickle. I want to hear more!!!

 

[zhimbo]

Zhimbo, not to belabor the point or sound overly defensive, but I never said the language of jazz was inaccessible to the masses.

No, you didn't, but heck, I'm not going to let that get in the way of a good rant!

 

[Starmax]

No, you didn't, but heck, I'm not going to let that get in the way of a good rant!

lol...Yeah, I'm with you on that one! Sometimes you have to stretch someone's words just a little in order to squeeze off a good rant.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

That's how I listen to my Steely Dan albums (and good jazz), but then, Steely Dan isn't quite Rock 'n Roll.

That's how I listen to all of my music. Music, to me, is a "destination activity" as opposed to being a background for doing other things. (In fact, if I am focusing my attention on something else, I prefer not to have music playing.)

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I am getting tired of certain words being automatically converted into advertising links every time I type them!

 

[Starmax]

I am getting tired of certain words being automatically converted into advertising links every time I type them!

Hey, the guys running this site need to eat too!

I'm with you on your listening habits. Maybe it's because I'm such a poor multi-tasker I can't listen to music and work/drive/talk/think at the same time. Whatever the case, I usually find myself listening alone, because most people don't seem to be able to sit still quietly for more than 30 seconds. Invariably, they want me to turn the music down so they can say something!

 

[Gov]

I am a HUGE Steely Dan fan and "smooth" jazz fan. I have been listening to "smooth" jazz for about 17 years or so. Some of my favs are: Special Efx, Cheili Minucci, The Rippingtons, Al Di Meola, Norman Brown, Foreplay etc etc. I think this genre of music is extreamely underrated and not understood by most casual listeners. Now, WE NEED MORE OF THIS MUSIC ON DVD-A AND SACD!!!!!!!

 

[stratman]

The problem with Steely Dan is that they need to make more music! It's like they were a music making machine for years, and then the flow turned into a trickle. I want to hear more!!!

Fagen got a bad episode of writer's block after The Nightfly, Kamakiriad was his return to writing and recording, if you've ever seen an interview with him he's kinda introverted and geeky (I guess most geniuses are), he's not the "rock star" persona, to be frank I don't know if we would be happy with the Dan popping out a CD so often, their music is so demanding that to hurry the process would probably spoil it. I really wasn't sooooo impressed with Morph The Cat.

 

[Starmax]

Fagen got a bad episode of writer's block after The Nightfly, Kamakiriad was his return to writing and recording, if you've ever seen an interview with him he's kinda introverted and geeky (I guess most geniuses are), he's not the "rock star" persona, to be frank I don't know if we would be happy with the Dan popping out a CD so often, their music is so demanding that to hurry the process would probably spoil it. I really wasn't sooooo impressed with Morph The Cat.

Kamakiriad (I'll be you had to look that spelling up!) was nowhere near as good as The Nightfly, although it's pretty damn good! And I totally agree with you, Morph the Cat was disappointing. I rarely listen to it. I'm sure creative energy has a limited lifespan...just ask the Beatles. The pressure to crank out one inspired song after another takes its toll after awhile. Fagan and Becker ARE geeky. If they were cool and studly, I'm sure they'd have spent their energy on something other than their art, so long live geeks! I'm just whining that their creative well has run a bit dry. Why does it have to be that way?

 

[stratman]

Kamakiriad (I'll be you had to look that spelling up!) was nowhere near as good as The Nightfly, although it's pretty damn good! And I totally agree with you, Morph the Cat was disappointing. I rarely listen to it. I'm sure creative energy has a limited lifespan...just ask the Beatles. The pressure to crank out one inspired song after another takes its toll after awhile. Fagan and Becker ARE geeky. If they were cool and studly, I'm sure they'd have spent their energy on something other than their art, so long live geeks! I'm just whining that their creative well has run a bit dry. Why does it have to be that way?

Ah my friend this is what makes good music so elusive, it can't be manufactured like the bubble gum pop, flavor of the month, diarrhea in your ears that passes itself as music, no, this good stuff like a good wine needs to mature, it's very hard coming up with good material and even harder to come up with material that will turn into a classic. I'm hoping their soon to be effort redeems them somewhat. Two Against Nature will eventually be ranked up there with AJA and Gaucho, their best work ever.

 

[Starmax]

"Two Against Nature" is right up there among Steely Dan's best. It's consistent all the way through...not a weak cut on the album. IMO it's slightly better than "Everything Must Go", another super-strong collection of songs (be sure to check out the 20 minute video of their taxi ride through Las Vegas on it, on DVD-A, which is basically a sly and entertaining plug for the album!). However, I have a sneaking suspicion that if "Countdown to Ecstasy" (with Bodhisattva, Razor Boy, My Old School, Your Gold Teeth, etc.) were ever released in a high-rez format, it might become my favorite. Steely Dan is like a bag of potato chips, it's really hard to just eat one!

 

[Starmax]

If there is one stinky song that SD has done ( and every band has at least one) in my opinion it would have to be "Pearl of the Quarter" on the "Countdown" CD. You know, the one with the refrain "Voulez voulez voulez vous." I'm sorry, but yuk!

 

[jaxvon]

If there is one stinky song that SD has done ( and every band has at least one) in my opinion it would have to be "Pearl of the Quarter" on the "Countdown" CD. You know, the one with the refrain "Voulez voulez voulez vous." I'm sorry, but yuk!

Oh cmon! Denny Dias has some nice pedal steel work on that song. And besides, who couldn't love yet another song about a whore? That's what most of their songs are about anyways, whores and drugs.

As for me, my favorite album is Aja, but each of them has a different feel that speaks to me depending on the mood. Katy Lied is a real treasure, and Royal Scam is disturbingly dark.